I am seeing more of this on eBay: Crack a PCGS problem coin and sell it raw.
braddick
Posts: 24,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am seeing more of this lately.
A PCGS problem coin will be broken out of the slab and then sold as an original
no problem coin.
This Questionable Toning PCGS Kennedy sold with this auction headline:
1964 Kennedy Half Dollar - PCGS Genuine UNC Details - Questionable Color
It is immediately cracked out and sold raw under the auction headline:
** 1964-P * PRISTINE+ GEM BU MS TONED KENNEDY HALF-DOLLAR * ORIGINAL COLLECTION
** GORGEOUS DUAL TONED MONSTER RAINBOW KENNEDY! **
It originally sold for $36.
It'll be interesting to see what the coin will sell for now.
peacockcoins
11
Comments
Bummer 😢
It's nothing new, unfortunately. This has been happening since the inception of grading. It's among the reasons I recommend sticking to certified coins if one insists on buying toners. In my opinion, the bigger issue is when obviously QC coins make into straight grade holders.
Can you post the ebay listing / item number so that I can add the seller to my "don't buy from this person" list?
Thanks.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
That is literally that seller's business model. They've been doing it for quite some time.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/167199190265
The seller is straight up honest. I had some like that that I knew were not AT that were QT'd, I cracked them and got them re-graded and in good grades. It is not worth resending it in. It is air toned, probably a Taco bell napkin coin and seems legit to me.
Some dealers will crack out a lustrous AU58 coin and sell it raw as a Mint State coin. Buying expensive raw coins is not for the faint of heart. Caveat emptor.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The seller sure like using that word "pristine" in their listings. There are lots of nice looking coins listed, but I would need them slabbed to be taken serious.
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The cynic in me believes it has always happened at a rather high frequency, but that the ability to track a coin through time and ownership makes finding the scenario far easier today than previous.
My response is toward the general idea of someone cracking a problem coin out of a holder and selling it raw instead of directed toward this particular instance.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Not that I am defending this seller at all, but this and every coin board are full of posts about how the TPG got it wrong. Good bad or otherwise.
It does feel a bit misleading, but I’m sure many here in this thread have cracked out coins to regrade at one time or another. This particular coin probably isn't worth the cost to grade again.
My Ebay Store
hello i am a new member here but i would like to ask if i can offer some coins here and if they have any value. ONE CENT-1959,1959D,1964,1967,1969D,1970D,1971,1972,1974S,1975,1976,1977,1978,1979,1979D,1982,1984,1985D,1986,1988,1989,1990,1991D,1993,1993D,1994D,1995,1996,1997,1997D,1998,1998D,1999D,2002
If you believe this seller is straight up honest, you may not be aware of the whole backstory. This seller has major ethical issues.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
It is generally considered rude to jump into someone else's thread with unrelated content, in the future you should start your own new thread. Yes you can advertise coins for sale but that needs to be done in the BST (buy, sell, trade) section of the forum. You can access that section by selecting it from the list on the right side of the screen.
However, unless your coins are graded and at least MS66 (really MS67) or higher the value of each coin is just one cent, it will cost you more to ship one or even all of them, than the coin(s) are worth.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
This has been a problem, it's still a problem, and it will continue to always be a problem unfortunately. As long as there are unscrupulous sellers cracking details coins and novice collectors buying raw coins from them, it will continue. All we can do is call this behavior out publicly frequently and vehemently.
As mentioned, this seller has a history of such practices. Several others do as well. I also agree with TomB that it is easier to detect some of these since we have more access to auction results and can track some of these down. I'm not a fan of this particular seller but @bigjpst makes a good point too; I am not too bothered with this particular coin since I could see others cracking it out since there is some debate if it's questionable or market acceptable.
It's making its way up. I wouldn't be surprised if it sold for more this time.
A lot of people won't buy a Details graded coin. Is it still one if it's no longer slabbed?
“Taco bell napkin coin” and “legit” do not belong in the same sentence.
That seller is one of the main culprits. This guy has been doing this very thing on eBay for many years now. Says they are out of a uncirculated bank wrap that he apparently has a never ending supply of. No matter how blatant he is, as long as eBay gets their money, they’ll let it go for as long as the bank rolls hold up.
Its a $20 coin, no one cares. Why are people worked up? What is the difference between that and a Wayte Raymond coin? Nothing.
Because they do it every day of the year on big coins also.
Everything from intentionality to appearance. There’s a reason why Wayte Raymond coins don’t typically get called QC and taco bell napkin coins do.
That seller uses mega-juiced photos as well. There are about 4 or 5 sellers that do this big time and they pollute my ebay searches unless I exclude them. It is amazing how these PCGS problems coins somehow find their way into “original rolls” 😆😆
I have a better question: why are you so hellbent on defending this seller who clearly has unscrupulous practices? I don’t think anyone in this thread has even gone into the issue of deceptive photography and lighting.
Lots of coins!
Looks like some strong sales.
Your posts in this thread make it clear that you’re unfamiliar with the seller’s history.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I find it interesting that the seller has 100% positive feedback. In the last year 3,204 positive, 7 neutral, and zero negative feedback. The buyers indicate they are very happy with the coins.
I guess many of the collectors buying these coins raw, do not get them graded.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I wish eBay made it as easy to block a seller as it is to block a buyer. I wish to permanently block these sellers from all my searches. How do you exclude these sellers from your searches?
This is proof that the old saying "Ignorance is bliss" is true.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
--- Is this different from someone who re-submits countless times to get a higher grade that might sell for 10x as much??
--- Is this different from someone who re-submits a coin that has been body-bagged until it gets holdered??
--- Is this different from the seller who lists a coin for sale with NO INFORMATION and lets the buyer make a choice??
All these and other things have been going on in the Hobby and at eBay for a long time. Caveat Emptor should always be the watch words for everyone. I know many members would like us to be above all this, but in reality Numismatics isn't much more evolved than sell automobiles.
I don't think it's that much of a big deal in my opinion.
Ebay does have return policies to protect the buyer.
The seller doesn't have to disclose the history of the coin and really why should pcgs have the last word?
It might very well straight grade at ngc or anacs.
Buying coins like this has far more protection for far less Money than Buying cars or real estate.
Those pics are so good they look AI generated. I learned my lesson many years not to buy raw coins on ebay. Occasionally, I go to a local auction house who holds many decent coin auctions every year from big estates. Even then I try to look at every angle with light, then cross my fingers. That 1893-S with the cheek pockmark, to my unprofessional eye, would be very tempting.
I just thought they had better lighting than me. How do you 'juice' photos to make them look like they have more luster?
Part of the business.
In its purest sense, a bit unethical, but in my opinion, nothing we should lose sleep over.
There's a lot worse things happening in our trade.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
That is all this seller does. Crack out problem coins, juice the photos, reap profits!
Here is where the GRAY area of Rule#2 (Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity,) comes to mind...........
sure seems like attacking to me.
Where is the LINE between informing the masses, and deflaming/attaking an individual?
Yes, yes and yes. And so are actions of sellers who juice/manipulate images to deceive and who lie about the provenance of their coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This has been happening on Ebay since the beginning of Ebay... But thanks for the sharp eye. I don't buy raw coins on Ebay..
Bad actors create deep fake videos that most people cannot even detect.
Sadly, juicing coin photos is extremely easy. Photoshop and other editors have all kinds of built-in tools to help. Thirty minutes of training and you could do it too.
I tried leaving negative feedback but eBay removed it. They protect him. He makes money for them.
Who buys a raw $600 coin... much less a $6k coin?
I had a negative once. Ebay will let you challenge. Mine stayed negative, then it fell off somehow months down the road when I was selling alot.
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This has been happening at coin shows since the beginning of 3rd party grading.
They only include the last 12 months in the data displayed
Totally agree.
I do not claim to be an expert grader but I do from time to time. And, despite a couple of whiffs/gambles on <$600 coins, I've done very well towards the higher end.
Usually that goes with shill bidders creating the illusion that the coin is a lot better than reality.
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Good ol Denver Coins!!
To exclude a seller from your search - to the right of the search button, hit the advanced link.
It gives you many options, towards the bottom is sellers
change the Include to Exclude and then enter all of your non-favorites
luckily all of my (skip these sellers) have a watermark or distinctive background so I know to not even bother looking
@jmlanzaf , yes and the beat goes on, and the beat goes on...