The higher crypto goes, the lower metals go
TwoSides2aCoin
Posts: 44,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
Or is this just my imagination ?
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TwoSides2aCoin
Posts: 44,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
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A large amount of money is moving from metals and short-term money funds (lower savings interest rates now) into tech stocks and crypto.
FOMO on their euphoric momentum rise. It is hard to know where this will end, billions are moving into crypto and AI stocks and related ETF's.
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Setting up another .com craze (and potential/eventual bust)? Perhaps.... this time..... really IS different?!
But meanwhile, I suppose, much money to be made.
tulips
I knew it would happen.
As the saying goes, get on the train or get left in the gutter. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Ummm.... sometimes it's best NOT to get on the train.... may be taking you somewhere you do not want to go. Just sayin'....
In the aggregate, without crypto/BTC....gold would almost certainly be higher, yes.
At the same time, gold and crypto/BTC have both gone up at the same time. When crypto/BTC go parabolic, that is where gold gets hit.
There's no doubt if you purchase "digital gold" you have less need for the real one.
My contacts from 30-plus years of investment management experience and 2 PB tenures tell me that newer crypto/Bitcoin buyers are taking $$$ from stocks, esp. speculative stocks, rather than bonds or money market funds.
It's definitely getting lots more attention than a few years ago, let alone a decade ago.
Interesting. Still, a lot of folks are selling, or not buying as many, mid and longer-term bonds as their rising interest rates confirm.
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VIX (UVXY up 42% in past week) is starting show this.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
The lower crypto goes, the higher metals go.
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At least one could smell and enjoy their craze.
Crypto is 1s and 0s.
Gold is gold.
fka renman95, Sep 2005, 7,000 posts
None of it is as good as cash in hand.
Gold is good for when the cash is worthless.
Digits (of all kinds) are good when speculating via the internet.
There should be enough cash under your mattress to get you through an internet blackout.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
It's like that JC song "I've been Everywhere" I've got cash everywhere man! My wallet, the bank, my bug-out vehicle, even got some down in the ole bunker. Personally, though I still prefer the Au. RGDS!!!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
I know nothing about crypto but how could people possibly think buying now after the way it’s been going is still going to make them billionaires
It's gone up six times in three years making many millionaires. Billionaires three years from now is not so far fetched, especially if those new millionaires continued to buy.
Like it or not, something that seems so invisible sure gets speculated a bunch.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
There seems to be no doubt that if more and more people adopt bitcoin and other blockchains, the prices will continue to rise. However, I still have trouble distinguishing between bitcoin and fiat.
They are both a form of fiat and they are both backed by thin air.
Even though I speculate on the price of precious metals, I still have trouble thinking that holding a percentage of my portfolio in bitcoin is advisable. I could be wrong, but I have an aversion to losing any amount of money in a ponzi scheme.
I knew it would happen.
My antidotal experience is similar. The gold bugs/stackers fit a pretty specific demographic. I don't see the under 30 crowd having much interest, in general, for precision metals, bonds or mm accounts. There are a ton of factors and reasons involved, but my guess is that the stacker/pm mentality will be greatly diminished in 20-30 years.
In 20-30 years they won't be young
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Yeah, but they will all be Quadrillionares. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Why do you consider bitcoin a currency?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Why do you consider bitcoin a currency?
If it isn't a wannabe currency, what would you call it?
I knew it would happen.
Digits. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
In the long run, how can crypto that is backed by nothing and legal tender nowhere compete with ones that are?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I dont consider it a currency. That's why I'm asking why you think it is.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I dont consider it a currency. That's why I'm asking why you think it is.
I didn't say that it's a currency. It's a wannabe currency, which means that it isn't a currency. Not the same.
I think it's a computer program that a lot of people are betting on.
What do you think it is?
I knew it would happen.
A means of the rich fleecing the poor.
Why do you think it's the same as the US dollar?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Why do you think it's the same as the US dollar?
It's similar in that there is no physical backing for it, but different than the dollar in that the dollar is defined as legal tender by gov.com
Both crypto and the dollar are subject to rapid deflation when sentiment changes to require physical backing due to loss of confidence in the dollar (and fiat currencies in general). Crypto won't escape unscathed. That day is coming much, much closer as a result of over-dependence on debt finance , in my opinion.
What is your assessment?
I knew it would happen.
I aint never seen one.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Why do you think it's the same as the US dollar?
What is your assessment?
I aint never seen one.
Thanks for your thought-provoking response.
So, to summarize - you think that crypto is the same as the dollar because you "aint never seen one".
Why the trolling?
I knew it would happen.
Over-dependence on debt finance? Say it isn't so!
Crypto isn't the same as the USD but it's creating rivers of cash for those on board. And that's all that matters in today's world. The risk is there but who cares?
We're gonna party like it's 1999 foretold a 21st century where the answer to debt is more debt. This thing has a couple decades to run imo.
I've seen lots of dollars. From your insistence that dollars and crypto are the same one could presume you have seem neither.
Have you ever see a bitcon?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
So coho (and everyone else who says you cant...), you can spend crypto as easy as dollars online and get atm cash from it minus the bs transaction fees but...you have to weight transaction costs depending on where you use it. I have. Have you? You say you can't so.....support your statements.
Bitcoin is taking a hit.
I’ve had more customers selling gold to buy crypto than using their profits from crypto to buy gold or anything else, for that matter. I get it , but I don’t get those who say they made “X” amount in crypto, but refuse to use it to transact for anything.
It ain't just your imagination. Sometimes, when crypto goes up, folks pull money out of metals like gold and silver to throw into digital assets, and that can cause metals to drop. It doesn’t always happen like that, though. Both markets can have their own cycles, but if you're seeing this happen often, it could be a sign of where people are shifting their money.
You simply have to ask yourself why central banks all over the world are buying gold instead of crypto.
If and when a CBDC is implemented in the US, do you really think that gov.com will allow cryptos to exist unless they can be used to tax every transaction and control your every action?
It's well past the time to re-evaluate. End the Fed. End the debt-based system. Time to make money real again and time to make the politicians accountable for what they spend "on our behalf".
I knew it would happen.
Politically unrealistic as no politician will tolerate 15% or 20% unemployment waiting for an exogenous shock to be adjusted to through internal devaluation. Your proposal might work in a barter-like economy with a few hundred thousand people but it won't work now. You sound like the Green radicals talking about how we need an economy based 100% on sustainable energy and to re-do $100 trillion in GDP.
You want the same thing, with a faux Gold Standard-like enforcement mechanism that simply won't work. I would tell you to read some of the academic papers or books that have come out in the last 30 years or so focusing on the demise of the Gold Standard and the reason it was unworkable in the inter-war period.
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This is what bankers always say, that a Gold Standard will not work. A gold standard (or any standard) does not benefit banks nearly as much as a fiat or debt-based currency system. Even when there was an official gold standard, banks got around it and made money by massive cheating on this standard (especially from 1913-1929). And they never had to pay for their cheating because in 1933 Roosevelt relieved them of all their gold obligations.
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Politically unrealistic as no politician will tolerate 15% or 20% unemployment waiting for an exogenous shock to be adjusted to through internal devaluation.
That's going to happen anyway, and it's going to happen exactly because the debt-based system is unsustainable, and has been for decades.
Your proposal might work in a barter-like economy with a few hundred thousand people but it won't work now. You sound like the Green radicals talking about how we need an economy based 100% on sustainable energy and to re-do $100 trillion in GDP.
blah, blah, blah - what I sound like is common sense - nobody merits having the power to create "money" at will for their own benefit. The value of money - whatever it is - depends on the effort and knowhow that goes into actual productivity, not someone else's say-so.
You want the same thing, with a faux Gold Standard-like enforcement mechanism that simply won't work.
Any standard other than calling debt creation "money" is more viable than out of control spending in a system that has ZERO accountability. Fiat currency and fractional reserve lending are both fraud from the very get-go. Fraud.
I would tell you to read some of the academic papers or books that have come out in the last 30 years or so focusing on the demise of the Gold Standard and the reason it was unworkable in the inter-war period.
Debt creation is the only way to keep financing wars of expansion. Bankers' wars. You should read some actual world and US history instead of your "academic papers".
I knew it would happen.
Does that scenario push silver to $100?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Come on yellow digit
....you know we're in an era of "we love the uneducated".
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Bitcoin is taking a hit. > @dcarr said:
There is no way to have $36,000,000,000,000 worth of gold. That would be 13,846,153,846 ounces. 432,692 tons of gold that one would have to mine just to back the current dollar. 36 cubic yards more than twice what has ever been mined. Never going to happen. God forbid if you used silver.
There is no way to have $36,000,000,000,000 worth of gold. That would be 13,846,153,846 ounces. 432,692 tons of gold that one would have to mine just to back the current dollar.
What backs the dollar currently? The full faith & credit of the US Government. Right? In other words, how much is _that _worth?
36 cubic yards more than twice what has ever been mined. Never going to happen. God forbid if you used silver.
Not at gold's current price, of course not.
God forbid if you used silver.
Not at silver's current price, of course not.
If the above is all true, the question remains - what should back the currency? What we have right now isn't working.
I knew it would happen.
They would not use gutter metal to back any currency. Not even that brics trash. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™