Do people minted this century care about collectable coins at all, and will they in the future?
bennybravo
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New people have little plastic cards for buying that Starbuck's coffee or a shirt at target, heck, sometimes you can just swipe that little black mirror of yours over the keypad and be on your way with your purchase. As actual coin and currency nears extinction in a daily commerce way, what do you see for the future of collecting coins? Does a kid born in 1994 or later give a crap about key date Lincoln Cents, Mercury dimes, or Morgan Dollars? Do you see lots of youth coming into the hobby? Maybe not so much? I thought it might make an interesting topic.
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Coin Photographer.
I like that sir. I'm hoping there are an overwhelming quantity of younger people just like you!
https://www.ebay.com/mys/active
There are some. There are always some. How many remains to be seen. As a general rule, millennial don't collect possessions as much as prior generations. I suspect Gen Z is similar. But there will always be some.
A parallel question is whether younger collectors, regardless of how many, will collect the same coins as the older folk.
Great post!
https://www.ebay.com/mys/active
I think jmlanzaf pretty much nailed it. The majority of the younger generations currently likes to collect memories and experiences, only time will tell if they decide to collect tangible items and what those items will be.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
OP didn't state a timeframe which makes a big difference. Longer term:
They won't be collecting the most widely collected 20th century US coinage in the same proportion as collectors near my age did because the available variety is so much larger. I expect set collecting of this coinage to decrease noticeably.
They will still almost certainly (overwhelmingly) prefer US coinage, though I expect (somewhat) less due to changing ethnic demographics.
The relative preference between US series, at least where one is viewed as a direct alternative to the other, will almost certainly not change. We're not going to wake up one day to find presidential portrait series or the Franklin half more "popular" (with a higher preference) vs. the immediately preceding series.
No
Casual collector, mostly Morgans & Peace Dollars.
I think that the more photogenic a coin is, the more younger people will want to collect them, in hand appearance won’t matter as much to them as how the coin photo looks.
Mr_Spud
There are a few indicators that suggest the pool of collectors will be smaller….. but there are too many variables to predict it with any certainty.
The hobby has been declared dead a few times now….. The mint’s current efforts to spam everything and anything harken a bit to the run-up prior to the end of the stamp era.
If you are correct there are going to be some owners of recent TV's that may have difficulty selling.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
To answer your question you would first have to tell me what you consider coin collecting.
"Young kids sitting around the kitchen table pushing coins into their blue whitman folders?"
"Mature collectors looking for rare date Branch gold or early federal coins?"
"Average income people collecting a type or series of coins they relate to?
I find in general broad or universal statements tend to be flawed at best. lets take some of the girls i graduated with in 1979. Carol S. graduated first in our class and first in her class at Wharton Business College. She curently earns a base salary of 25 million dollars per year as a hedge fund manager in South korea. There you have it, all girls from 1979 are millionaires. Wait, Sheila k. has no job and has been in and out of treatment more than a dozen times. She now lives in a single wide trailer down by the railroad tracks. Guess we know were to look for all the girls from grad class 1979. Oops, Penny V. has seven children and lives on a dairy farm. Guess we are gonna have quite a population explosion on our hands.
I think at best you can make some very generalized statements. In my opinion, people are people. It is a marketing ploy that you can lump all people of a certain generation in one basket. Some people will become coin collectors. I doubt they will start with little blue folders but the important thing is that they are coins; not how they store them. Todays new collector is going to be much more sophisticated then kids from my era. (Of course they will first have to get past the get rich quick Walmart parking lot finds), but they will find there is more information, books, price guides, (Coin sites didn't exist), etc. than ever before. Last of all; photos. We live in a day and an age where 99% of the population is walking around with a camera in hand. Pictures have become the dialog of the 21st Century. Here is one universal statement you can make. Photos will play a huge role in what coins stay and or become popular. James
My crystal ball is way too cloudy to answer this one!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
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Nickelodeon
Unfortunately, this is probably going to be the correct response to your question.
My guess, truly historical stuff will still be in demand, but a run of the mill walking liberty or Morgan, not so much.
I also think that precious metal stacking will greatly diminish in the future. Those folks fit a very specific demographic that is quite divorced from the mentalities of the younger generations.
My 28 year old stepson and 29 year old stepdaughter are very interested in coins…..VERY. Every year for Christmas and their birthdays I try and give them something nice from my collection….and they just love it! My stepson (summa cum laude from Baylor with three degrees in finance) was pretty excited when I gave him six fairly common proof sets for his birthday in NOV. I told him they were pretty inexpensive and he said he figures in another 20 years or so that ‘common’ coins will be obsolete as everyone will be using their phones, crypto currency and credit cards to pay for everything. Then he said these sets will gain traction as actual coinage will vanish……which would make our collections much more valuable. I have always taught my step kids that I don’t buy junk any more so they will need to be very careful if they decide to sell any of the coins/bills they receive/inherit from me. They are well aware of PCGS, NGC and CAC….. Lately I have been unloading my more common pieces in an effort to get quality coins/currency in my collection.
My 17 year old daughter loves coins. The 21 year old doesn’t per se but she pulls the 90% for me at her work and likes sending photos. My 13 and 8 aren’t there (yet?).
Agree the folders are dead.
This is an
.....investme.nt...question⁰
Some will, most won’t - just as it always has been. The percentage of people of any generation that collects coins in a serious manner is small. I’m Gen Z, for what it’s worth.
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Hard to say ... my kids were interested growing up, and my son stays somewhat engaged as a young working adult, but it's not a huge priority for him. I get it -- it wasn't front and center for me when I was working out how to make my way in the world either.
I definitely saw more people in their 20's and 30's at the last couple of shows I attended than I have tended to over the last couple decades, on both sides of the table, if that's worth anything. I don't think coin collecting with the level of attention those of us who hang out here give it has ever been a thing that huge numbers of people do, so maybe it's a fringe thing that will still attract a fringe. That's all it needs, isn't it?
Not enough History Majors…
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Depends upon the timeframe.
Longer term, I believe it will increase, assuming it's still legal, but I still expect gold to lose large proportional relative value versus the things people need to buy.
The economic runway to "kick the can" will run out and the "chickens will come home to roost". USD will not remain the global reserve currency forever and I don't believe any current version of "crypto" will be viewed as it is now either. This is (almost) entirely a side consequence of the 21st century global financial mania.
Won't need coins when the government can provide all that is needed. Cradle to grave.
Wait till they get their cards hijacked a few times and they have to go through the trouble of proving it wasn't their transaction!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Absolutely - RCI is super for investment privacy / but many world issues like Mexico Libertads will be King. World will catch up with US which may decrease some to Match world. Mexico coins will will take off vs the overpriced more common US. The sticker game will be extinct as the holder game evaporates in the new dawn of AI self grading holders which one can purchase at WalMart.
The Mexico Caballito Peso and 50 Peso Mexico classic gold - super investment potential.
For your hypothetical to become reality, US coinage will have to decline substantially or crash. I can envision a scenario where this can and will happen, but not one where world coinage increases as you imply.
Mexico Libertads and other similar mintage world NCLT will never sell for prices anywhere near reflective of the relative scarcity vs. the ASE, unless the scarcer ASE dates completely crater. The series isn't interesting enough as a collectible, only as "investment" to "widget" buyers. The other two don't have the prospects you imply either.
The prices you imply would make all three completely uncompetitive with alternative coinage, including all other Mexican series. Mexico and other developing country coinage doesn't have the supply across the quality distribution to support the price level many US collectors seem to expect. It may resemble the one in South Africa where the very low proportion eligible for the highest TPG label number(s) sells for large premiums to all others, but the price level is still much lower vs. the US.
Roman coins are collected. Every dog has his day.
Collecting coins is like having a classic muscle car. There will always be a market for both.
I have a 16 yo son who like the vast majority has absolutely no interest in coins of any type. None of his friends, classmates, cousins or any other kids are remotely interested. I have presented to classes, given away gifts of Indian head cents, new and old buffalo nickels, state quarters, ATB quarters, etc.
A bit sad but think the real issue is that they have NO use for coins of any type in spending, accumulating or any other format. They are just out of the sphere of exposure or influence, or interest whatsoever.
Not to be a Debbie downer but this is reality. Coins just sit there and don't do tricks or provide changing stimulation particularly. No competition for a PS5 or Nintendo Gameboy.
Always a bit amusing when the odd anecdote of an interested young'un is brought up on these boards as an example of how kids are interested. They are pretty much the "snipes" of "snipe hunting " fame....
Anyway, we Love them still (I hope).
Well, just Love coins, period.
I think I'll go with the "No" answer.
The only 24 year old or younger that I know well and discuss this with wants to get a job at Heritage in Dallas in the future when he completes his studies and he is an avid collector with a very keen eye. He doesn't have a huge budget but does a lot of trading at his local coin club and does very well. I think that there are more than we know.
And not everyone starts collecting at an early age. I did not even consider collecting until my late thirties. Age does not matter when someone decides to become a collector.
Being part of this focused generation, I can state that the claims made against the millennial class are largely unfounded, untrue, or misinterpreted.
We don't collect memories and experiences any more or less than other generations, we do have more convenient methods of sharing those memories because, as was stated above, we all have a camera in our pockets and instant access to the internet and social media to share those memories and experiences on.
We do collect physical possessions when it is affordable. Coins are part of this, but so are (not speaking for myself) Lego sets, playing cards, board games, video games, shoes, and quite a bit more.
Affordability and disposable income is more of an issue than supposed lack of interest. There is the known general rule that wages have not kept up with inflation, but even for those who manage to obtain a good paying job, the cost of living is more complicated than before and it is coupled with social norms. There is health insurance, car insurance, car payments, cell phone payments, student loans, retirement "incentives," streaming services, and of course groceries and rent/mortgage. Each of these increase in cost year after year without a comparable increase in wage and to live without any of them results in either fines assessed by the government or social ostracization by our peers.
Furthermore, home ownership is increasingly out of reach for the younger generations, forcing many to either still live with their parents or to rent a small apartment or rent with roommates, at which point a lack a space to even store collectibles becomes an issue.
Now to look at the current state of coins and collecting, because there are issues there as well. The transition to digital forms of payment is perpetrated by bigger businesses and largely out of control of the general population, reducing the use of coins in every day commerce, much like how email and online payments have taken over traditional written communication and reducing the general public's exposure to stamps and causing that hobby's severe decline.
Of the coins still in circulation, there isn't much to get excited about. We are 60+ years into the clad era, therefore finding old Indian Head Cents and silver coins in pocket change is exponentially improbable. Even Wheat pennies are a rare "treasure" to come by. State Quarters and their related counterparts have no value above face which was a rude awakening for many who did follow those series from start to finish. The "W" quarters were about the only thing that piqued interest in recent years.
Whitman folders no longer make sense in terms of their cost compared to the value of the coins within. Where a folder used to cost 25 cents, they now cost around $6 for the same coins that are worth just face value and often that face value is less than the cost of the folder. Why bother spending more money on a holder than the coins are collectively worth? We're not stupid.
Coins are still a fascinating subject. The means of communicating the hobby to non- and potential collectors needs to be worked on. I have never had an issue enticing someone to start collecting, even someone who absolutely refuses to get involved can be intrigued with the right exposure.
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@The_Dinosaur_Man . A concise and on point post. My own daughter is Head Librarian for 3 libraries but has to live with us to make things work out financiially. Thanks for your insights. James
Some discretionary income is a necessary precondition, but no amount of income or wealth will convert anyone into a coin collector. This is the usual implied claim for limited of collecting in the developing world.
The non-collecting public doesn't aspire to increased affluence to buy coins. There are plenty of people with discretionary income seemingly for everything else, just not for coins apparently. I wouldn't expect non-collectors to allocate their discretionary income to coins but that's because it isn't of any interest to them.
If this were a legitimate primary reason, participation by the wealthiest would be a lot higher and it should be reflected in the price level. Is it? I don't see it.
The latest available Ultra Wealth Report doesn't provide geographical segmentation, but the 2019 edition does with 150,000+ from North America at $30MM+ and presumably at least 90% of this subset are from the US. It also provides segmentation for multiple wealth tiers ($30MM, $100MM, $250MM< $500MM, $1B+) where the number can be estimated by applying the regional percentages.
If the general participation rate is in the vicinity of 1% of the collecting age population (my guesstimate), maybe this group is 2% or slightly more. It can't be much more than that or if it is, their financial commitment is really low proportionately. A few of these people (dozens at least) can buy every single coin in the PCGS and NGC data US collectors want most with plenty of change left over.
Modern designs don't add much incentive.
"Just another crummy commercial " as Ralphie would say.
Fantastic post and thank you for taking the time to help educate us "old folks"!
Regarding the W quarters, have you acquired both complete sets?
I would love to hear more about your search for them!🤔
Have seen coin club members bail out of coins for gaming (Playstation 5 / GTA Online) another guy for sports / entertainment venues, travel. Coins don’t pay interest, dividends, and many tarnish, go bad in the holder over time. Many have discovered world coins or currency and dumped the more expensive US for those areas (they been there, done that as far as US).
As I said, it’s great there are exceptions to the rule, but frankly the above post would likely have my son and others laughing and bored at even the response.
Again, isolated or relatively so, individuals or episodes are great but HARDLY the rule or commonplace and to think otherwise is likely biased or delusional.
Again, I am so very glad there are the occasional exceptions but that is exactly what they are for reasons stated and of course many more.
Well, just Love coins, period.
As a high school science teacher, I use world coins for my scratch-off quizzes (see image below) and my students usually show enthusiasm and excitement about the coins I give them to use, especially when then get to use a non-round coin, like 10-cent Bahamas coins. A few have even brought in their coins to show me, mostly wheaties or world coins they’ve collected along the way of their travels. Or they’ll tell me about their dad’s coin collection.
So I’m not so sure that students today are as ignorant about coins as y’all say they are…
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I believe serious coin collecting will significantly decrease over the next 20-30 years as the remaining older collectors pass away. Expect prices to drop dramatically in the future as the pool of serious collectors diminishes considerably
Prices on modern coins clad coins will probably be hurt the most. Many, many millions and billions have been minted. I can’t see a large group of dealers wanting to touch that kind of material. Perhaps Morgan’s could adjust as well. It’s incredible how many there are in high grades of certain dates.
Someone here recently shared his choice VF and better early dated Walkers. They were terrific to look at. They really won’t break the bank but they are a challenge to find and are super easy to sell. Same with pre-1925 type two Standing Quarters. Seated coins are fast approaching their 200 year anniversary. There are plenty of new colonial coin collectors lurking and they are jumping through hoops to find better quality coins especially scarcer varieties.
Sure we could have a downturn but I’m not looking away if something I need becomes available. I’m enjoying every coin I have and the history that comes with them.
@7Jaguars has nailed it. In summary, there are many more choices and thus too much competition for alternative interests than we had as kids. Outside of sports or playing outside, we could collect coins, tops cards, stamps, bottle caps, marbles, hot wheels, etc. Those were the choices for hobbies. When we were bored there were 3 TV stations that we could tune into. Many of us collected coins as kids, left the hobby as we raised families, and then fell in love again with our childhood passion. To a degree the lower % of kids into coin collecting may be offset by the large growth in population. I think rare coins will always do well, but the middle somewhere between bullion and high-end will struggle to gain value over the long run. My experience with my kids as well as their friends is that they are more interested in Crypto and bullion over collectible coins. The challenge for this industry is how to engage the younger generation. It is a tough task.
Sociological studies would counter some of those anecdotes...
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=millennial+attitudes+towards+possessions&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&t=1735823522745&u=#p=cdbsWsQU8s8J
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=millennial+attitudes+towards+possessions&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&t=1735823635778&u=#p=2W4pyXa4wgEJ
However, it is complicated snd somewhat driven by relative wealth.
From your post seems you don’t know how to price slabbed Mexico. A Mexico 1983 Silver Slabbed MS69 Libertad is a $1900 coin. I do think US and World (with its much lower pops) will even out MV wise. People off the bourse are flocking to slabbed world vs the more expensive US. In the graded currency arena many opportunities for low pop. I recently banked big time on some CSA notes had graded by our hosts / sold strongly from my bourse table.
Yes, you keep telling me I don't know because you're writing from your narrow view as a dealer in a limited subset of coinage.
I've encountered responses similar to yours intermittently. When you say "even out with US coinage", only if US coinage loses most of its current value. There are too many scarce world coins (including Mexico) for all, most, or a large pct to sell for comparable prices to more than a very low proportion of (supposedly) scarce but (very) relatively overpriced US coins. The supply, quality distribution, and price need to be balanced where a large enough collector base can both find and afford what they actually want. That's one difference between US collecting and all developing country coinage.
You used the Libertad as an example. Are you telling me all proof dates are supposed to sell for a 95-W type price?
That's what you are implying. That's never going to happen, unless the 95-W craters because every or most proof Libertads isn't/aren't interesting enough as a collectible to sell for this type of price. The 95-W price is supportable because it's the "key" date in the series and only (for the basic set) 4+ figure coin meaning the series is affordable to its predominantly moderately affluent collector base. A 95-W type price for all or most proof Libertad would make the series both unaffordable to the vast majority of the current collector base and completely uncompetitive with all other Mexican coinage.
Every post of yours I've ever read is written in the context of buying and selling coins as "investments" or dealer inventory. I don't see any interest from you in the coins as collectibles. This mentality is consistent with the late 80's US TPG bubble and the much smaller one in South Africa peaking around 2012, but not for what you imply.
Coins & Currency however can be classified as the owner sees them - collection, investment, inventory. I stock nice brouse boxes of collector coins some as low as $10 per coin and under. I don’t do a limited subset of coinage / numismatic material so get get your facts straight lol. There are many countries I have handled besides US and have advanced expertise in. Ditto for my currency inventory.
I think collecting itself, not just coins, is part of human psyche. Not everyone collects things, but a lot of people collect things. If not coins, then something else will be accumulated and organized into a collection. It’s hardwired into some people and had survival value to our ancestors.
Coins are a relatively easy thing to collect and have a better chance at not becoming totally worthless like fad collecting items like beanie babies. I think that people will still continue to collect them and they won’t become totally worthless over time. Modern coins have less value without precious metal and things like state quarter sets are pretty much like beanie babies though. Some will still collect them out of a need to collect, but they will typically just be worth face value, but even that puts them a step above beanie babies.
Mr_Spud
Guns!
For fun I just looked up beanie babies on eBay. There are a bunch for sale, many with high price tags. But when I looked at completed items, over 95% didn’t sell at all. Of the ones that did sell, most were under $10. I did find one that sold for $45 and another sold for $100, but those seem to be exceptions. I don’t expect beanie baby collecting to survive.
I also asked google why do people collect things, here’s what Google AI said:
So, I’m thinking that, if we want to increase the probability that future generations will continue to collect coins, we should make sure that coin collecting fills the needs of people who need to collect.
Mr_Spud
If the need to collect stuff is hard-wired, I can't see any better option long term than old rare coins. Think of all the collecting fads that have faded out - beanies, pet rocks, cabbage patch dolls, stamps [ducks]. Coins just hang in there like nothing else. If coins go worthless, it will mean that collecting itself has gone the way of the dodo.
Not all coins though. Any modern thing that is designed to be a collectible I think will evaporate. I'm looking at you, clad proof sets, W Quarters, Cheerios dollars.