@dsessom said:
On a side note... If you ever ship a gold or silver coin (gold especially!), wrap it in aluminum foil! Why? Because thieves at shipping companies use hand held metal detectors that indicate what type metal is in a box or package. If you wrap your coin in aluminum foil, all they detect is aluminum. Thieves are not interested in aluminum.
Unfortunately they know that. Now those who know, when their metal detectors register aluminum it = gold. And who ships aluminum anyway except for manufacturing ones. I'd look to other options. As we saw with someone reporting an aluminum wrapped group of common clad dollars getting to PCGS broken open.
That PCGS package seemed to be accidental opening not intentional. Nothing was missing.
Nope that small flat rate box was slit open with a box cutter or knife. It was taped shut and nothing missing. I read that USPS can inspect everything BUT first class without a warrant. Up to 20% can go past drug dogs or through x-ray looking for prohibited items not declared (drugs, ammunition, lithium batteries...). If it was damaged in machines and found open, I would probably have gotten a notice like this one I got last week.
Whether inspected or accidentally opened, it wasn't opened by a thief.
Or opened by a thief that didn't want any of what was there. The independent contractors or USPS employees must realize there is always the possibility of being caught so they must have sort of 'selection' criteria.
I do get concerned whenever a package takes longer to get from one hub to the next than it should have.
@jdimmick said:
We got thieves in the distribution center here locally, the post office, knows, the post master knows it, but yet nothing is done. they say they cant pin em down. Numerous packages of mine have been stolen the past 6 months
You should hide a small tracker or camera in your package. See if you can bring some proof to the postmaster.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
@jdimmick said:
We got thieves in the distribution center here locally, the post office, knows, the post master knows it, but yet nothing is done. they say they cant pin em down. Numerous packages of mine have been stolen the past 6 months
You should hide a small tracker or camera in your package. See if you can bring some proof to the postmaster.
I put an AirTag in there above a certain threshold, can track it cross country.
@davewesen said:
Or opened by a thief that didn't want any of what was there. The independent contractors or USPS employees must realize there is always the possibility of being caught so they must have sort of 'selection' criteria.
I do get concerned whenever a package takes longer to get from one hub to the next than it should have.
They left coins and then taped up the package again????
I shipped a coin to my friend in LA last Saturday (he received it today). He asked me to ship FedEx two days instead of USPS priority small box. FedEx cost me $39.14, $26 more than USPS.
@jdimmick said:
We got thieves in the distribution center here locally, the post office, knows, the post master knows it, but yet nothing is done. they say they cant pin em down. Numerous packages of mine have been stolen the past 6 months
You should hide a small tracker or camera in your package. See if you can bring some proof to the postmaster.
I put an AirTag in there above a certain threshold, can track it cross country.
@jdimmick said:
We got thieves in the distribution center here locally, the post office, knows, the post master knows it, but yet nothing is done. they say they cant pin em down. Numerous packages of mine have been stolen the past 6 months
You should hide a small tracker or camera in your package. See if you can bring some proof to the postmaster.
I put an AirTag in there above a certain threshold, can track it cross country.
How well does this work Dan?
Works fantastic when I used it, you check its location in “find my” like you see where your other devices are. $25 for exponential peace of mind.
Any recommendations for this type of insurance(shipping expensive valuables/coins)?
Thanks
It depends how often you ship and what the typical value is. Many collectors could get away with shipandinsure, but they recently decreased the usps priority limit to 5k. If you ship frequently or high value, Hugh wood hands down. Most people get a Hugh wood policy that covers their coins at their home or sdb, traveling on your person, and during shipping. They have collector rates for ANA members and it’s very affordable.
Shipandinsure seems to work for many people, but the rates can add up quickly if you ship often, and the HW policy would be much more value overall, likely paying for itself. I hope everyone knows they reduced their limits on certain services at the beginning of this year. If you read between the lines, this indirectly tells you which service they’re having the most trouble with lately…and vice versa.
Air tags work great if you can tuck them so they are not findable... Milwaukee (The tool company) makes a type of airtag and I put them in my Graco air sprayer... It was stolen from my truck... Was able to track it to a pawn shop months later.
The tags work as long as they are hidden.
Also saves on the emotions and collateral damage when coins go missing and you think you are going to lose coins that are bordereline no replaceable...
I'm a modest seller/shipper with random eBay sales of $500-5000 throughout the year.
Every few months I'll ship out a 5-$10,000 TPG submission.
It sounds like Shipandinsure is a good fit?
However, my curiosity was piqued when you mention... " Hugh wood policy that "covers their coins at their home or sdb", traveling on your person, and during shipping"...
I guess I'll have a look and see what that's all about!
I'm a modest seller/shipper with random eBay sales of $500-5000 throughout the year.
Every few months I'll ship out a 5-$10,000 TPG submission.
It sounds like Shipandinsure is a good fit?
However, my curiosity was piqued when you mention... " Hugh wood policy that "covers their coins at their home or sdb", traveling on your person, and during shipping"...
I guess I'll have a look and see what that's all about!
Much appreciated for everyone's input!
I would contact Hugh wood and get a quote, then I would estimate total insurance costs annually using shipandinsure and compare the two to see what’s the better value. I would love to use shipandinsure for just shipping, but I need the storage and the carry insurance for shows. I’ve also heard Gallagher is pretty good and I plan to get a quote from them as well, if you send me a message I’ll share my contacts with you.
"Ship and Insure" is more onerous than Hugh Wood; they require you to ship a box in a box and enter all details of each shipment on the day you ship it into their system.
@dsessom said:
On a side note... If you ever ship a gold or silver coin (gold especially!), wrap it in aluminum foil! Why? Because thieves at shipping companies use hand held metal detectors that indicate what type metal is in a box or package. If you wrap your coin in aluminum foil, all they detect is aluminum. Thieves are not interested in aluminum.
Unfortunately they know that. Now those who know, when their metal detectors register aluminum it = gold. And who ships aluminum anyway except for manufacturing ones. I'd look to other options. As we saw with someone reporting an aluminum wrapped group of common clad dollars getting to PCGS broken open.
This seems like an enormous amount of fear mongering. Thieves at shipping companies routinely have hand held metal detectors and regularly steal packages that contain metal?
Also, they have metal detectors that can tell the difference between silver, gold, and aluminum.
ALSO, they particularly like stealing the packages containing aluminum because they think it's a high indicator for containing gold/silver.
All of that seems EXTREMELY far fetched.
My point is that wrapping valuable coins in aluminum is not going to fool anyone. If potential thieves have hand-held metal detectors then a relatively light package that comes up showing "aluminum" would be a tip-off that someone is using foil to throw off the scent. The only aluminum item that is light is foil, and people don't ship aluminum foil except to cover something up. This is an example of confirmation bias, that if you wrap your coins in aluminum and you have no thefts, then therefore it was because of the aluminum foil that the package did not become a target.
I know many have had good experiences with Hugh Wood, but I found them difficult to deal with when trying to obtain policy quotes. Emails went completely unanswered, or I had to reply 2-3x to get a reply. It seemed like they did not care about getting my business at all, and I worried how they’d be in a claim, so I went with a policy elsewhere.
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
Not OP, but my inbound gold coin that went MIA a week ago still hasn’t surfaced. And a return shipment leaving CAC in NJ today was flagged with a “regional weather delay” exception—for what weather exactly, I ask?
My subs are headed to Bedminster. Yesterday I received the same "Regional Weather Delay" while the box sits in Pittsburgh. Maybe an unknown Nor'easter moved to the left and became a Nor'wester.
@dsessom said:
On a side note... If you ever ship a gold or silver coin (gold especially!), wrap it in aluminum foil! Why? Because thieves at shipping companies use hand held metal detectors that indicate what type metal is in a box or package. If you wrap your coin in aluminum foil, all they detect is aluminum. Thieves are not interested in aluminum.
Unfortunately they know that. Now those who know, when their metal detectors register aluminum it = gold. And who ships aluminum anyway except for manufacturing ones. I'd look to other options. As we saw with someone reporting an aluminum wrapped group of common clad dollars getting to PCGS broken open.
This seems like an enormous amount of fear mongering. Thieves at shipping companies routinely have hand held metal detectors and regularly steal packages that contain metal?
Also, they have metal detectors that can tell the difference between silver, gold, and aluminum.
ALSO, they particularly like stealing the packages containing aluminum because they think it's a high indicator for containing gold/silver.
All of that seems EXTREMELY far fetched.
My point is that wrapping valuable coins in aluminum is not going to fool anyone. If potential thieves have hand-held metal detectors then a relatively light package that comes up showing "aluminum" would be a tip-off that someone is using foil to throw off the scent. The only aluminum item that is light is foil, and people don't ship aluminum foil except to cover something up. This is an example of confirmation bias, that if you wrap your coins in aluminum and you have no thefts, then therefore it was because of the aluminum foil that the package did not become a target.
And I think that any mainstream shipping service has a huge amount of package flow and some surveillance. It is beyond unlikely that there are employees constantly sitting there scanning packages and pocketing them based on scan results on a frequent basis.
I am not saying there is no package theft but, without bias, the reason most packages don't get stolen is because not many packages get stolen.
I don't know if this is a comprehensive list, and I'm sure there are plenty of losses that were not reported, but it's all I could find. Currently at NCIC (https://numismaticcrimes.org/category/ncic-alerts/), dating back to 1/1/24, there are 12 listed stolen shipments. That's one per month. How many numismatic packages are shipped per month? It must be at least tens of thousands but probably well into the hundreds of thousands.
It is a matter of trust… and time. Once items leave my hands in the proper packaging and labeling , and they’re out of my control. Then my hope is the delivery personnel are competent, diligent and honest , and that they’re equitably paid. For the most part all systems are go. We all have different experiences but missing packages are a pain. i recently heard from a friend who lost his luggage while flying . He said he could see right where his bags were (thanks to trackers) but he had no way of getting the airlines to track his bag. Months had passed and i’ll have to ask if he ever got it back. How long do the batteries last in a tracking device ? Sorry to go off topic. Glad to see the problem resolved.
@dsessom said:
On a side note... If you ever ship a gold or silver coin (gold especially!), wrap it in aluminum foil! Why? Because thieves at shipping companies use hand held metal detectors that indicate what type metal is in a box or package. If you wrap your coin in aluminum foil, all they detect is aluminum. Thieves are not interested in aluminum.
Unfortunately they know that. Now those who know, when their metal detectors register aluminum it = gold. And who ships aluminum anyway except for manufacturing ones. I'd look to other options. As we saw with someone reporting an aluminum wrapped group of common clad dollars getting to PCGS broken open.
This seems like an enormous amount of fear mongering. Thieves at shipping companies routinely have hand held metal detectors and regularly steal packages that contain metal?
Also, they have metal detectors that can tell the difference between silver, gold, and aluminum.
ALSO, they particularly like stealing the packages containing aluminum because they think it's a high indicator for containing gold/silver.
All of that seems EXTREMELY far fetched.
My point is that wrapping valuable coins in aluminum is not going to fool anyone. If potential thieves have hand-held metal detectors then a relatively light package that comes up showing "aluminum" would be a tip-off that someone is using foil to throw off the scent. The only aluminum item that is light is foil, and people don't ship aluminum foil except to cover something up. This is an example of confirmation bias, that if you wrap your coins in aluminum and you have no thefts, then therefore it was because of the aluminum foil that the package did not become a target.
And I think that any mainstream shipping service has a huge amount of package flow and some surveillance. It is beyond unlikely that there are employees constantly sitting there scanning packages and pocketing them based on scan results on a frequent basis.
I am not saying there is no package theft but, without bias, the reason most packages don't get stolen is because not many packages get stolen.
I don't know if this is a comprehensive list, and I'm sure there are plenty of losses that were not reported, but it's all I could find. Currently at NCIC (https://numismaticcrimes.org/category/ncic-alerts/), dating back to 1/1/24, there are 12 listed stolen shipments. That's one per month. How many numismatic packages are shipped per month? It must be at least tens of thousands but probably well into the hundreds of thousands.
I'll take my chances.
Heritage and GC alone send a couple thousand per WEEK. So it is well into the hundreds of thousands. NGC and PCGS get probably close to a million packages between them, coming and going.
To your point, most theft is probably due to convenience not package research.
@johnny010 I am really happy to hear that this turned out well for you, except for the signature confirmation part. It is very stressful when you are talking that kind of money.
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
I know many have had good experiences with Hugh Wood, but I found them difficult to deal with when trying to obtain policy quotes. Emails went completely unanswered, or I had to reply 2-3x to get a reply. It seemed like they did not care about getting my business at all, and I worried how they’d be in a claim, so I went with a policy elsewhere.
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
I know many have had good experiences with Hugh Wood, but I found them difficult to deal with when trying to obtain policy quotes. Emails went completely unanswered, or I had to reply 2-3x to get a reply. It seemed like they did not care about getting my business at all, and I worried how they’d be in a claim, so I went with a policy elsewhere.
@divecchia said: @johnny010 I am really happy to hear that this turned out well for you, except for the signature confirmation part. It is very stressful when you are talking that kind of money.
Donato
Thank you
The post office delivery driver left the package on the front porch even though it’s signed confirmation. I blame myself for that though because we gave him a Christmas tip for always taking good care of us.
With regards to insurance, I had Hugh Wood but was told as a collector my only option for shipping was USPS registered. I let my policy expire because I refuse to ship with them. When I asked if I could use FedEx the reply was that option is only for dealers.
@logger7 said:
My point is that wrapping valuable coins in aluminum is not going to fool anyone. If potential thieves have hand-held metal detectors then a relatively light package that comes up showing "aluminum" would be a tip-off that someone is using foil to throw off the scent. The only aluminum item that is light is foil, and people don't ship aluminum foil except to cover something up. This is an example of confirmation bias, that if you wrap your coins in aluminum and you have no thefts, then therefore it was because of the aluminum foil that the package did not become a target.
...and you would be absolutely 100% incorrect. I have known several individuals who worked for USPS and FedEx that told me they have seen employees fired for using hand held metal detectors. You have to understand how this all works. They are not examining individual boxes in their hand. They are standing beside a conveyor belt with packages whizzing by, and holding the hand held detector over the moving packages. The aluminum does indeed mask gold and silver coins. I have tried it using a cheap hand held detector bought from Amazon, and the aluminum created a faraday cage which did in fact mask the gold exceptionally well.
I am simply trying to give you guys and gals some solid advice. If you want to ignore it, fine. You want to doubt it? Be my guest!
It's just cheap way to add another layer of protection. That's all.
Best regards, Dwayne F. Sessom Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
@divecchia said: @johnny010 I am really happy to hear that this turned out well for you, except for the signature confirmation part. It is very stressful when you are talking that kind of money.
Donato
Thank you
The post office delivery driver left the package on the front porch even though it’s signed confirmation. I blame myself for that though because we gave him a Christmas tip for always taking good care of us.
With regards to insurance, I had Hugh Wood but was told as a collector my only option for shipping was USPS registered. I let my policy expire because I refuse to ship with them. When I asked if I could use FedEx the reply was that option is only for dealers.
Have you opened the package and everything there? or are you still in Chicago?
@jdimmick said:
We got thieves in the distribution center here locally, the post office, knows, the post master knows it, but yet nothing is done. they say they cant pin em down. Numerous packages of mine have been stolen the past 6 months
You must be living deep in some isolated neck of the woods to keep dropping off packages there!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
@jdimmick said:
We got thieves in the distribution center here locally, the post office, knows, the post master knows it, but yet nothing is done. they say they cant pin em down. Numerous packages of mine have been stolen the past 6 months
You should hide a small tracker or camera in your package. See if you can bring some proof to the postmaster.
I put an AirTag in there above a certain threshold, can track it cross country.
How well does this work Dan?
Works fantastic when I used it, you check its location in “find my” like you see where your other devices are. $25 for exponential peace of mind.
I assume you tell the customer when there is an airtag in the package. I'm sure some PO box customers would not appreciate being tracked back to their home.
@divecchia said: @johnny010 I am really happy to hear that this turned out well for you, except for the signature confirmation part. It is very stressful when you are talking that kind of money.
Donato
Thank you
The post office delivery driver left the package on the front porch even though it’s signed confirmation. I blame myself for that though because we gave him a Christmas tip for always taking good care of us.
With regards to insurance, I had Hugh Wood but was told as a collector my only option for shipping was USPS registered. I let my policy expire because I refuse to ship with them. When I asked if I could use FedEx the reply was that option is only for dealers.
Have you opened the package and everything there? or are you still in Chicago?
Yes my daughter and I did it via FT late last night. I’ll grab photos tonight after I get home.
This is why I always pay extra for a tracking #. I can see where my package is/was/ or lost. I have had packages delivered empty and it is not just one carrier that allow this to happen. Trying to get a refund or an insurance payment is not always given or easy either.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
Who would you recommend for an occasional shipper of 10-12 packages per year ranging in value from $2,000 - $5,000+?
USPS registered is costing me $60+ for the higher value packages and is taking over 2 weeks to get there. Is there an annual membership fee with the shippers or just a pay as I ship option?
@jdimmick said:
We got thieves in the distribution center here locally, the post office, knows, the post master knows it, but yet nothing is done. they say they cant pin em down. Numerous packages of mine have been stolen the past 6 months
You should hide a small tracker or camera in your package. See if you can bring some proof to the postmaster.
I put an AirTag in there above a certain threshold, can track it cross country.
How well does this work Dan?
Works fantastic when I used it, you check its location in “find my” like you see where your other devices are. $25 for exponential peace of mind.
I assume you tell the customer when there is an airtag in the package. I'm sure some PO box customers would not appreciate being tracked back to their home.
Correct, they would be notified in advance.
Edit- Actually, I would have to use Fedex most likely (no PO Boxes) for shipments of this value, but regardless the receiving party is aware. We're talking mid five figures though, so if i'm shipping a package like that to a customer, chances are that we have developed a considerable amount of mutual trust for each other.....after all, they would have already been comfortable enough to send me a payment of that size beforehand.
@JWP said:
This is why I always pay extra for a tracking #. I can see where my package is/was/ or lost. I have had packages delivered empty and it is not just one carrier that allow this to happen. Trying to get a refund or an insurance payment is not always given or easy either.
There is no USPS service that requires you to buy a tracking number?????
@GRANDAM said:
Who would you recommend for an occasional shipper of 10-12 packages per year ranging in value from $2,000 - $5,000+?
USPS registered is costing me $60+ for the higher value packages and is taking over 2 weeks to get there. Is there an annual membership fee with the shippers or just a pay as I ship option?
Sounds like Shipandinsure or one of the other pay-as-you-go options would suffice. USPS small flat rate with sig would be 12$ and with insurance through SAI your all in cost would be ~$20, with 2-3 day delivery vs 2-3 weeks.
@JWP said:
This is why I always pay extra for a tracking #. I can see where my package is/was/ or lost. I have had packages delivered empty and it is not just one carrier that allow this to happen. Trying to get a refund or an insurance payment is not always given or easy either.
There is no USPS service that requires you to buy a tracking number.
I assumed you would understand that I use Ground advantage or other PM services. I do not use 1st class mail. Appologize if you did not understand this omission.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
@JWP said:
This is why I always pay extra for a tracking #. I can see where my package is/was/ or lost. I have had packages delivered empty and it is not just one carrier that allow this to happen. Trying to get a refund or an insurance payment is not always given or easy either.
There is no USPS service that requires you to buy a tracking number.
I assumed you would understand that I use Ground advantage or other PM services. I do not use 1st class mail. Appologize if you did not understand this omission.
I did understand that. All services except 1st class come with tracking, you don't pay extra. 1st class doesn't and you can't buy it. So you were just saying that you don't use first class?
I'm pretty sure nobody uses 1st class for anything but junk because you can't insure it.
@jmlanzaf I have received many items from buyers and sellers using 1st class and forever stamps with no tracking #. It is their choice not mine to select a service with a tracking #, not mine.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
So, to be fair to this conversation, several points should be made for insurance types and industries talked about here. The real dicotomy seems to not necessarily be in costs, but rather in OVERALL values of your material. You are a big shipper? Likely a Hugh Wood or Sotheby's situation. You are a small to medium person, well then, there are options like shipandinsure. I think Pirate Shipping also has insurance, but I don't use them, so I'm not sure about fee structure.
Shipandinsure has an annual fee ($90) or so, PLUS you have to accesses it via a membership NACA (which has a fee of $135). Total is $225 for ACCESS to the shipandinsure system (I'm pretty sure).
Shipandinsure has different rates for different types of shipping choices as listed in Dan's post. While USPS priority has increased in cost, and decreased in coverage, overall, USPS is cheaper for small items in priority boxes. Way cheaper in my experience than FEDEX.
I don't have experience with Hugh Wood, except contacting them once, and not getting a reply. My thought is that your premiums for Hugh Wood would have to be much greater than $225 per year...but it also comes with transport insurance, etc. Without doing the math, for a smaller collector that isn't transporting $200K to $1 mil in coins to shows each year, seems like something like a shipandinsure would be better.
USPS registered comes with $25K insurance up front, and covers collectables. IF you don't mind the wait times, this could be on par with other shipping forms.
This is an instant economy. Folks want to be paid now, and have their item now. Fedex or the like (overnight mail) seems like best type of shipping, if that is your fancy. shipandinsure rates are nearly comparable for those services. I have heard (ancillary) that FEDEX has a worse track record for theft, etc than USPS. Again, my source on that is "cuz I made it the heck up."
the decision is really geared on "how much" and "how costly" the stuff you ship is. At this point, $500-1000 or less, I am more likely to self insure than pay for insurance (depending on where it is going, etc). For smaller shippers, say 100K or less a year, a discounter might be better than a larger insurance policy.
@SurfinxHI said:
So, to be fair to this conversation, several points should be made for insurance types and industries talked about here. The real dicotomy seems to not necessarily be in costs, but rather in OVERALL values of your material. You are a big shipper? Likely a Hugh Wood or Sotheby's situation. You are a small to medium person, well then, there are options like shipandinsure. I think Pirate Shipping also has insurance, but I don't use them, so I'm not sure about fee structure.
Shipandinsure has an annual fee ($90) or so, PLUS you have to accesses it via a membership NACA (which has a fee of $135). Total is $225 for ACCESS to the shipandinsure system (I'm pretty sure).
Shipandinsure has different rates for different types of shipping choices as listed in Dan's post. While USPS priority has increased in cost, and decreased in coverage, overall, USPS is cheaper for small items in priority boxes. Way cheaper in my experience than FEDEX.
I don't have experience with Hugh Wood, except contacting them once, and not getting a reply. My thought is that your premiums for Hugh Wood would have to be much greater than $225 per year...but it also comes with transport insurance, etc. Without doing the math, for a smaller collector that isn't transporting $200K to $1 mil in coins to shows each year, seems like something like a shipandinsure would be better.
USPS registered comes with $25K insurance up front, and covers collectables. IF you don't mind the wait times, this could be on par with other shipping forms.
This is an instant economy. Folks want to be paid now, and have their item now. Fedex or the like (overnight mail) seems like best type of shipping, if that is your fancy. shipandinsure rates are nearly comparable for those services. I have heard (ancillary) that FEDEX has a worse track record for theft, etc than USPS. Again, my source on that is "cuz I made it the heck up."
the decision is really geared on "how much" and "how costly" the stuff you ship is. At this point, $500-1000 or less, I am more likely to self insure than pay for insurance (depending on where it is going, etc). For smaller shippers, say 100K or less a year, a discounter might be better than a larger insurance policy.
as always, your mileage may vary.
Best,
Surf
Regarding #4 above - I’m not sure what you meant by “USPS registered comes with $25K insurance up front,..”. But in order to avoid possible confusion, the maximum insurance coverage provided with registered insured mail is $50,000 per package (not $25,000). And the sender doesn’t automatically get a particular amount of coverage “up front”. The desired amount must be requested and paid for.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Regarding #4 above - I’m not sure what you meant by “USPS registered comes with $25K insurance up front,..”. But in order to avoid possible confusion, the maximum insurance coverage provided with registered insured mail is $50,000 per package (not $25,000). And the sender doesn’t automatically get a particular amount of coverage “up front”. The desired amount must be requested and paid for.
up front meaning that you can insure it up to that level without questions....50K is even better. Just like shipandinsure has limits (but you pick the number).
USPS loss rate has skyrocketed the last year, even a dealers registered package was lost a while ago. He didn't have private insurance, and several months later his claim is still being disputed.
Very disconcerting. I have always wondered how frustrating the process would be if I ever had to make an insurance claim wish USPS. Are you able to share any details about the nature of the dispute?
Comments
Whether inspected or accidentally opened, it wasn't opened by a thief.
Or opened by a thief that didn't want any of what was there. The independent contractors or USPS employees must realize there is always the possibility of being caught so they must have sort of 'selection' criteria.
I do get concerned whenever a package takes longer to get from one hub to the next than it should have.
You should hide a small tracker or camera in your package. See if you can bring some proof to the postmaster.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
I put an AirTag in there above a certain threshold, can track it cross country.
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They left coins and then taped up the package again????
I shipped a coin to my friend in LA last Saturday (he received it today). He asked me to ship FedEx two days instead of USPS priority small box. FedEx cost me $39.14, $26 more than USPS.
@PeakRarities ...Anyone really...
"All of my shipments are insured privately"
Any recommendations for this type of insurance(shipping expensive valuables/coins)?
Thanks
How well does this work Dan?
www.shipandinsure.com
@Rc5280 I would say Hugh Wood hands down.
Successful BST transactions- Bfjohnson, Collectorcoins, 1peter223, Shrub68, Byers, Greencopper
I use ship and insure. https://shipandinsure.com/
Works fantastic when I used it, you check its location in “find my” like you see where your other devices are. $25 for exponential peace of mind.
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It depends how often you ship and what the typical value is. Many collectors could get away with shipandinsure, but they recently decreased the usps priority limit to 5k. If you ship frequently or high value, Hugh wood hands down. Most people get a Hugh wood policy that covers their coins at their home or sdb, traveling on your person, and during shipping. They have collector rates for ANA members and it’s very affordable.
Shipandinsure seems to work for many people, but the rates can add up quickly if you ship often, and the HW policy would be much more value overall, likely paying for itself. I hope everyone knows they reduced their limits on certain services at the beginning of this year. If you read between the lines, this indirectly tells you which service they’re having the most trouble with lately…and vice versa.
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Air tags work great if you can tuck them so they are not findable... Milwaukee (The tool company) makes a type of airtag and I put them in my Graco air sprayer... It was stolen from my truck... Was able to track it to a pawn shop months later.
The tags work as long as they are hidden.
Also saves on the emotions and collateral damage when coins go missing and you think you are going to lose coins that are bordereline no replaceable...
@PeakRarities
I'm a modest seller/shipper with random eBay sales of $500-5000 throughout the year.
Every few months I'll ship out a 5-$10,000 TPG submission.
It sounds like Shipandinsure is a good fit?
However, my curiosity was piqued when you mention... " Hugh wood policy that "covers their coins at their home or sdb", traveling on your person, and during shipping"...
I guess I'll have a look and see what that's all about!
Much appreciated for everyone's input!
I would contact Hugh wood and get a quote, then I would estimate total insurance costs annually using shipandinsure and compare the two to see what’s the better value. I would love to use shipandinsure for just shipping, but I need the storage and the carry insurance for shows. I’ve also heard Gallagher is pretty good and I plan to get a quote from them as well, if you send me a message I’ll share my contacts with you.
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"Ship and Insure" is more onerous than Hugh Wood; they require you to ship a box in a box and enter all details of each shipment on the day you ship it into their system.
My point is that wrapping valuable coins in aluminum is not going to fool anyone. If potential thieves have hand-held metal detectors then a relatively light package that comes up showing "aluminum" would be a tip-off that someone is using foil to throw off the scent. The only aluminum item that is light is foil, and people don't ship aluminum foil except to cover something up. This is an example of confirmation bias, that if you wrap your coins in aluminum and you have no thefts, then therefore it was because of the aluminum foil that the package did not become a target.
I know many have had good experiences with Hugh Wood, but I found them difficult to deal with when trying to obtain policy quotes. Emails went completely unanswered, or I had to reply 2-3x to get a reply. It seemed like they did not care about getting my business at all, and I worried how they’d be in a claim, so I went with a policy elsewhere.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
My subs are headed to Bedminster. Yesterday I received the same "Regional Weather Delay" while the box sits in Pittsburgh. Maybe an unknown Nor'easter moved to the left and became a Nor'wester.
And I think that any mainstream shipping service has a huge amount of package flow and some surveillance. It is beyond unlikely that there are employees constantly sitting there scanning packages and pocketing them based on scan results on a frequent basis.
I am not saying there is no package theft but, without bias, the reason most packages don't get stolen is because not many packages get stolen.
I don't know if this is a comprehensive list, and I'm sure there are plenty of losses that were not reported, but it's all I could find. Currently at NCIC (https://numismaticcrimes.org/category/ncic-alerts/), dating back to 1/1/24, there are 12 listed stolen shipments. That's one per month. How many numismatic packages are shipped per month? It must be at least tens of thousands but probably well into the hundreds of thousands.
I'll take my chances.
It is a matter of trust… and time. Once items leave my hands in the proper packaging and labeling , and they’re out of my control. Then my hope is the delivery personnel are competent, diligent and honest , and that they’re equitably paid. For the most part all systems are go. We all have different experiences but missing packages are a pain. i recently heard from a friend who lost his luggage while flying . He said he could see right where his bags were (thanks to trackers) but he had no way of getting the airlines to track his bag. Months had passed and i’ll have to ask if he ever got it back. How long do the batteries last in a tracking device ? Sorry to go off topic. Glad to see the problem resolved.
Heritage and GC alone send a couple thousand per WEEK. So it is well into the hundreds of thousands. NGC and PCGS get probably close to a million packages between them, coming and going.
To your point, most theft is probably due to convenience not package research.
@johnny010 I am really happy to hear that this turned out well for you, except for the signature confirmation part. It is very stressful when you are talking that kind of money.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
Let me guess, intitials of the rep were E.B.?
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No, it was a different individual.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Thank you
The post office delivery driver left the package on the front porch even though it’s signed confirmation. I blame myself for that though because we gave him a Christmas tip for always taking good care of us.
With regards to insurance, I had Hugh Wood but was told as a collector my only option for shipping was USPS registered. I let my policy expire because I refuse to ship with them. When I asked if I could use FedEx the reply was that option is only for dealers.
...and you would be absolutely 100% incorrect. I have known several individuals who worked for USPS and FedEx that told me they have seen employees fired for using hand held metal detectors. You have to understand how this all works. They are not examining individual boxes in their hand. They are standing beside a conveyor belt with packages whizzing by, and holding the hand held detector over the moving packages. The aluminum does indeed mask gold and silver coins. I have tried it using a cheap hand held detector bought from Amazon, and the aluminum created a faraday cage which did in fact mask the gold exceptionally well.
I am simply trying to give you guys and gals some solid advice. If you want to ignore it, fine. You want to doubt it? Be my guest!
It's just cheap way to add another layer of protection. That's all.
Dwayne F. Sessom
Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
Have you opened the package and everything there? or are you still in Chicago?
You must be living deep in some isolated neck of the woods to keep dropping off packages there!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I assume you tell the customer when there is an airtag in the package. I'm sure some PO box customers would not appreciate being tracked back to their home.
Collector, occasional seller
Yes my daughter and I did it via FT late last night. I’ll grab photos tonight after I get home.
This is why I always pay extra for a tracking #. I can see where my package is/was/ or lost. I have had packages delivered empty and it is not just one carrier that allow this to happen. Trying to get a refund or an insurance payment is not always given or easy either.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
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Who would you recommend for an occasional shipper of 10-12 packages per year ranging in value from $2,000 - $5,000+?
USPS registered is costing me $60+ for the higher value packages and is taking over 2 weeks to get there. Is there an annual membership fee with the shippers or just a pay as I ship option?
Correct, they would be notified in advance.
Edit- Actually, I would have to use Fedex most likely (no PO Boxes) for shipments of this value, but regardless the receiving party is aware. We're talking mid five figures though, so if i'm shipping a package like that to a customer, chances are that we have developed a considerable amount of mutual trust for each other.....after all, they would have already been comfortable enough to send me a payment of that size beforehand.
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There is no USPS service that requires you to buy a tracking number?????
Sounds like Shipandinsure or one of the other pay-as-you-go options would suffice. USPS small flat rate with sig would be 12$ and with insurance through SAI your all in cost would be ~$20, with 2-3 day delivery vs 2-3 weeks.
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I assumed you would understand that I use Ground advantage or other PM services. I do not use 1st class mail. Appologize if you did not understand this omission.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
I did understand that. All services except 1st class come with tracking, you don't pay extra. 1st class doesn't and you can't buy it. So you were just saying that you don't use first class?
I'm pretty sure nobody uses 1st class for anything but junk because you can't insure it.
@jmlanzaf I have received many items from buyers and sellers using 1st class and forever stamps with no tracking #. It is their choice not mine to select a service with a tracking #, not mine.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
So, to be fair to this conversation, several points should be made for insurance types and industries talked about here. The real dicotomy seems to not necessarily be in costs, but rather in OVERALL values of your material. You are a big shipper? Likely a Hugh Wood or Sotheby's situation. You are a small to medium person, well then, there are options like shipandinsure. I think Pirate Shipping also has insurance, but I don't use them, so I'm not sure about fee structure.
Best,
Surf
Isn’t shipandinsure the other service offered on eBay other than USPS? If so I thought they did not insure coins and bullion?
shipandinsure is directly aimed at insuring collectables....
Regarding #4 above - I’m not sure what you meant by “USPS registered comes with $25K insurance up front,..”. But in order to avoid possible confusion, the maximum insurance coverage provided with registered insured mail is $50,000 per package (not $25,000). And the sender doesn’t automatically get a particular amount of coverage “up front”. The desired amount must be requested and paid for.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Glad it arrived safely.
up front meaning that you can insure it up to that level without questions....50K is even better. Just like shipandinsure has limits (but you pick the number).
No. EBay has ShipCover as an insurance option.
Correct, and the first two things mentioned on the "items excluded from ShipCover" list are coins and bullion.
Philippians 4:4-7
USPS loss rate has skyrocketed the last year, even a dealers registered package was lost a while ago. He didn't have private insurance, and several months later his claim is still being disputed.
Very disconcerting. I have always wondered how frustrating the process would be if I ever had to make an insurance claim wish USPS. Are you able to share any details about the nature of the dispute?
Here we are. Safe and sound.