Have you every cracked-out a coin and resubmitted it raw for re-grading? (a blind raw resubmission)
islemangu
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Have you ever wondered about the accuracy of population data for rarer issues (<100 listed pop for the grade) being skewed by past blind raw resubmissions?
In a recent discussion with an active collector at the registry set level, this question arose because they mentioned that they had at least once cracked out and resubmitted a raw coin in an attempt to assure complete objectivity at the grading company.
The label generated from the crack-out was either kept or lost while not (yet) informing the grading company. This would seem to skew the grading company’s population data to be higher than reality. Has anyone else perhaps done the same?
The image is just a quick search example I found from a member who seems to not completely trust the grading companies’ internal protocols of checks and balances to assure objectivity.
Comments
I've never (yet) cracked and resubmitted a coin to the same TPG, with CAC in the game I see no reason to do that. But I know that it is done often and that is why the pop reports are so bloated and mostly useless.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I have done it a few times but the coins were all "common" so there was no big impact on the populations. An example was an 1881-S Morgan where I was looking for a color bump. One of them went from 65 to 66 at NGC, which I did not think would impact the populations significantly if NGC did not get the label back.
I’ve haven’t yet cracked a coin and resubmitted it raw. But I have one I’m debating doing this to—has a couple small spots I could kill with acetone, and I think it has a decent chance of upgrading.
I have however crossed a handful of coins, and I still have the labels that were returned to me post crossover. So that will skew pops until I get those labels mailed in.
Its not just resubmissions - Ive cracked out hundreds of coins in the past to put into albums. Some of the certs i dropped off with NGC and PCGS at a large show, but most of them I just threw out.
I did it a few times when I was a dealer. My record was 100% over a small number. They all ended in up grades.
I have attempted very few crossovers or resubmissions.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I bought a coin once that had taken me years to find. An 1868 $.50 in MS66. The pop said it was a pop 11/1 or 12/1 (I don't exactly remember) so one should be able to find it occasion. One finally came up at auction after a 10 year search and I bought it knowing that the coin above it was one of the other MS66's. I did further research through auction archives and found it was a POP 1/1 coin. So I got the evidence together, sent it to PCGS and they adjusted the POP to be 1/1. Yes, the POP's on some rare coins are skewed because that MS67, formally an MS66 coin had been cracked 9 times. It turned out that both my MS66 and the now MS67 had originally been sent in together.
I wonder if AI will soon flag these, where the new pic matches with an old one and says, hey future buyer, this thing was once tagged as details, now it's straight graded, but just FYI this thing is borderline. As a buyer I'd sure want that info.
Another story. I got an MS66 PQ NGC 11-D Saint that I thought could 67. I cracked it sent it to PCGS and it came back a 65, I cracked it again, MS66. When CAC came around I sent it to CAC and it green beaned. So PCGS had given an MS65 to a CAC MS66.
You would need the pictures to be taken in very similar styles for this to have a chance of working. If you have one of the TrueView photos from recent times, AI might think it’s a completely different coin.
In 2007 I helped a good VAM friend and dealer who, as a result of sending thousands of coins to ANACS, had a couple of hundred in "details" holders of all dates and grades. We cracked them out, put them in flips, and showed them to another dealer friend whom we admired for his coin grading "eye". Plus, we felt he had a strong feel for what one of the other Big 3 grading companies would and wouldn't accept.
He recommended 88 for us to send in.
The result -- 66 came back straight-graded.
A couple went from MS60 details to MS64.
Nearly all of the coins we thought were called cleaned because of dipping, straight-graded.
Nearly every circulated coin came back at the same "details" grade it originally had.
Six coins that had been given "details" for being scratched, straight-graded... and then later crossed at the other Big 3 grading company.
Been tempted but never pulled the trigger, fwiw
I cracked an NGC VF30 1872-cc quarter. I paid between F15 and VF20 money for it and thought it was a solid 20.
Very disappointed when it came back PCGS F15, so I cracked it and it came back VF20. Huge price difference between 15 and 20. The second trueview is the more accurate of the two.
Same
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My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
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It's hard to believe that's the same coin. Amazing the difference a picture can make in detail and contrast. I like the second phot despite the 'yellowing' effect.
I don’t know about top 100 but there are plenty in the modern Kennedy series where all three plate coins are the same. Sometimes graded the same sometimes upgraded to a plus or eight.
I know that doesn’t speak to whether or not the coin was cracked out, but it certainly feeds the notion.