Is coin collecting a declining hobby?

dlmtorts · September 15, 2024 4:53PM

I have been a small time collector for 55+ years and have no intention of getting out. But, I fear coin collecting is a hobby on the decline.

Many collectors like me began collecting coins from circulation to fill albums. Also, many collectors began collecting coins like wheaties or silver coins from circulation. Nowdays, there doesn’t seem to be much use of coins. The younger generation seems to use cards and toss coins into a jar to be redeemed later for cash or another card. There does not seem to be a significant number of new collectors pulling coins from circulation. No big demand for Lincoln memorial cents nor clad. I know I am making a lot of assumptions here but I fear we share a hobby that is in decline with little likelihood of circumstances changing. I would like to hear others thoughts. Where will a significant number of of new collectors come from?

Cougar1978 · September 15, 2024 4:59PM

Idk about that but many like just bulking up, stacking nice coins.

jmlanzaf · September 15, 2024 5:36PM

There is no reason why you need to pull coins from circulation to create collectors. You can't pull wine, comic books, sports cars or sports cards from circulation and those hobbies are doing fine.

But I don't really care if the hobby dies. I do it because I like it. If no one else does, it won't change my feelings or activities at all.

Mr_Spud · September 15, 2024 5:37PM

Things are different, maybe too many design changes with quarters and also lesser amounts of change for the other denominations these days to stimulate collecting out of circulation, but when the state quarters first started coming out people talked about how many new collectors they were bringing to the hobby. People were saying the new quarter collectors started getting interested in classic coins once they started enjoying their quarters. So maybe that wave is over and too many designs to start collecting out of circulation. These days on Facebook and sometimes here there are non-stop queries about dryer coins, ring of death coins and other PMD. Maybe there’s a way to channel some of them into becoming long term collectors? Not sure 🤔

1madman · September 15, 2024 5:40PM

If you’ve collected for 55 years, what were your thoughts in 1989/1990 with the violent crash in prices? Was that a buying opportunity or the sky is falling moment for you?

TwoSides2aCoin · September 15, 2024 5:55PM

No. I’d say it’s more reclining than declining.

bigjpst · September 15, 2024 6:01PM

It’s easy for us to think it’s declining because it is changing. Young people are coming into the hobby in other venues. We have numerous threads here about how they are doing it wrong because they are doing it differently than we did.

JimTyler · September 15, 2024 6:05PM

Coin collecting is an old farts hobby (mostly) and with the internet our recliners are the new coin show. Might make more collectors since it’s easier

cladking · September 15, 2024 6:19PM

Coin collecting was certainly a declining hobby in the early-'90's. You couldn't even give coins away unless they were $100,000 or more. It picked up when Diane Wolfe started the crusade to change designs and the state quarters were contemplated. Millions of baby boomers returned to the hobby and more millions of young states quarters collectors started.

It is most assuredly not on its way out today. In fact I don't think there's even much of a downturn in most areas though some of the popular older coins in very common conditions are going through a weak time. Anything that's not typical or same 'ol same 'ol has a market and many are strong or at least solid.

I expect weak areas to improve in time and increasing strength almost across the board. World coins are poised for spectacular increases. I see more and more anecdotal evidence every day that people are collecting these coins and many by date and denomination. The coins are all perceived to be common because of their low prices but in reality there are countless rarities and they can't meet any significant demand.

Coin collecting should be safe for decades after the last coins are minted.

ajaan · September 16, 2024 7:28AM

IMO coin collecting YES. Coin investing NO.

jmlanzaf · September 16, 2024 7:29AM

@ajaan said:
IMO coin collecting YES. Coin investing NO.

Good luck with that

Manifest_Destiny · September 16, 2024 7:48AM

Well, major coin shows now provide an in-house nurse and on site pharmacy services, so yeah.

ajaan · September 16, 2024 9:22AM

@jmlanzaf said:

@ajaan said:
IMO coin collecting YES. Coin investing NO.

Good luck with thar

At no point did I say successful investing.

NeophyteNumismatist · September 16, 2024 9:58AM

I am not sure if it's declining, but it's changing for sure. I have only been collecting a very short time compared to most, but I have seen lots of changes.

Several posts here and ATS show that traditional collectors who sell their modern albums of Lincoln Cents, Roosevelt Dimes, Jefferson Nickels and Kennedy Half Dollars are disappointed in the results of the sale. It seems that this old school collecting is falling out of favor.
To parlay from the above, more collectors seem to be buying graded coins than ever before. Many dealers in my area have moved away from selling raw coins, and I se the same at shows.
CACG shows that there is continued focus on high quality items. Again, this one comes with its controversy, but also demonstrates further investment in the marketplace.
Several new "Break Box" products have been released. This has caused quite a stir in the marketplace and the forums. However, these continue to sell and copycat products are also successful. While this is not my style of collecting, it certainly has made a splash.

pcgscacgold · September 16, 2024 10:03AM

The largest transfer of wealth in history is underway. As much as $84 Trillion will be passed down. My bet is some of that inheritance will find its way into the hobby (as well as other hobbies).

Creg · September 16, 2024 10:21AM

I hesitate to opine that interest does grow in the direction of tokens and medallions that are inspired by interest in popular culture, but those are only the whisperings that I hear in the eBay landfill.

Overdate · September 16, 2024 10:23AM

When I began collecting, the dollar was worth 10 times today's dollar in purchasing power. Coins were a constant presence in everyone's lives because they were needed for everyday purchases. There were fewer leisure activities competing for everyone's attention - no internet, no smartphones, no social media, no texting, no home video games, no streaming services, no chatbots.

It's a whole different world now. Thanks to inflation, coins have lost most of their utility in retail commerce and have transitioned from a convenience into an inconvenience. And people now have many other ways to enjoy their leisure time. Coin collecting is not about to go away, but I don't see it ever reclaiming its former popularity.

Swampboy · September 16, 2024 10:31AM

I brough 3 into the hobby this year.
All of them have attended shows and bought coins online (which is code for they're 'paying their tuition')

Then there's my 7 year old nephew who knows I'm a collector and had his Mom drive him over so he could give me these coins he minted on a train track.

None of this answers the question in the OP
Just random observations

sellitstore · September 17, 2024 6:36AM

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that interest in coins in cyclical. That's what I've noticed and heard for the last 55 years. It's true.

Manifest_Destiny · September 17, 2024 7:52AM

I think ultimately coin collecting will go the way of stamps. It will become a two tier market. No one will care about common stuff but the truly rare or high grade coins will probably continue to do well. The days are gone, and not coming back, when every kid had a Whitman folder of Lincoln cents.

privatecoin · September 17, 2024 11:03AM

@Manifest_Destiny said:
I think ultimately coin collecting will go the way of stamps. It will become a two tier market. No one will care about common stuff but the truly rare or high grade coins will probably continue to do well. The days are gone, and not coming back, when every kid had a Whitman folder of Lincoln cents.

There is one significant difference. Coins have material value. Stamps dont.

PeakRarities · September 17, 2024 11:09AM

Agree with @sellitstore about the cyclical nature of the hobby. The pendulum swings back and forth, but humans have collected coins for thousands of years, and I dont expect that to change anytime soon. As the boomer generation ages out, however, I wouldn't be surprised to see the demand for the 20th century issues weaken gradually. I believe interest in the classic, more historical 18th and 19th century issues could continue to strengthen, but I would agree that the overall number of collectors by percentage of the population will ultimately shrink.

jmlanzaf · September 17, 2024 11:50AM

@privatecoin said:

@Manifest_Destiny said:
I think ultimately coin collecting will go the way of stamps. It will become a two tier market. No one will care about common stuff but the truly rare or high grade coins will probably continue to do well. The days are gone, and not coming back, when every kid had a Whitman folder of Lincoln cents.

There is one significant difference. Coins have material value. Stamps dont.

The material value of a modern Lincoln cent is no higher, and actually lower, than a modern unused stamp.

I would not stake anything on the small intrinsic value of your coins. I mean, I will gladly pay melt for all your CC dollars, today and until my death. But I'm not sure that's going to preserve the coin market very much.

jmlanzaf · September 17, 2024 11:53AM

@PeakRarities said:
Agree with @sellitstore about the cyclical nature of the hobby. The pendulum swings back and forth, but humans have collected coins for thousands of years, and I dont expect that to change anytime soon. As the boomer generation ages out, however, I wouldn't be surprised to see the demand for the 20th century issues weaken gradually. I believe interest in the classic, more historical 18th and 19th century issues could continue to strengthen, but I would agree that the overall number of collectors by percentage of the population will ultimately shrink.

Very few people collected coins for most of those "thousands of years". Almost none for the first 2200 years until the Renaissance and very few between then and the 19th century.

PeakRarities · September 17, 2024 12:11PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@PeakRarities said:
Agree with @sellitstore about the cyclical nature of the hobby. The pendulum swings back and forth, but humans have collected coins for thousands of years, and I dont expect that to change anytime soon. As the boomer generation ages out, however, I wouldn't be surprised to see the demand for the 20th century issues weaken gradually. I believe interest in the classic, more historical 18th and 19th century issues could continue to strengthen, but I would agree that the overall number of collectors by percentage of the population will ultimately shrink.

Very few people collected coins for most of those "thousands of years". Almost none for the first 2200 years until the Renaissance and very few between then and the 19th century.

While that may be true, my point was that humans have always had a tendency to collect something, and despite a lessening percentage of collectors I expect that to continue for the forseeable future.

Walkerfan · September 17, 2024 12:27PM

I don’t think it’s dying. There are a ton of youngsters on YouTube and Instagram, both buyers and sellers. The demand is there, but the technology is changing. Instead of looking for pocket change, they are investing in high-end, rare Slabbed Coins. Will the market collapse? I don’t think it will happen, in my lifetime, barring an economic or political calamity.

Coinscratch · September 17, 2024 1:05PM

Let's see, worn out silver dollar or a cell phone...How many people starring at their cell phone are actually looking at coins, besides me. The mint needs to create a reason like West Point Quarter hunt (except 10,000,00 was way too many).
The hobby only needs a spark to create a feeding frenzy like a new discovery. Something that says 1,000,000 dollars.

jmlanzaf · September 17, 2024 1:19PM

@PeakRarities said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@PeakRarities said:
Agree with @sellitstore about the cyclical nature of the hobby. The pendulum swings back and forth, but humans have collected coins for thousands of years, and I dont expect that to change anytime soon. As the boomer generation ages out, however, I wouldn't be surprised to see the demand for the 20th century issues weaken gradually. I believe interest in the classic, more historical 18th and 19th century issues could continue to strengthen, but I would agree that the overall number of collectors by percentage of the population will ultimately shrink.

Very few people collected coins for most of those "thousands of years". Almost none for the first 2200 years until the Renaissance and very few between then and the 19th century.

While that may be true, my point was that humans have always had a tendency to collect something, and despite a lessening percentage of collectors I expect that to continue for the forseeable future.

I don't mean to imply an imminent demise. However, I also counsel against complacency which largely consists of rationalizations. In the 50s and 60s, philatelics was a much bigger hobby than numismatics. It isn't anymore. And the whole way down, stamp collectors called every dip "a buying opportunity".

Intrinsic value only helps for items with no numismatic value. And history helps not at all as tastes do change over time. For example, my students carry zero cash and do not own TVs. I'm not sure in the 1980s would have predicted the demise of wristwatches, televisions and cash.

Catbert · September 17, 2024 1:24PM

@jmlanzaf said:

However, I also counsel against complacency which largely consists of rationalizations.

Dr. jmlanzaf - what would we do without your wisdom?

jmlanzaf · September 17, 2024 1:24PM

@Catbert said:

@jmlanzaf said:

However, I also counsel against complacency which largely consists of rationalizations.

Dr. jmlanzaf - what would we do without your wisdom?

I sometimes wonder.

Walkerfan · September 17, 2024 1:34PM

@Catbert said:

@jmlanzaf said:

However, I also counsel against complacency which largely consists of rationalizations.

Dr. jmlanzaf - what would we do without your wisdom?

I don’t know 🤷‍♂️ But for someone who doesn’t think coins are a good investment and that the hobby is dying, he certainly has a lot to say about it! 🤣

FrankH · September 17, 2024 3:45PM

@sellitstore said:
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that interest in coins in cyclical. That's what I've noticed and heard for the last 55 years. It's true.

The cycles are age and interest.

hummingbird_coins · September 17, 2024 4:05PM

@FrankH said:

@sellitstore said:
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that interest in coins in cyclical. That's what I've noticed and heard for the last 55 years. It's true.

The cycles are age and interest.

Also worth noting - the degree to which an interested individual has the room for the hobby in their life could be determined by time, money, or other factors. I think this is why the collector base seems to skew older at any point in time.

ShaunBC5 · September 17, 2024 4:18PM

I think the hobby is pretty fine. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to see the market change to where we see “low” prices for common stuff and “high” prices for nicer/rarer coins, and not much action in between.
Non-ancient coins have pretty great records regarding mintage numbers and great estimations on survivorship. I think that helps in comparison to some other hobbies. I also think that coins are real and harken to a time of real in-person commerce that doesn’t exist anymore and I think that’s a plus for the hobby. I have never collected from circulation probably neither has anyone my age (early 40s). For the most part, the only cash I use these days is to buy coins at a shop or show.
The hobby isn’t growing as fast as I’d like, but I don’t think it’s dying.

OAKSTAR · September 17, 2024 4:28PM

@dlmtorts said:
Is coin collecting a declining hobby?

I hope it is, more coins for us! 🤣 👍

jmlanzaf · September 17, 2024 5:17PM

@Walkerfan said:

@Catbert said:

@jmlanzaf said:

However, I also counsel against complacency which largely consists of rationalizations.

Dr. jmlanzaf - what would we do without your wisdom?

I don’t know 🤷‍♂️ But for someone who doesn’t think coins are a good investment and that the hobby is dying, he certainly has a lot to say about it! 🤣

I never said the hobby was dying. And I, among many, don't think any collectibles are "good investments". But, if I have feelings about the future of the hobby, this would seem to be the thread to discuss them. But feel free to discuss me instead.

Manifest_Destiny · September 17, 2024 5:43PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@Walkerfan said:

@Catbert said:

@jmlanzaf said:

However, I also counsel against complacency which largely consists of rationalizations.

Dr. jmlanzaf - what would we do without your wisdom?

I don’t know 🤷‍♂️ But for someone who doesn’t think coins are a good investment and that the hobby is dying, he certainly has a lot to say about it! 🤣

I never said the hobby was dying. And I, among many, don't think any collectibles are "good investments". But, if I have feelings about the future of the hobby, this would seem to be the thread to discuss them. But feel free to discuss me instead.

Can I meme you instead?

spacehayduke · September 17, 2024 6:15PM

@JimTyler said:
Coin collecting is an old farts hobby (mostly) and with the internet our recliners are the new coin show. Might make more collectors since it’s easier

Really? Then who are all of these YN’s I keep meeting at shows?

OAKSTAR · September 17, 2024 6:23PM

@spacehayduke said:

@JimTyler said:
Coin collecting is an old farts hobby (mostly) and with the internet our recliners are the new coin show. Might make more collectors since it’s easier

Really? Then who are all of these YN’s I keep meeting at shows?

@spacehayduke - @JimTyler isn't completely wrong! 🤣

jmlanzaf · September 17, 2024 6:35PM

@Manifest_Destiny said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Walkerfan said:

@Catbert said:

@jmlanzaf said:

However, I also counsel against complacency which largely consists of rationalizations.

Dr. jmlanzaf - what would we do without your wisdom?

I don’t know 🤷‍♂️ But for someone who doesn’t think coins are a good investment and that the hobby is dying, he certainly has a lot to say about it! 🤣

I never said the hobby was dying. And I, among many, don't think any collectibles are "good investments". But, if I have feelings about the future of the hobby, this would seem to be the thread to discuss them. But feel free to discuss me instead.

Can I meme you instead?

Yes, please

cameonut2011 · September 17, 2024 6:50PM

Yes. The younger generations with exceptions are minimalists and don’t like clutter. Many hobby areas have been affected as a result.

There is also the issue of manipulation with TPG services and their grading guarantees which have been watered down over time to weaken them with ever growing list of exclusions which are applied retroactively. These are further eroded by grade inflation. Few collectors are dealers can even seemingly grade anymore or look beyond the label. CAC brings on a whole different level of market quirks and manipulation. Whether you like CAC or not, it does more than rank coins. It is also a market maker creating artificial price floors. As any basic economics course will teach, that in itself leads to market inefficiencies. There is simply too much market manipulation for many collectors to feel comfortable buying nicer coins and if you can’t buy what you like without losinf your rear, then what is the point? You can enjoy images, lot viewing, and research the historical significance without significant in hand accumulations.

Manifest_Destiny · September 17, 2024 7:01PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@Manifest_Destiny said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Walkerfan said:

@Catbert said:

@jmlanzaf said:

However, I also counsel against complacency which largely consists of rationalizations.

Dr. jmlanzaf - what would we do without your wisdom?

I don’t know 🤷‍♂️ But for someone who doesn’t think coins are a good investment and that the hobby is dying, he certainly has a lot to say about it! 🤣

I never said the hobby was dying. And I, among many, don't think any collectibles are "good investments". But, if I have feelings about the future of the hobby, this would seem to be the thread to discuss them. But feel free to discuss me instead.

Can I meme you instead?

Yes, please

dlmtorts · September 17, 2024 7:26PM

The rising price of metals will keep some flocking to gold and silver coins. It creates a problem for some. I was always told to buy the best grade you can afford. Most modern silver coins are easily found uncirculated. I, for one, refuse to part with some of them because they really have little numismatic value over melt. Seems to me uncirculated 70 tear old coins should have more value, but there are so many of them.

Grading has changed over time too. BU, Choice BU and Gem BU are terms no longer used. Gem BU equated with MS 65 when numerical grading was taking over. Now MS 65 seems to be common and most such moderns have declined in value. There are so many MS 67’s now, as can be seen every week at Great Collections and others,

Most coin shops could not exist without bulk gold and silver. But that really is a different business than coin collecting.

Seems to me that it would be harder to develop an interest iwhen coins are hardly used. That will lead to some decline. The bigger question may be, will that decline feed on itself

dlmtorts · September 17, 2024 7:29PM

@1madman said:
If you’ve collected for 55 years, what were your thoughts in 1989/1990 with the violent crash in prices? Was that a buying opportunity or the sky is falling moment for you?

I was a young in my career and building for the future at that point. I also had young children. So, I had no time or disposable income then. For me, it really made no difference because I was in a holding pattern. That seems to be a recurrent theme with life long collectors.

Walkerfan · September 17, 2024 8:11PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@Walkerfan said:

@Catbert said:

@jmlanzaf said:

However, I also counsel against complacency which largely consists of rationalizations.

Dr. jmlanzaf - what would we do without your wisdom?

I don’t know 🤷‍♂️ But for someone who doesn’t think coins are a good investment and that the hobby is dying, he certainly has a lot to say about it! 🤣

I never said the hobby was dying. And I, among many, don't think any collectibles are "good investments". But, if I have feelings about the future of the hobby, this would seem to be the thread to discuss them. But feel free to discuss me instead.

Lighten up. It was just a little friendly ribbing.

Cougar1978 · September 17, 2024 8:24PM

IDK

It definitely is not competitive with certain video games or sports, entertainment venues.

If somebody is taking coins out of circ and putting into albums certainly collecting.

The 1989 crash / 1990 post crash was an opportunity for players pickup stuff they before could not afford. So winners and losers.

The next crash wb similar to 89 but more of a correction - world material goes up US goes down as both like molten rock commingle at a common level.

john_nyc1 · September 17, 2024 8:30PM

Obviously a dying hobby. But it will out survive all except the youngest on this forum. So.. I’m good.

Bikergeek · September 17, 2024 10:36PM

Metrics matter. A quick bit of googling on one of the metrics that I find interesting, specifically, attendance at ANA conventions.

FIrst: World's Fair of Money.
This thread on this forum has a table:
2009, Los Angeles total Attendance: 7727
2010, Boston total Attendance: 10204
2011, Chicago total Attendance: 9113
2012, Pennsylvania total Attendance: 8810
2013, Chicago total Attendance: 9082
2014, Chicago total Attendance: 12,642
2015, Chicago total Attendance: 8,635
2016, Anaheim total Attendance: 8,192
2017, Denver total Attendance: 8638

More I tried to find:
2018, Philadelphia: 9,939
2019 (?)
2020, canceled due to Covid-19
2021, Chicago: 7,255
2022 Chicago: 8,963
2023, Pittsburgh and it was my first WFOM - well attended, but I couldn't find exact figures.
2024, Chicago: >9,000

And the ANA's National Money Show.
This article shows:

But it picks up in 2024, with 4,306 attendees.

PeakRarities · September 17, 2024 11:21PM

@Bikergeek said:
Metrics matter. A quick bit of googling on one of the metrics that I find interesting, specifically, attendance at ANA conventions.

FIrst: World's Fair of Money.
This thread on this forum has a table:
2009, Los Angeles total Attendance: 7727
2010, Boston total Attendance: 10204
2011, Chicago total Attendance: 9113
2012, Pennsylvania total Attendance: 8810
2013, Chicago total Attendance: 9082
2014, Chicago total Attendance: 12,642
2015, Chicago total Attendance: 8,635
2016, Anaheim total Attendance: 8,192
2017, Denver total Attendance: 8638

More I tried to find:
2018, Philadelphia: 9,939
2019 (?)
2020, canceled due to Covid-19
2021, Chicago: 7,255
2022 Chicago: 8,963
2023, Pittsburgh and it was my first WFOM - well attended, but I couldn't find exact figures.
2024, Chicago: >9,000

And the ANA's National Money Show.
This article shows:

But it picks up in 2024, with 4,306 attendees.

What exactly do you find to be interesting? Looks fairly stable to me.

Goldminers · September 18, 2024 2:56AM

The stability is interesting.
It is encouraging to see some relevant data, instead of only speculation.

jmlanzaf · September 18, 2024 3:09AM

@Goldminers said:
The stability is interesting.
It is encouraging to see some relevant data, instead of only speculation.

I'm not sure that tells you anything definitive about the overall market. During that same time, our 70-year-old annual club show has seen dealer tables and attendance decline significantly. However, at the same time internet groups have grown astronomically.

Part of the problem is even defining what constitutes a "coin collector".

Is coin collecting a declining hobby?

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