What are the worst sports trades/draft picks that looked bad right from the start, NOT in hindsight!

Estil · July 4, 2024 4:00AM

See anytime I try to google/YouTube search/whatever anything involving the worst trades or draft picks or whatnot, nearly all of them are only saying it in hindsight but that's not really fair. When those decisions are made there are NO crystal balls!! But surely there are some, as officialjaguargator9 would say, there ones that really looked bad right from the start. These were moves where your gut instinct was telling you there is NO way this could work, and sure enough, your gut instinct was smarter than that of a major league GM/owner/whatever.

I'll start you off with this one; apparently having not learned from the Herschel Walker trade earlier in the decade how incredibly unwise it is to put all (or nearly all) your eggs in one basket, eh I mean player. I'd say (even at the time) folks thought this made about as much sense as putting all your worldly possessions on a single number bet on the roulette wheel:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Williams_trade

Remember, they must've looked really bad, nearly sure for a disaster at the time. Judging these kinds of things by hindsight is cheating and too easy...did I forget to mention there are no such things as real crystal balls?

LandrysFedora · July 4, 2024 8:42AM

Not a trade/draft pick but off the top of my head, I'll say the Jets throwing 75 mil to Aaron Rodgers for 2 years at this point of his career. I obviously had no crystal ball telling me he would tear his achilles but that deal just seemed like a bad one for the Jets to me from the get-go.

dallasactuary · July 4, 2024 9:56AM

The Minnesota Vikings trading the future of their franchise for Herschel Walker.

Estil · July 4, 2024 12:54PM

@dallasactuary said:
The Minnesota Vikings trading the future of their franchise for Herschel Walker.

And like I said, apparently the Electric Avenue and More guy didn't learn from that mistake and if anything, REALLY went all in on one guy. Didn't George Strait say don't put it all on the line for just one player?

Basebal21 · July 4, 2024 1:09PM

The Saints trading their entire draft, plus another 1st and 3rd rounder for Rickey Williams

The Red Sox selling Babe Ruth

AJ Prellers trade for Juan Soto is the worst trade in baseball history. 3 top 10 prospects (2 of which had already proven to be good major leaguers), another top 25 prospect, and just because that wasnt enough a teenager that throws 100. The Nationals just kept saying no and he just kept offering more and more and more

GroceryRackPack · July 4, 2024 1:16PM

Harry Chiti // Harry Chiti

Jim Fregosi // Nolan Ryan

Ernie Broglio // Lou Brock

Gerry Perry // Dick Night-Train Lane

Estil · July 4, 2024 2:27PM

@Basebal21 said:
The Red Sox selling Babe Ruth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt9L78iYTmk

No that actually made perfect sense at the time. The Babe was clearly getting too big for his britches and wearing out his welcome in Boston and he was clearly a MUCH better fit in New York in both baseball and lifestyle. Had the Red Sox kept him, he certainly would've become a great HOFer sure but he wouldn't be a national icon that even most non-baseball fans have at least heard of Babe Ruth. Let me put it to you this way, how many non-baseball fans outside of New England know who Ted Williams is?

And it's obvious Harry Frazee;s fist love all this time was making his plays, which he wasn't all that good at. But (and this often gets mixed up) when he finally did hit it big with No, No, Nanette and the mortgage on Fenway Park that was part of the Ruth sale was able to be paid off.

ElMagoStrikeZone · July 4, 2024 2:34PM

Ryan Leaf

Basebal21 · July 4, 2024 2:41PM

@Estil said:

@Basebal21 said:
The Red Sox selling Babe Ruth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt9L78iYTmk

No that actually made perfect sense at the time. The Babe was clearly getting too big for his britches and wearing out his welcome in Boston and he was clearly a MUCH better fit in New York in both baseball and lifestyle. Had the Red Sox kept him, he certainly would've become a great HOFer sure but he wouldn't be a national icon that even most non-baseball fans have at least heard of Babe Ruth. Let me put it to you this way, how many non-baseball fans outside of New England know who Ted Williams is?

And it's obvious Harry Frazee;s fist love all this time was making his plays, which he wasn't all that good at. But (and this often gets mixed up) when he finally did hit it big with No, No, Nanette and the mortgage on Fenway Park that was part of the Ruth sale was able to be paid off.

Babe Ruth has a candy bar named after him and countless movies like the Sandlot that reference him. He was also the homerun leader for a long time which is why hes more famous the Williams, not because of being in the New York market vs the Boston market. The only help that really did was create the curse of Ruth for Boston which gave him even more fame.

It really never made any sense to just go a sell arguably the best player of all time given that he could pitch and hit and do both at a very high level.

Financially and for his personal wealth standpoint it made sense, from a baseball perspective it made no sense though

Estil · July 4, 2024 4:11PM

Actually the candy bar was named after Grover Cleveland's daughter:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Ruth

Basebal21 · July 4, 2024 5:01PM

@Estil said:
Actually the candy bar was named after Grover Cleveland's daughter:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Ruth

True but more people associate it with the Babe than Grovers daughter. Even though its not accurate it did add to his fame. Also a very underrated candy bar

bgr · July 4, 2024 9:40PM

I associate it with yum. But I enjoyed the chill factoid-drop. Didn’t know that.

Estil · July 5, 2024 7:42AM

@Basebal21 said:
Babe Ruth has a candy bar named after him and countless movies like the Sandlot that reference him. He was also the homerun leader for a long time which is why hes more famous the Williams, not because of being in the New York market vs the Boston market. The only help that really did was create the curse of Ruth for Boston which gave him even more fame.

It really never made any sense to just go a sell arguably the best player of all time given that he could pitch and hit and do both at a very high level.

Financially and for his personal wealth standpoint it made sense, from a baseball perspective it made no sense though

That's not exactly what I'm saying. In our original time line (OTL) Ruth is indeed the homerun leader but it was in New York what truly matched his lifestyle where he could truly fully blossom both as a player and his lifestyle. In the alternate time line (ATL) where he stayed in Boston, he would've been a great HOF player (would Fenway have allowed him to hit more or less homeruns? Remember in 1920 and 1921 when he hit 54 and 59 taters the Yankees were sharing the Polo Grounds with the Giants so he was able to hit cheap homeruns near the foul poles...though on the other side of the coin the center field area went out to 480ish feet, so there's that.

What I'm trying to say is had Ruth stayed in Boston (somehow; like I said he was really REALLY wearing out his welcome and was demanding too much money as we seen in that Top Five Reasons episode) he would've been like Ted Williams (who probably would've also hit about as many home runs had it not been for WWII)...a great HOF player but not someone most non-baseball fans would know of even decades later. Seriously, even today (in our OTL), because Ruth was able to be a larger than life legend way above and beyond the baseball world, who hasn't at least heard of Babe Ruth?

Estil · July 5, 2024 7:47AM

@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Ryan Leaf

He already had a really flagrant bad attitude long before draft day, correct? Even if he had indeed turned out to be a great player being that much of a locker room cancer couldn't have possibly been worth it.

SanctionII · July 5, 2024 10:13AM

6'11" Chris Washburn, from N.C. State, was drafted #3 in the 1986 NBA draft. He was 20 years old and a drug addict (cocaine). In addition to his drug addiction he was in trouble with the law. His NBA career lasted 2 seasons (with the Warriors and the Hawks), averaging 3.1 points and 2.4 rebounds per game. Washburn received a lifetime NBA ban in June 1989 after failing three drug tests in three years.

GS made a big mistake in drafting him; and I suspect that GS knew of his drug addiction before the draft.

ElMagoStrikeZone · July 5, 2024 11:52AM

@Estil said:

@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Ryan Leaf

He already had a really flagrant bad attitude long before draft day, correct? Even if he had indeed turned out to be a great player being that much of a locker room cancer couldn't have possibly been worth it.

He was a complete disaster from Day 1. Though it couldn't necessarily be assumed, his future was never going to add up to the guy drafted ahead of him at #1 - Peyton Manning.

If you need a perfect definition of Polar Opposites, those two guys would be your poster boys.

Estil · July 5, 2024 1:04PM

@ElMagoStrikeZone said:

He was a complete disaster from Day 1. Though it couldn't necessarily be assumed, his future was never going to add up to the guy drafted ahead of him at #1 - Peyton Manning.

If you need a perfect definition of Polar Opposites, those two guys would be your poster boys.

So which QB would've been a better choice (remember no crystal balls)? You know how such a huge deal is made about Sam Bowie being drafted ahead of Michael Jordan? Well the fact of the matter was that Portland was already very well covered at the guard positions (especially Clyde Drexler) and I'm pretty sure no one at the time thought Jordan was any kind of greatest of all time player material, correct?

Even so, Bowie was already a very risky glass player (gets injured a lot) and if Portland really needed a center, where there others (or perhaps available forwards who were tall enough that could be used as centers?) they could've picked that wouldn't have been so risky and injury prone?

Estil · July 5, 2024 1:07PM

@SanctionII said:
6'11" Chris Washburn, from N.C. State, was drafted #3 in the 1986 NBA draft. He was 20 years old and a drug addict (cocaine). In addition to his drug addiction he was in trouble with the law. His NBA career lasted 2 seasons (with the Warriors and the Hawks), averaging 3.1 points and 2.4 rebounds per game. Washburn received a lifetime NBA ban in June 1989 after failing three drug tests in three years.

GS made a big mistake in drafting him; and I suspect that GS knew of his drug addiction before the draft.

Indeed just like with Bowie being too injury prone, Leaf having a toxic bad 'tude, this too just wouldn't have been worth it no matter how much talent/potential he may have had.

Basebal21 · July 5, 2024 2:13PM

@Estil said:

@Basebal21 said:
Babe Ruth has a candy bar named after him and countless movies like the Sandlot that reference him. He was also the homerun leader for a long time which is why hes more famous the Williams, not because of being in the New York market vs the Boston market. The only help that really did was create the curse of Ruth for Boston which gave him even more fame.

It really never made any sense to just go a sell arguably the best player of all time given that he could pitch and hit and do both at a very high level.

Financially and for his personal wealth standpoint it made sense, from a baseball perspective it made no sense though

That's not exactly what I'm saying. In our original time line (OTL) Ruth is indeed the homerun leader but it was in New York what truly matched his lifestyle where he could truly fully blossom both as a player and his lifestyle. In the alternate time line (ATL) where he stayed in Boston, he would've been a great HOF player (would Fenway have allowed him to hit more or less homeruns? Remember in 1920 and 1921 when he hit 54 and 59 taters the Yankees were sharing the Polo Grounds with the Giants so he was able to hit cheap homeruns near the foul poles...though on the other side of the coin the center field area went out to 480ish feet, so there's that.

What I'm trying to say is had Ruth stayed in Boston (somehow; like I said he was really REALLY wearing out his welcome and was demanding too much money as we seen in that Top Five Reasons episode) he would've been like Ted Williams (who probably would've also hit about as many home runs had it not been for WWII)...a great HOF player but not someone most non-baseball fans would know of even decades later. Seriously, even today (in our OTL), because Ruth was able to be a larger than life legend way above and beyond the baseball world, who hasn't at least heard of Babe Ruth?

I completely agree more people know Ruth than Williams. Ironically Williams probably got the most attention for having his head frozen which got him in some episodes of TV shows while Ruth is mentioned in a ton of movies etc.

I just dont think think it would have been any different if he stayed in Boston. Like the Polo grounds Fenway has very short foul poles. The polo grounds get deep really really fast while other than that 30 feet in left center where you have to crush a ball over the monster Boston is friendly to left handers and the monster takes away about as many homeruns as it gives. Yankee stadium is the friendliest of the 3 for hitters but the Polo Grounds is really the only bad one unless you have a bunch of speed.

The one thing I do think him going to NY really helped was getting paired up with Gehrig. Ruth was the star in Boston by far, and then once Gehrig Wally Pipped Wally Pipp there was a star tandem that is very easy for the media to fall in love with and bring attention too

Basebal21 · July 5, 2024 2:30PM

@ElMagoStrikeZone said:

@Estil said:

@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Ryan Leaf

He already had a really flagrant bad attitude long before draft day, correct? Even if he had indeed turned out to be a great player being that much of a locker room cancer couldn't have possibly been worth it.

He was a complete disaster from Day 1. Though it couldn't necessarily be assumed, his future was never going to add up to the guy drafted ahead of him at #1 - Peyton Manning.

If you need a perfect definition of Polar Opposites, those two guys would be your poster boys.

The Leaf pick wasnt really a bad pick, but yea it was a disaster. Him and Manning were going 1` and 2 the question was just what order. QBs are busts all the time

ATL taking Pennix at 8 this year after giving Cousins `100 million with almost all of it guaranteed and losing a draft pick for tampering to sign him. Now thats a disaster drafting a 26 year old whose had ACL surgery on both knees, and a major shoulder surgery that will have to sit for 3 years or your starting QB has to get hurt or eat 100 millions dollars to bench him

perkdog · July 6, 2024 3:50AM

Tony Mandarich
Trent Richardson

perkdog · July 6, 2024 3:51AM

Sam Bradford any place he went

stevek · July 6, 2024 5:20AM

Steve Carlton for Rick Wise was a great trade for Philly, and everyone in Philly knew it at the time.

bgr · July 6, 2024 7:00AM

Bowie vs Oden. The battle of the busts in Portland.

It seemed like everyone knew that Oden was broken except for the trailblazers. We just couldn’t believe what was happening and why they wouldn’t select Durant who would have fit perfectly. But I guess that wasn’t a trade.

But since it’s trades. I’ll toss in Oscar Robertson trade to the Bucks for pretty much nobody when he was a top player in the league in his prime.

Estil · July 6, 2024 8:27AM

@stevek said:
Steve Carlton for Rick Wise was a great trade for Philly, and everyone in Philly knew it at the time.

That didn't sound very wise! Sorry I couldn't resist...

stevek · July 6, 2024 9:41AM

@Estil said:

@stevek said:
Steve Carlton for Rick Wise was a great trade for Philly, and everyone in Philly knew it at the time.

That didn't sound very wise! Sorry I couldn't resist...

The interesting thing about the trade is Wise was very popular in Philly at the time. But Philly fans were willing to put that aside for a super star pitcher such as Steve Carlton. I don't recall anyone who didn't like the trade. But I'd have to believe that Cardinals fans weren't too thrilled about it.

I didn't google it, but it may have been the most lopsided pitcher for pitcher trade of all time as far as benefits to one particular team.

dallasactuary · July 6, 2024 11:55AM

The Carlton/Wise trade wasn't all that lopsided (Wise was better than Carlton the year before the trade) but no, Cardinal fans weren't happy about it. It was mostly about money; Carlton wanted to be paid more than Busch was willing to pay ($65K IIRC) so while the Cardinals knew they were probably losing the trade, they were also certainly saving money. In hindsight, of course, the trade was epically terrible.

Darin · July 6, 2024 12:29PM

@Basebal21 said:

@Estil said:
Actually the candy bar was named after Grover Cleveland's daughter:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Ruth

True but more people associate it with the Babe than Grovers daughter. Even though its not accurate it did add to his fame. Also a very underrated candy bar

You guys seriously think the Baby Ruth candy bar was named after a presidents daughter?
The candy bar was named Baby Ruth
In 1921. The little girl died in 1904. Babe Ruth hit 54 homers in 1920 and was already becoming a legend of the game. Can anyone put two and two together? The guy who invented the candy bar was a marketing genius. He tweaked the name a little so he wouldn’t have to pay the Babe any royalties. Then claimed the bar was named after a long dead little girl.

bgr · July 6, 2024 1:16PM

I don't know who's right but...

The commercial success was also driven by Schnering’s marketing genius. He charged five cents for the candy bar, half the price of most of the competition, and advertisements claimed Baby Ruth was both an “energy bar” and a “complete luncheon for 5c.” Schnering even dispatched biplanes from coast to coast to shower cities with thousands of Baby Ruths tied to little parachutes. The free candy raining from the heavens was the stuff of children’s dreams.

Candy from the sky? Yes Please!

Estil · July 6, 2024 2:35PM

@dallasactuary said:
The Carlton/Wise trade wasn't all that lopsided (Wise was better than Carlton the year before the trade) but no, Cardinal fans weren't happy about it. It was mostly about money; Carlton wanted to be paid more than Busch was willing to pay ($65K IIRC) so while the Cardinals knew they were probably losing the trade, they were also certainly saving money. In hindsight, of course, the trade was epically terrible.

That's what I'm trying to find out! Bad in hindsight is easy...what I'm trying to find out is ones where at the time people were complaining and outraged like there is NO WAY this will work in our favor, and sure enough...

Basebal21 · July 6, 2024 4:15PM

@Darin said:

@Basebal21 said:

@Estil said:
Actually the candy bar was named after Grover Cleveland's daughter:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Ruth

True but more people associate it with the Babe than Grovers daughter. Even though its not accurate it did add to his fame. Also a very underrated candy bar

You guys seriously think the Baby Ruth candy bar was named after a presidents daughter?
The candy bar was named Baby Ruth
In 1921. The little girl died in 1904. Babe Ruth hit 54 homers in 1920 and was already becoming a legend of the game. Can anyone put two and two together? The guy who invented the candy bar was a marketing genius. He tweaked the name a little so he wouldn’t have to pay the Babe any royalties. Then claimed the bar was named after a long dead little girl.

I completely agree. I said true since thats their official stance but I dont believe it at all and mentioned it for his fame.

stevek · July 6, 2024 7:53PM

@dallasactuary said:
The Carlton/Wise trade wasn't all that lopsided (Wise was better than Carlton the year before the trade) but no, Cardinal fans weren't happy about it. It was mostly about money; Carlton wanted to be paid more than Busch was willing to pay ($65K IIRC) so while the Cardinals knew they were probably losing the trade, they were also certainly saving money. In hindsight, of course, the trade was epically terrible.

@dallasactuary said:
The Carlton/Wise trade wasn't all that lopsided (Wise was better than Carlton the year before the trade) but no, Cardinal fans weren't happy about it. It was mostly about money; Carlton wanted to be paid more than Busch was willing to pay ($65K IIRC) so while the Cardinals knew they were probably losing the trade, they were also certainly saving money. In hindsight, of course, the trade was epically terrible.

Carlton went 20-9 for the Cardinals the season before the trade, and was setting himself up to be one of the premier pitchers in MLB.

Wise went 17-14 for the Phillies the season before the trade. Wise did have a pretty good ERA that final season with the Phillies. So I'm not saying he was a bad pitcher. But it seemed at the time, that Wise was destined to always be just a .500 type pitcher in a rotation.

So a .500 pitcher for a budding superstar? I'd call that lopsided.

stevek · July 6, 2024 8:02PM

@Darin said:

@Basebal21 said:

@Estil said:
Actually the candy bar was named after Grover Cleveland's daughter:

True but more people associate it with the Babe than Grovers daughter. Even though its not accurate it did add to his fame. Also a very underrated candy bar

You guys seriously think the Baby Ruth candy bar was named after a presidents daughter?
The candy bar was named Baby Ruth
In 1921. The little girl died in 1904. Babe Ruth hit 54 homers in 1920 and was already becoming a legend of the game. Can anyone put two and two together? The guy who invented the candy bar was a marketing genius. He tweaked the name a little so he wouldn’t have to pay the Babe any royalties. Then claimed the bar was named after a long dead little girl.

Completely agree. Ruth at that time was lending his name out to be used on a number of various products. Of course for a fee, likely a hefty fee.

The candy company saw a way to avoid the fees, and cleverly use his name.

I recall as a kid seeing that for the first time in a candy store. I obviously thought it was named after Babe Ruth, which is exactly what the candy company wanted kids to think.

dallasactuary · July 6, 2024 9:57PM

@stevek said:

Carlton went 20-9 for the Cardinals the season before the trade, and was setting himself up to be one of the premier pitchers in MLB.

"setting himself up to be one of the premier pitchers in MLB" sounds like - sounds exactly like - hindsight. Carlton was 10-19 the year before, and that record reflected bad luck to almost the same degree as his 20-9 record reflected good luck the next year. For 1970-1971 Carlton was 30-28, which reflects much better than either 1970 or 1971 alone how good he was in those seasons. Precisely nobody had any idea that Carlton was going to be a superstar when that trade happened.

Wise went 17-14 for the Phillies the season before the trade. Wise did have a pretty good ERA that final season with the Phillies. So I'm not saying he was a bad pitcher. But it seemed at the time, that Wise was destined to always be just a .500 type pitcher in a rotation.

Wise's 17-14 record properly reflected how good he was in 1971, which was a little bit better than Carlton. But he was 13-14 the year before that and that also properly reflected how good he was. Note that both Carlton and Wise were 30-28 for the two years 1970-1971. Now, if you go back further you (and I, and the Cardinals) can see that Carlton was the better pitcher and because his strikeouts far exceeded Wise's probably had greater potential going forward. As I said, it was not a popular trade in St. Louis, and nobody was surprised when it came to be that Carlton had the better career after the trade. But I stand by what I said - absent hindsight that trade just looked like a run-of-the-mill bad trade, made to save money. That it turned out to be an epically horrible trade surprised everyone.

stevek · July 6, 2024 11:43PM

@dallasactuary said:

@stevek said:

Carlton went 20-9 for the Cardinals the season before the trade, and was setting himself up to be one of the premier pitchers in MLB.

"setting himself up to be one of the premier pitchers in MLB" sounds like - sounds exactly like - hindsight. Carlton was 10-19 the year before, and that record reflected bad luck to almost the same degree as his 20-9 record reflected good luck the next year. For 1970-1971 Carlton was 30-28, which reflects much better than either 1970 or 1971 alone how good he was in those seasons. Precisely nobody had any idea that Carlton was going to be a superstar when that trade happened.

Wise went 17-14 for the Phillies the season before the trade. Wise did have a pretty good ERA that final season with the Phillies. So I'm not saying he was a bad pitcher. But it seemed at the time, that Wise was destined to always be just a .500 type pitcher in a rotation.

Wise's 17-14 record properly reflected how good he was in 1971, which was a little bit better than Carlton. But he was 13-14 the year before that and that also properly reflected how good he was. Note that both Carlton and Wise were 30-28 for the two years 1970-1971. Now, if you go back further you (and I, and the Cardinals) can see that Carlton was the better pitcher and because his strikeouts far exceeded Wise's probably had greater potential going forward. As I said, it was not a popular trade in St. Louis, and nobody was surprised when it came to be that Carlton had the better career after the trade. But I stand by what I said - absent hindsight that trade just looked like a run-of-the-mill bad trade, made to save money. That it turned out to be an epically horrible trade surprised everyone.

The fact is that Phillies management would have had no reason whatsoever to make that trade unless they were quite sure that Carlton would become a superstar. And every Philly fan I know agreed with that assessment, including the Philly media who were quite happy with the trade.

If you're skilled in evaluating MLB players, even if two pitcher's won-loss records may at the time be similar, you know who is the better player. Any coach worth his weight the first day of practice with new players, can tell almost always who are going to be the better players, and the starters on his team. For players with a track record, it's more of a science than an art.

Carlton as you probably know, his first season with the Phillies, had one of the finest seasons of any pitcher in MLB history, to the surprise of nobody. However if Rick Wise would have done that for the Cardinals, it would have been a shocker.

Tabe · July 7, 2024 12:41AM

@Darin said:
You guys seriously think the Baby Ruth candy bar was named after a presidents daughter?
The candy bar was named Baby Ruth
In 1921. The little girl died in 1904. Babe Ruth hit 54 homers in 1920 and was already becoming a legend of the game. Can anyone put two and two together? The guy who invented the candy bar was a marketing genius. He tweaked the name a little so he wouldn’t have to pay the Babe any royalties. Then claimed the bar was named after a long dead little girl.

Thank you. I've never bought this idea that the candy bar was named after a child.

dallasactuary · July 7, 2024 8:12AM

@stevek said:
Carlton as you probably know, his first season with the Phillies, had one of the finest seasons of any pitcher in MLB history, to the surprise of nobody. However if Rick Wise would have done that for the Cardinals, it would have been a shocker.

It's a semantic point, mostly, but it's an important one. That Carlton "had one of the finest seasons of any pitcher in MLB history", one year removed from being slightly worse than Rick Wise, surprised EVERYONE. That he was better than Wise, as I've said, was expected; that's why he was paid more than Wise.

I think it's relevant, too, to look at what happened in 1973, the very next year. Carlton's ERA shot up 2 runs per game, and Rick Wise was, again, the better pitcher. It is only in hindsight that the Carlton/Wise trade looks nearly as bad as it turned out to be. On the other side of the Cardinals trade coin, I think the same came be said of Brock for Broglio. In hindsight, an epically bad trade, but at the time nobody had any idea how bad it would turn out to be.

Estil · July 7, 2024 1:22PM

@stevek said:

I recall as a kid seeing that for the first time in a candy store. I obviously thought it was named after Babe Ruth, which is exactly what the candy company wanted kids to think.

You mean like how (especially in the 2000s/Jared era) Subway, while at the same time making themselves out to be a healthy sort of fast food place, was calling their parent company "Doctor's Associates" to make themselves look like they're endorsed/recommended by doctors? I don't know if there's any kind of evidence for your and a few others' theory but it would make sense.

Estil · July 27, 2024 9:11PM

Wow, I can't believe I overlooked this one, in the very first MLB draft, Steve Chilcott was picked first right out of high school (I don't know what his stats/potential was like; his wiki article doesn't say) which is already quite risky and sadly, he only managed to get as high as 27 games in AAA. Meanwhile, they passed over this other guy who was a big time superstar in both HS and college.

So I think this would definitely qualify as one of officialjaguargator9's (on YouTube) "Dumb Decisions" where (as I've tried to make very clear the point of this topic) this isn't something that looks bad after many years of hindsight but rather, this looks like a terrible decision right from the start. In this case, I'm sure most baseball fans' gut instincts were saying, there is no way this fresh out of high school guy will turn out at least as good as that other second guy with a far more impressive high school and college resume...and sure enough, your gut instinct was smarter than that of whoever was in charge of choosing draft picks.

Estil · August 8, 2024 10:55AM

Not really worst draft picks but perhaps count as a Dumb Decision?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Marinovich

As you can see, his father (even when Todd was still in his mom's womb!) was a major, MAJOR control freak (to say the least!) and super mega ultra "Little League Parent" about his son's diet/exercise regimes and treated him more like he was raising a machine rather than a young man (kinda like a real live Ivan Drago?). Surely there must've been some in his family and his HS days or earlier who raised serious concerns/questions about this severely backfiring both in terms of athletic and personal life for Todd?

JoeBanzai · August 8, 2024 1:59PM

The Vikings used a first round pick on Demetrius Underwood, basically saying "We had an extra 1st round pick, we're wasting it on a guy who sucks, but has the potential to be great if he completely changes his effort and attitude".

Another was Troy Williamson, picked #7 overall. "He's really fast, but can't catch the football, we'll teach him how to catch it".

Oops.

Estil · August 8, 2024 3:28PM

@JoeBanzai said:
The Vikings used a first round pick on Demetrius Underwood, basically saying "We had an extra 1st round pick, we're wasting it on a guy who sucks, but has the potential to be great if he completely changes his effort and attitude".

Another was Troy Williamson, picked #7 overall. "He's really fast, but can't catch the football, we'll teach him how to catch it".

Oops.

I thought it was only romantic/married kind of relationships that had that "I can/will fix/change him/her!" and they probably won't cliche!

DrBuster · August 8, 2024 3:57PM

Falcons/Penix....smh

Basebal21 · August 8, 2024 5:05PM

@DrBuster said:
Falcons/Penix....smh

Thats legitimately the worst NFL top 10 pick ever

JoeBanzai · August 8, 2024 6:38PM

@Basebal21 said:

@DrBuster said:
Falcons/Penix....smh

Thats legitimately the worst NFL top 10 pick ever

Might be a little early to say.

Basebal21 · August 8, 2024 6:53PM

@JoeBanzai said:

@Basebal21 said:

@DrBuster said:
Falcons/Penix....smh

Thats legitimately the worst NFL top 10 pick ever

Might be a little early to say.

Maybe but hes going to be at least 27 before he starts since they just gave Cousins over a 100 million guaranteed and will be the starter for the next 3 years unless they eat the money or he gets hurt. By that point Pennix rookie deal will be almost over and they will be paying a first time starter like hes a veteran. Pennix has also had surgeries on both knees and his shoulder. That pick made no sense and as soon as it happened the Broncos and Vikings had no interest in trading up for a QB anymore

JoeBanzai · August 8, 2024 9:03PM

@Basebal21 said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Basebal21 said:

@DrBuster said:
Falcons/Penix....smh

Thats legitimately the worst NFL top 10 pick ever

Might be a little early to say.

Maybe but hes going to be at least 27 before he starts since they just gave Cousins over a 100 million guaranteed and will be the starter for the next 3 years unless they eat the money or he gets hurt. By that point Pennix rookie deal will be almost over and they will be paying a first time starter like hes a veteran. Pennix has also had surgeries on both knees and his shoulder. That pick made no sense and as soon as it happened the Broncos and Vikings had no interest in trading up for a QB anymore

It sure looks like a bad pick. It was a pretty sure thing the Vikings were going to pick a QB with their #1. After looking at the ratings, Penix was the last guy I wanted them to pick.

Cousins left Minnesota reportedly because he was told we would be picking a QB. He left one of the best receiving groups in football and an offensive line that's looking very good.

We even picked up a very good running back from the Packers.

I wonder how he feels about his decision now?

Basebal21 · August 8, 2024 9:41PM

@JoeBanzai said:

@Basebal21 said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Basebal21 said:

@DrBuster said:
Falcons/Penix....smh

Thats legitimately the worst NFL top 10 pick ever

Might be a little early to say.

Maybe but hes going to be at least 27 before he starts since they just gave Cousins over a 100 million guaranteed and will be the starter for the next 3 years unless they eat the money or he gets hurt. By that point Pennix rookie deal will be almost over and they will be paying a first time starter like hes a veteran. Pennix has also had surgeries on both knees and his shoulder. That pick made no sense and as soon as it happened the Broncos and Vikings had no interest in trading up for a QB anymore

It sure looks like a bad pick. It was a pretty sure thing the Vikings were going to pick a QB with their #1. After looking at the ratings, Penix was the last guy I wanted them to pick.

Cousins left Minnesota reportedly because he was told we would be picking a QB. He left one of the best receiving groups in football and an offensive line that's looking very good.

We even picked up a very good running back from the Packers.

I wonder how he feels about his decision now?

I saw a lot of the he left with a pick being coming stuff. In the end Im pretty sure it was he got paid more.

The Vikings do have basically 3 #1 WRers and arguably the best WR in the NFL with Jefferson. Adams, Lamb, Chase wouldnt really argue against any of them over Jefferson

Addison as a 3 is a huge luxury, he would be a 1 on a many teams

JoeBanzai · August 9, 2024 6:13AM

@Basebal21 said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Basebal21 said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Basebal21 said:

@DrBuster said:
Falcons/Penix....smh

Thats legitimately the worst NFL top 10 pick ever

Might be a little early to say.

Maybe but hes going to be at least 27 before he starts since they just gave Cousins over a 100 million guaranteed and will be the starter for the next 3 years unless they eat the money or he gets hurt. By that point Pennix rookie deal will be almost over and they will be paying a first time starter like hes a veteran. Pennix has also had surgeries on both knees and his shoulder. That pick made no sense and as soon as it happened the Broncos and Vikings had no interest in trading up for a QB anymore

It sure looks like a bad pick. It was a pretty sure thing the Vikings were going to pick a QB with their #1. After looking at the ratings, Penix was the last guy I wanted them to pick.

Cousins left Minnesota reportedly because he was told we would be picking a QB. He left one of the best receiving groups in football and an offensive line that's looking very good.

We even picked up a very good running back from the Packers.

I wonder how he feels about his decision now?

I saw a lot of the he left with a pick being coming stuff. In the end Im pretty sure it was he got paid more.

The Vikings do have basically 3 #1 WRers and arguably the best WR in the NFL with Jefferson. Adams, Lamb, Chase wouldnt really argue against any of them over Jefferson

Addison as a 3 is a huge luxury, he would be a 1 on a many teams

I think he got at least one extra year from Atlanta. The guy has made $230M (I think) prior to leaving Minnesota and with this offense, he would have had a chance to put up ridiculous numbers. The new defensive coordinator looks like he has the defense playing better. They went from #28 to #13 last year in points allowed. The team could be very good this year. Kirk might have missed his final chance at making a playoff run to go for (another) money grab. How much do these guys NEED?

I do regret the Vikings not getting the O line improved sooner, Cousins needs more time than some of the more mobile QBs, but his arm strength and accuracy are right there with anyone.

Getting back to draft picks, but staying with the Vikings, I am very interested in their new QB pair of Darnold and McCarthy. Darnold was a #3 overall pick who has been on some BAD teams and McCarthy isn't considered very good by a lot of people, but he has played on great teams and won everywhere. Was Darnold a bad pick? Will McCarthy be a bust?

Hopefully, one of the two, (or both ) will be good to great players for us.

Go Vikings!

burghman · August 9, 2024 11:29AM

The Penguins trading Jaromir Jagr to the Capitals for Kris Beech, Michal Sivek and Ross Lupaschuk. It was a money dump so I know this wasn’t supposed to be a swap of similar skills, but it was clearly one-sided and a bad trade purely from the skill perspective. Even the Caps admitted they didn’t give the Pens anything.

Basebal21 · August 9, 2024 2:54PM

@JoeBanzai said:

@Basebal21 said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Basebal21 said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Basebal21 said:

@DrBuster said:
Falcons/Penix....smh

Thats legitimately the worst NFL top 10 pick ever

Might be a little early to say.

Maybe but hes going to be at least 27 before he starts since they just gave Cousins over a 100 million guaranteed and will be the starter for the next 3 years unless they eat the money or he gets hurt. By that point Pennix rookie deal will be almost over and they will be paying a first time starter like hes a veteran. Pennix has also had surgeries on both knees and his shoulder. That pick made no sense and as soon as it happened the Broncos and Vikings had no interest in trading up for a QB anymore

It sure looks like a bad pick. It was a pretty sure thing the Vikings were going to pick a QB with their #1. After looking at the ratings, Penix was the last guy I wanted them to pick.

Cousins left Minnesota reportedly because he was told we would be picking a QB. He left one of the best receiving groups in football and an offensive line that's looking very good.

We even picked up a very good running back from the Packers.

I wonder how he feels about his decision now?

I saw a lot of the he left with a pick being coming stuff. In the end Im pretty sure it was he got paid more.

The Vikings do have basically 3 #1 WRers and arguably the best WR in the NFL with Jefferson. Adams, Lamb, Chase wouldnt really argue against any of them over Jefferson

Addison as a 3 is a huge luxury, he would be a 1 on a many teams

I think he got at least one extra year from Atlanta. The guy has made $230M (I think) prior to leaving Minnesota and with this offense, he would have had a chance to put up ridiculous numbers. The new defensive coordinator looks like he has the defense playing better. They went from #28 to #13 last year in points allowed. The team could be very good this year. Kirk might have missed his final chance at making a playoff run to go for (another) money grab. How much do these guys NEED?

I do regret the Vikings not getting the O line improved sooner, Cousins needs more time than some of the more mobile QBs, but his arm strength and accuracy are right there with anyone.

Getting back to draft picks, but staying with the Vikings, I am very interested in their new QB pair of Darnold and McCarthy. Darnold was a #3 overall pick who has been on some BAD teams and McCarthy isn't considered very good by a lot of people, but he has played on great teams and won everywhere. Was Darnold a bad pick? Will McCarthy be a bust?

Hopefully, one of the two, (or both ) will be good to great players for us.

Go Vikings!

Given that only 3 of the 4 years are guaranteed I dont think that extra year made a major difference. Hes always taken pride in getting guaranteed money and big signing bonuses which helps other players out as well which is what I would guess it was. His wifes also from Georgia as well so I'm sure that played some role.

He certainly would be putting up bugger numbers if he stayed, but the NFC south isnt a good division so he might be enough to get them to the playoffs. I wouldnt expect them to do much if they got there but I could see it happening. They really hung him out to dry with the Pennix pick when they could have gotten him a top weapon.

I dont like McCarthy at all and Ill assume hes going to start from where he was drafted. Darnold is the more talented QB and I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if he was a stud if they let him start. I would start Darnold if it was my choice but I get thats pretty unrealistic with how the draft works unless theres an injury or McCarthy is just awful for a couple weeks. I dont even blame the QBs anymore if they fail being drafted by the Jets or Browns. Theres something seriously systematically wrong with those franchises when it comes to QBs. Theyve drafted so many QBs and a ton of really high picks as well that just by dumb luck they should have hit on at least one of them and not have every one be a bust

That said I do expect McCarthy to be good. The Vikings have such an insane amount of offensive weapons that if a QB cant be good there right now they just simply dont belong on an NFL roster.

What are the worst sports trades/draft picks that looked bad right from the start, NOT in hindsight!

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