Should finger prints take points off?
Morgan13
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I am not sure if they do or not. Can they be removed?
I am sure it's been discussed in the past but some of don't like it when an old post gets dug up.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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Fingerprints take points off so far as I'm concerned.
You can only remove fingerprints if you catch them almost as soon as they happen. If they have worked their way into the metal, it's too late.
Yes
If it blends well with the surfaces or toning no IMO. If it's obviously there on a blast white coin then yes, it should count against the grade.
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
I’m not sure of actual TPG policy on this; it may vary from one to another. Or, degree of the fingerprint.
A couple years ago I straight crossed a NGC FE variety in 66 to PCGS. When I submitted, I was prepared they would give it a 65 due to an obvious fingerprint. They gave it a 66. That’s the only anecdotal evidence I have.
Here’s the coin:
IMO, though, a fingerprint should be a deduction.
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Do fingerprints change a coin's grade?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13759524#Comment_13759524
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Is eye-appeal still a market grading factor for mint state coins? The same question could be asked about ugly toning and heavy planchet adjust marks on early US coins.
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I have owned 2 heavily toned Seated Halves that had fingerprints lost in the toning. They were both circulated coins that were slabbed at what I considered the correct grade. i felt the finger prints were neutral all things considered. I have seen finger prints on bright shiny coins, in particular MS Dollars and the appearance there is very distracting. I would not buy an MS coin with obvious finger print marks. just me. James
For me, yes, too.
Fingerprints are a substantial impairment. This is an area where it seems that there was more agreement years ago.
No but there are limitations that fall well within the subjectivity of grading.
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Depends on the coin and the buyer/seller. I will discount heavily any coin with fingerprints as a buyer, and in recent years will dismiss all but a very few as potential collection additions. I really hate fingerprints and spots on coins. At a TPG it can affect the grade if it negatively affects the eye appeal, but this is a very subjective area under market grading.
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Fingerprints can affect eye appeal and eye appeal can be a major component of the final grade.
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In the case of an uncirculated coin, fingerprints are the result of oils reacting with the metal surface, and as a result the coins shouldn't be considered "mint state".
In the world of coin grading, the term “mint state” isn’t used synonymously with “uncirculated”. But rather, it’s applied to coins that are graded 60 or higher, regardless of whether they’ve actually circulated.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Fingerprints are very distracting to me. I have seen some that are very minor and you can barely see them in hand, but others are blatantly obvious. The latter are the type that I avoid. Not sure if they affect grade, but I believe that they should.
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I suspect that many fingerprints we see on slabbed coins weren't visible at the time of slabbing. Many years ago there were two problems encountered by submitters to PCGS, coins which had light scratches that submitters claimed weren't there when mailed, coins that returned with fingerprints.
If fingerprints hurt midgrade coins, this XF40 with what looks like wall-to-wall fingerprints would grade VG.
They certainly do for me.
DOG acolyte
They reduce the sellers offer if any. Sort of like unattractive toning. If this is a take it all group of coins the offer will be discounted accordingly. They might just put zero on the offer calculation spreadsheet if problem coin. That way the offer line for a crap piece (collection, estate) zero so not to worry. Then once estate or collection acquired they just start just the crud coins at 99c in auction just let them rip. Then take that money - party time. The serious stuff (coins that made the team) goes to retail stock.
I wanted to raise the question because I have seen many coins with fingerprints in high grades on coinfacts using the pcgs app.
Some of them really surprised me. I wonder if the can be conserved or if they are etched in the coin permanently.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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I don't think a fingerprint is necessarily problematic for grading purposes, unless is significantly impacts eye appeal.
Here's a MS62 CAC half:
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I concur with this theory. I once owned an ICCS-graded Canadian half dollar, which for those unfamiliar with ICCS holders, is "encapsulated" in a sealed inert flip inside of another sealed flip. I removed it from the holder to put in an album, and within the space of a year a baked-in fingerprint began to emerge on the obverse once it was exposed to the air again. I had to dump the coin at a loss.
I guess it would depend on how the print blends in with its surroundings. This particular Seated half appears to have benefited from some fortuitous blending. I'd be willing to bet that it would be one or two points higher without the fingerprints.
Yes, as others have said the prints are typically etched into the metal, especially if they've been there a long time.
I do believe it can affect a coin's eye appeal but that is a tiny sliver of the overall grade composition so in most cases won't affect the grade but it will affect the value and marketability.
http://ProofCollection.Net
This was one of the first coins I bought when I resumed collecting. The dealer told me it was a great coin. Not knowing better I thought it was part of the design element. PCGS64,
A Catamount in Tall Grass.
Wonder if it will qualify for a CAC, fingerprint and all.
I don’t normally like coins with fingerprints. I do have one that I did purposefully buy because of the print. It’s not for everyone but I thought it was very cool.
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Yes
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A fingerprint for me at least changes the coins value.
Here’s a recent pickup of mine. A two-year Type coin, with the 1836 costing about eight times more than this 1837. For 1837, there are 193 in this MS64 grade (91 by PCGS and 102 by NGC). Of those 193, only 37 have a CAC sticker.
Comments?
Steve
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To me those prints are insignificant. I’d be real happy with that coin.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I bought this coin from NJCoinCrank in 2012. I liked the coin a lot but the fingerprint bothered me and it eventually personified one of the Coinguy1 Coin Collecting Tips:
"If something about a coin bothers you now, there is an excellent chance it will bother you as much or more later. "
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
IMO depends on Who's finger prints...what if like Ben Franklin touched one of his 50c pieces inappropriately in a Bill & Ted movie?
That wouldn’t bother me! That’s a beauty!!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
That finger print makes the Lion/Panther/Cougar/Jaguar/Puma cat thingy look like it's hunting prey through thick jungle grass in Peru...RAWR!! +Grade IMO!
That finger print makes the Lion/Panther/Cougar/Jaguar/Puma cat thingy look like it's hunting prey through thick jungle grass in Peru...RAWR!! +Grade IMO!
Yes, but that's only after you own it. When you are a buyer, it's a fingerprint.
There are examples of very light fingerprints shown here, which impair the coins little, if any, in most opinions. Does anyone think that heavy fingerprints don't matter?
It depends. For me, it makes a significant (negative) difference on a high-grade, uncirculated coin. For lower-grade, circulated coins it has less of an impact.
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@Vorpaledged . True about who. I forgot i once won a coin from the Jules Reiver collection. I of course had no proof it was Reiver's finger print but then prove it wasn't. James
Found this article about 'eye appeal' on the PCGS website. Thought it might be of interest to others, so I am sharing it.
If I read it correctly:
~ there are "minimum standards" for 'eye appeal' on high grades (e.g., MS/PR 68 must have "positive" eye appeal);
~ an very favorable assessment of 'eye appeal' can add up to a full point to the "technical grade" (i.e., "amazing");
~ and, a very unfavorable assessment of 'eye appeal' can subtract up to two points from the "technical grade" (i.e., "ugly").
FWIW, there was no specific mention of fingerprints.
This one has a print near the date that is slightly more apparent in hand than the photo shows:
But PCGS still gave it a 65:
As a raw coin my cost was <$200 from a wholesale guy, so even if I have to “start it at 99 cents and let er rip” I should be ok.
A friend picks up finger print coins all the time. Usually at discounts for his good, the bad, and ugly collection. Good, = A,B Bad = C Coins, Ugly is problem material.
Would this print bother you?
I don't think a print should bring a coins grade down.
That one would bother me a little more, because it’s in a prime focal area, It’s larger in size and isn’t concealed by or mixed with toning. Still a nice Coin until a better one comes along…
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
No.
Now this is a fingerprint! I still could not resist buying it. PF63RB
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I believe this is the only coin I own with a fingerprint. It doesn't bother me.
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Funny how it's only the people, that have coins with finger prints, that like finger prints!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
My comment is that I'm glad you like it, it would not be for me with that print; sticker or not.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Obviously they wouldn’t have bought the coin if they don’t like fingerprints. Lol.
It's like dating a good looking women but she has a bunch of young, screaming kids. If ya want it bad enough you'll put up with the inconveniences!
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