Question about marks or discoloration on a gold coin

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csdot
csdot Posts: 737 ✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

What do you make of the black marks on the eagle feathers and rim of this MS-63 coin? Gold is chemically inert, and doubt there is enough of other metals to result in this. Is it an unfortunate photographic relic? Something else? What causes it?

Indian Head $10 Gold Set Album

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  • hummingbird_coins
    hummingbird_coins Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    My guess is cabinet/album friction.

    Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
    Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled

  • Married2Coins
    Married2Coins Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
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    Dirt. I can't imagine how it could have come from a counting table though.

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,938 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I have seen black specks like this on $10 Indian coins. I had thought that they were a foreign substance in the metal.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • csdot
    csdot Posts: 737 ✭✭✭✭
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    I saw it in an auction, but the "dirty" look gave me pause. I took a lens to the two dozen or so Indians in my collection, and none of them have that look. Think I will pass on this item.

    Indian Head $10 Gold Set Album

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Married2Coins said:
    Dirt. I can't imagine how it could have come from a counting table though.

    Sliding across the leather

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • Cougar1978
    Cougar1978 Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5, 2024 3:45PM
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    It could be from biological attack. Beyond that consult a coin preservation specialist. Many them stored in cloth bank bags of for decades. Heat, humidity, salt air, microbes take your pick.

    Investor
  • zer0man
    zer0man Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
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    Learn to love the dirt.

  • Married2Coins
    Married2Coins Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Married2Coins said:
    Dirt. I can't imagine how it could have come from a counting table though.

    Sliding across the leather

    So let's see...I'm learning something here. There is leather in the counting room on the tables? Then this coin slid across some leather in a counting room sometime in the past and finally reached this forum with the dirt still attached? Besides your post, do you have a source for this info. Apparently another member suggested the counting room also. I was not there but I'll respectfully need to say NUTS! I have heard this is found on coins from Europe. I have also read an article some time ago in Numismatic News that dirt is applied to fhe high points of coins to make them look more original. IMO, this was not done to the OP's coin.

    @BillJones said:
    I have seen black specks like this on $10 Indian coins. I had thought that they were a foreign substance in the metal.

    I have too. Many times the impurity is surrounded by a discoloration. That is not the case with the OP's coin. It is dirt. Run the coin under hot water and it will remove the black stuff. One of my $5 Indians had the same look and the water tool it off.

  • csdot
    csdot Posts: 737 ✭✭✭✭
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    I am the OP and for clarification I saw the coin pop up yesterday in an auction. While I wish the seller to rinse it and have it reholdered, I don't see that in the cards. I will wait for another example to come along.

    Thanks for all the helpful responses. o:)

    Indian Head $10 Gold Set Album

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,175 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Coins in general are dirty. Counting tables acquire dirt from some coins and redistribute it onto other coins. There is absolutely no reason to clean the table between batches.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2024 12:35AM
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    @Married2Coins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Married2Coins said:
    Dirt. I can't imagine how it could have come from a counting table though.

    Sliding across the leather

    So let's see...I'm learning something here. There is leather in the counting room on the tables? Then this coin slid across some leather in a counting room sometime in the past and finally reached this forum with the dirt still attached? Besides your post, do you have a source for this info. Apparently another member suggested the counting room also. I was not there but I'll respectfully need to say NUTS! I have heard this is found on coins from Europe. I have also read an article some time ago in Numismatic News that dirt is applied to fhe high points of coins to make them look more original. IMO, this was not done to the OP's coin.

    @BillJones said:
    I have seen black specks like this on $10 Indian coins. I had thought that they were a foreign substance in the metal.

    I have too. Many times the impurity is surrounded by a discoloration. That is not the case with the OP's coin. It is dirt. Run the coin under hot water and it will remove the black stuff. One of my $5 Indians had the same look and the water tool it off.

    I really can't know how it got dirty. Someone suggested counting tables (in the early 20th century) and someone asked how that could happen. I told you how it COULD happen. It's also possible that the coin simply got dropped onto the greasy mint floor or was handled by an oily mechanic. But such high point dirtiness is so common that you would think some of them have a common, coin-related source.

    Bottom line: it's dirt.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • Married2Coins
    Married2Coins Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
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    Thanks for the direct response. We both agree it is dirt. I think most old timers will agree is is especially found on the gold coins coming from the European banks long ago but over the years it tends to be removed. A grading instructor told us that when he worked ant NGC, lots of AU $5 Indians where sent in that had this dirt and that it was put on by coin doctors because "dirty gold" = original gold. How a professional grader can tell the difference beats me.

  • Cougar1978
    Cougar1978 Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2024 7:59PM
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    It is a C coin IMO. The black stuff - Carbon spots? Have u shopped it around the bourse at a show.

    Investor
  • ReadyFireAim
    ReadyFireAim Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The 15-S Saint is generally a pretty uninteresting coin.
    This is the only one I have ever seen with any kind of toning so I'll excuse the bit of dirt.
    Picked it up years ago for below what is now melt price and it's still in my #1 set.
    Don't worry about dirt if you like it :)

    My Saint Set

  • csdot
    csdot Posts: 737 ✭✭✭✭
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    @Cougar1978 said:
    It is a C coin IMO. The black stuff - Carbon spots? Have u shopped it around the bourse at a show.

    Not my coin. Saw it on eBay.

    Indian Head $10 Gold Set Album

  • steveben
    steveben Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    it's a visual accumulation of time

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