Does anyone know exactly what qualifies a 1971s Ike silver proof 69 for the rare Type 1 reverse?
Camh61
Posts: 26 ✭
Trying to understand what has been written and how it compares with the Ike that I have. It's got the flat spot between the 9 and the 12 o'clock. It's got differences in the craters and the Eagle. Heritage auctions say one thing that defines it. The flat spot on the Earth. Got any good answers for me? Thanks
1
Answers
It's all about the Earth, islands, and Florida:
https://www.pcgs.com/news/3-types-of-1972-eisenhower-dollars
I'll add that if you see incuse lines off Florida and not distinct islands, you have the type 2 reverse which is the normal proof reverse.
http://www.varietyvista.com/13 Eisenhower Dollars/Reverse Design Varieties.htm
Does that look like the flat Earth and islands off of Florida?
You have the normal type 2 reverse.
According to the webpage for Heritage auctions it says that the flat spot is the one definer?
But my Moose doesn't care about Ike. It just doesn't understand varieties lol
One thing that I am finding is after looking at many '71 Ikes that the designer initials are the straight g not the g with serif. I know that the straight g is on the type 1 Kennedy. And the Heritage page says nothing about the islands?
Like the Accent hair Kennedys the Heritage page shows the hair itself as the determining factor. Not the missing lower serif on the "I" as other sites say. I find that there are lots of different things said throughout the industry but nothing purely definitive. Starting to think that the coin industry is a "good ol boys club" and only certain people can go through the gates
Like the Kennedy with the "v" you can see in the right light. I wonder why the grading companies don't catch them? I notice lots of coins that have been graded don't have any attributes listed for them
Nothing to do with a "good ol boys club", but varieties are not for everyone. With respect, you do not have the eye or the understanding to get into varieties at this time. Best to focus on other aspects of coin collecting that you enjoy.
If you truly think it is a "good ol boys club" then I would strongly suggest you leave immediately if you feel as though you are not one of the "good ol boys".
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
The lower serif is quite definitive and easier to see than the hair differences which can more easily be affected by strike. Respectfully, this post reads like trolling. If there were nothing definitive, how would the "good 'old boys" know what they have?
I don't see what got your hackles raised unless it could possibly be the truth? You'd think that a group like this would probably have a few people who don't buy into the grading services or don't see a particular aspect as uniform in definition? But you are entitled to your opinion
Deep mirror? Or just "proof" like?
Troll-like
Your photos are way out of focus. You are probably holding the camera lens too close and or moving it slightly. Try farther away with something to brace against for stability and then crop to get the coin to have more details close-up.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Thanks for the photography lesson. I'm old and can't see anything clearly so focusing is a problem
Questionable color in my opinion. Does look like a straight grade though…possibly a 71+ DCAM Ultra. 🤔🤪
There are several members who consider conspiracy as you wrote above. Peruse those threads that have the word “closed” in red highlights.
So if I accused your wife of having an affair, she would only raise her hackles if it were true? Try that with her and let us know how it goes.
Nothing to do with conspiracy. Everything to do with control. That's the main reason why there's third party grading. Truth is that the only way three coin experts will agree is if two of them go blind.
Too late. She passed away over a decade ago 😔
Sorry for your loss.
That's really not true. Even with the mostly "experienced amateurs" on this site you will see a clustering of opinions. TPGs use 3 member grading teams and i assure you that 99% of the time they don't have 3 different opinions.
You continue to cast aspersions and then wonder why people think you are trolling. The issue is your ignorance of the hobby not the failings of the hobby, and it does have some.
No even moderately experienced collector has any trouble identifying an accented hair half dollar. There is no confusion in the hobby.
Thanks. She was a good woman and friend. Getting old sucks but that's life > @jmlanzaf said:
That's not what I have heard from the "experts". Last one I communicated with said that there were 5 and then an overseer (manager). It really doesn't matter to me because I can find the varieties they forget or can't see. All my 3 accent hair Kennedys were sans attributes
The different reverse types are related to the earth, the little round thing to the left of the eagles head. Almost all of the 1971-S proofs are type 2. This is the reverse type that has incuse islands (instead or round things popping out it is like a line pushed in). Type 2 reverses are more valuable in 1972 business strikes (than type 1 or 3). Here is picture from coinfacts
Here is a page showing the different reverse type found on Eisenhower dollars.
varietyvista.com/13%20Eisenhower%20Dollars/Reverse%20Design%20Varieties.htm
I have looked at both types of letters for the type 1 and type 2 and these are the more block style ones. I had my panel of eyes compare the two and they agreed it looks more like the type 1 than the type 2. Especially the "s" in States
Usually 3 and a Finalizer.
They don't forget/ can't see. Variety attribution with a few exceptions is a separate service.
That might be true because the expert was maybe seeing double? That's why I like it when people don't pay extra for the attributes. Although it leaves people who have something rare without the interest to look for themselves. They think that it is the usual porridge
You are confusing different things. When you are talking about letter types for type 1 and type 2, that only relates to the BICENNTENNIAL reverse made in 1975 and 1976.
Well I guess if that's the case it eliminates the web page that says that one of the indicators is the "block" type letters. So right now the only page that's accurate is the Heritage auction page. Too much misinformation on too many pages. I'm going with what Heritage says because they have sold a few of the Type 1's
That may explain why you are unable to identify varieties, at least in part. You also do not have a proper understanding of them.
See above.
yes you are
Welcome to the forum, nevertheless. I forgot to do it earlier. Keep reading threads, good luck.
It's pretty self explanatory if you go to the NGC varieties page. They show it as the flat spot Earth as well as Heritage. I think that is all the confirmation I need. Just like the auto forums some people don't investigate and rely solely on what they are told by others. I research. Two sites concur with the flat spot being the definition but only on the proof coins> @Creg said:
Thanks for the tip. I think once I get past the dogs who think they should push the new people around I will be fine. Not too worried about it. There's always a few of them in any group. Thanks
Read other threads, members handled you with kid gloves. You don’t succeed here calling people “dogs”—I don’t confide in that hockey with you.
It is what it is. I just meant some people have a pack mentality and I don't. If they can call me "troll" tit for tat. Like George Carlin said. People by themselves are alright but when they pack up that's when they get annoying
Camh61, if you already know the answers why are you asking here? You are very similar to the late Fordee4, may they rest in peace.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1110214/mint-error-or-damage-any-information-help#latest
I don't know for sure. And I am trying to weed out the truth since these sites all have a different idea of what that coin is. Possibly get all these "experts" to put their heads together and come up with one "standardized" definition.
One thing I have found out is that in the 3 pictures of the Type 1 is that the Earth is flat from 9-12 o'clock and the designer initials FG have the straight longer upswinging "g" without the serif as mine does
If that's all the confirmation you need, go ahead and submit the coin. If through PCGS, you'll need to submit at the Walkthrough level, plus Variety Attribution, for a total of $170. If through NGC, choose the Unlimited Walkthrough level (as the 1971-S $1 Proof Type 1 Reverse is a $30,000+ coin), plus VarietyPlus, for a total of $370. Go ahead and submit to both services if you do not get the desired result. Continue to resubmit until you learn the lesson that varieties are not for you.
This is from a Heritage sale of the rare 1971-S proof with type 1 reverse. Yes it does have a flat side but that should not be your determining factor. Do you see the United States on this earth? Do you see Florida and the Carribean Islands? Can you see any island differences? There are a couple people in this thread already posting that most likely know more about Eisenhower dollars than whoever wrote the Heritage auction description.
That's a start. Identification of rare coins shouldn't be rocket science. That's why I am not the only one who thinks it leaves a door open for THEM to eliminate those who aren't in the "club". Wishy-washy non standardized stuff shouldn't be there. Only a "precise" definition from all the experts
Why would I submit coins to have graded when it has already been graded? I don't buy into the hype that those services are the be all and end all. I have heard lots of people on lots of forums say that they are not consistent. And it's about the money not necessarily about getting it right the first time
The more money you spend, the faster you will learn your lesson.
That being said, if you don't want to have the coin regraded, it means resubmitting to PCGS for variety attribution is your only option. That only costs $45 ($20 for Variety Attribution, plus the $25 Reholder fee) but you can still learn your lesson that way if you resubmit enough times.
It is not the type I reverse. And the differences have not be adequately addressed. The type I features different breast feathers as well as a difference in the wing feathers. Type I is a different design. If you had a type I and type II side by side, you would immediately notice the difference. The best example I can use to sort of illustrate the point is the 1878 Morgan with the reverse of 1878 and 1879.
There are likely less than 25 type I 1971-s Ike proofs. Needless to say, they are rare and have spent decades out of the spot light. There is a numismatic mystery behind the type I reverse and there remain many unanswered questions.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Well thanks coinkat. I can certainly see a difference between that and the 1972s that I have. On the Eagles head as well as the feathers. So I still have questions that leave me needing to find the answer. I know that it isn't one of the prototypes and not a regular 1971s. So the hunt for what it is goes on. Thanks for a suitable answer although it certainly says you realize there are far too many grey areas when it comes to a precise definition of what it is.
You don't.
It is.
It doesn't.
It says no such thing; that is just your delusion talking. Too bad you weren't able to learn your lesson, but that's going to take money. Probably lots of money, in your case.