Sometimes when it comes to coin collecting I shove logic right out the window and go with my gut.
That is the method I used in answering the OP's question.
Certainly logic would dictate one response and emotion/gut another.
@Farmer1961 said:
To further add the 2015w proof platinum eagle 1 oz. Coin has a mintage of 3,886 and I saw one for sale on e bay as low as $2,399 on an NGC proof 69 holder. This is the lowest mintage proof in the platinum series.
I know of no platinum collectors. Most people have one just as a Type coin or just to have something tied to the metal.
@silviosi said:
Very interesting topic this one. I find very interesting also how collectors mixt different side of collecting.
It's my observation and inference (no, not fact) that collectors with substantial "investments" in their collection who are loss averse prioritize the more/most liquid gold and silver crown sized coinage coinage, usually with (relatively) low premiums to spot. The two coins profiled by this post don't fit this description exactly but do somewhat.
@Farmer1961 said:
To further add the 2015w proof platinum eagle 1 oz. Coin has a mintage of 3,886 and I saw one for sale on e bay as low as $2,399 on an NGC proof 69 holder. This is the lowest mintage proof in the platinum series.
There is a good reason for this outcome. Platinum isn't a real precious metal. This isn't exactly a popular opinion with those who like it, but that's what the market price demonstrates. Same for palladium and the increasing gold/silver ratio demonstrates that silver isn't viewed as an equivalent monetary metal to gold anymore either.
The mintage for any coin in this series is low, but only when compared to circulating coinage, modern proofs, or US NCLT. It's more liquid financially but not actually low versus earlier US proofs (1936 and prior), modern world NCLT, and definitely not versus earlier world proofs (practically everything from maybe the 60's and earlier). It's downright common for any coin in anywhere near this quality at this price point.
As a collectible, the series is too expensive for what it actually is as a collectible which the ASE isn't. I'd estimate the number of hobbyist collectors as essentially zero. The majority of buyers are almost certainly usually buying at least partially for financial reasons.
The 1995-W has been overhyped and the demand inflated IMHO. Its claim to fame was a low mintage, but many modern bullion coins including platinum and first spouse gold coins have lower mintages and sell for a bit over melt.
I kind of see the 95W ASE as a ‘gotcha’ coin. I remember when I started my 70 DCAM Eisenhower set and boy were those coins expensive since so few existed. 20 years later and those $8-$10K coins are now on many auction sites for $500 or so….and more and more pop up every day. I still see several proof sets with the 95W ASE for sale on eBay….and you know SOME will be cracked out and sent in for TPG with a 70 D/UCAM result further lowering the price. Meanwhile at least the MS65 St. Gaudens will most likely hold its value and probably head higher as there are fewer and fewer coming to light from grandpa and grandma’s hidden collections. 😉
I agree with WCC. In fact everything go to the base as the old dicton say: "History is repeting, just social economic environement change"
Here everything it is direct proportional with the social and economical condition.
In a few years the ASE will be just what are: bullions. With the value of the sale of those, the Reserve can double the quantity of the metal they sale. At least is good for the country this.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN
PRICING UPDATE: A couple of 1995-W ASE Proofss went up for sale on GC and didn't get bids.
A 70 DCAM got no bids at $13,000
A pair of 69 DCAMs got not bids at $3,750 and $2,900.
10 years ago, I think they all get sold (certainly the 69's). That's the problem with buying a huge numismatic premium coin...that premium can fade over time especially for a rather ordinary coin that just has unique circumstance driving demand.
As the number of ASEs to complete a set increases over time....and other hard-to-gets take $$$ for many collectors who can't stretch to buy every ASE....will the price for a 1995-W hold or will it eventually see 69's under $1,000 and 70's well under $10,000 ?
I agree with Saints. What will be the ASE in 30 years??, just an bullion at the spot value. ASE it is a marketing tool for the Mint. Normal ones let them pay for the production, small profit and buy 2 oz of metal for every one sold. The proof give 4 to 5 time more. Just bullions. To pay 5000$ for an oz.?? Need 5000 years to be equal. It is just bullion no coin or medal. Who collect??, go ahead.
I just look at Silver coins. they are coins not bullions and funny, the bullion collectors call them bullion but not theirs ASE. The funny side of the collecting.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN
I get your math and your point but there a host of CC Morgan’s and other classics that are inflated simply because people will pay which causes dealers to chase and stock them which in turn cause people to hold them thus requiring money to pry them out. And so on with that cycle.
I agree with you. I apply the same concept to the most widely collected 20th century US classics too. The buyer expects to get most, all, or more of their money back or far fewer of them would pay the going market price.
And to your math that there simply isn’t 30k collectors for the 30k coins. You’re not wrong but if we condensed the market to absolute supply correlated to end user collectors, I suspect the entire hobby would collapse hitting the “classics” way harder than ASEs. Speculation, marketing and upward demand pressure is not exclusive to widgets
True, which is why I view this coin as having noticeable financially motivated buying, even if not specifically to make a profit, certainly to avoid losing a noticeable proportion of their cost.
I think we agree but then the whole dynamic of this thread boils down to where the specific coins ascertain their value. The saint is 90% intrinsic 10% collector where the 95w is 10% intrinsic vs 90% collectible. That said both can fluctuate esp considering gold is at an all time high so timing is everything.
That said the truth is for just about everything resold when preservation of investment is a priority; it’s not what you buy but how you buy it. It’s a lot easier to buy a 95w for wholesale specifically for the reasons so many have stated vs a gem saint which has much tighter margins and a price floor. I paid 2350 for my FIL’s 95w and I feel comfortable it will hold that value better than if I bought a saint at retail and gold doesn’t go up. One can lose money on great coins and make money on dreck so arguing their merits based specifically on broken crystal balls on the future of gold or the coin market misses the point somewhat. Just for a bit of perspective, any common date Saint is way more common than the 95w too with 6figure grading events let alone survivors.
My whole original post is if you buy them right and don’t chase the market you can get both for around the same price as a maximized retail example or either with little variance to the actual quality of the coins purchased.
@blitzdude said:
$1900 worth of classic gold or $22 worth of modern gutter metal? I'd have to stick with the Au Bob. RGDS!
Does one apply the same logic to the 10c of copper in a chain cent? I don’t think the collectibility of 95w is going to shoot up anytime soon but neither will it for common saints. But you are ignoring the possibility that drawing its value from collectibility acts as a hedge to receding metal prices. If Gold and silver lose 50% of their value tomorrow the saint takes a bath where the 95w isn’t affected. Short term metal fluctuations are much more likely than collector fluctuations. Long term is anybody’s guess.
You have a steady slow decline as the 1995-W is no longer a "hot" issue and folks realize that they can't (most of them) get EVERY key date in the series. Or if they do, settle for one less than perfect.
You can EASILY see the 69 1995-W's at under $1,000 and they'd still be at 10x the price of other ASEs.
What is undeniable is that there has been a slow steady melting away of the numismatic premium at all levels of the 1995-W's. Demand is not as strong. And supply continues to inch up.
That's a lethal combination if maintaining value is a concern. If it's not, then it doesn't matter.
@Crypto said:
Does one apply the same logic to the 10c of copper in a chain cent? I don’t think the collectibility of 95w is going to >shoot up anytime soon but neither will it for common saints. But you are ignoring the possibility that drawing its >value from collectibility acts as a hedge to receding metal prices. If Gold and silver lose 50% of their value tomorrow >the saint takes a bath where the 95w isn’t affected. Short term metal fluctuations are much more likely than >collector fluctuations. Long term is anybody’s guess.
But we know that the Saint will track gold...and while nobody knows where the next $300 is for gold's price, I think the next $1,000 is UP.
The 1995-W can be affected by drops in demand AND increases in supply. You are right, it doesn't track silver or PM pricing because of the monstrous numismatic premium. That's probably the only good thing about paying that much for it.
You can also have shifts in demand within the grades for the 1995-W, similar to what we saw with the 1857-S Liberty DE. You could have remaining buyers say that a 69 or even 68 is good enough and not pay up for a 70 DCAM. You get more supply from the original mintage sets, that's how prices can fall further at the 70 level even if the 69's and 68's hold up better in absolute or relative terms.
Finally, the 1995-W has been a hot coin for a while but eventually the older ASE collectors will pass on and sell their expensively-purchased coins. Those will hit the market in coming years. Will there be enough new ASE collectors wanting to get a 1995-W and pay up for the premium coins ? If so, at what price ?
Net-Net: Supply AND demand trends going forward look negative, IMO. If I were an ASE collector and needed a 1995-W, I would personally go for the 69's or 68's, DCAM or not.
@GoldFinger1969 said:
Those will hit the market in coming years._ Will there be enough new ASE collectors wanting to get a 1995-W and pay up for the premium coins ? If so, at what price ?_
The true is in his words of GoldFinger1969. the generation change, the visions and mentalities change. I speek with the new generation offend. I have this 1995W and I show them for study purpose. No one of them look like an collectable, just as very nice bulion. The trend for those ASE I thing fall day by day. Just I feel bad for those who put so much money in with no good return. Investing street is full of barriers and when invest, we took the risk, and must know well when go IN or OUT.
In the future, indiferent of the kind of the bullion, the ASE will go down. All the studies show this. Behind the passion of collecting and the fact allways it is an context. I am investor, I am in contact with many investing houses and if I ask about ASE all unanimus told me no future as collectable or market.
The Silver it is use less and less. New metals come out. The Gold will stay because the trend it is the countries across the globe want come back to curency be back by gold. On this position, US it is on the best position with the biggest reserve in the world if the politicians will consider to move on. Many other considerations are behind.
Collect what you like, but invest smart!
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN
@Crypto said:
Does one apply the same logic to the 10c of copper in a chain cent? I don’t think the collectibility of 95w is going to >shoot up anytime soon but neither will it for common saints. But you are ignoring the possibility that drawing its >value from collectibility acts as a hedge to receding metal prices. If Gold and silver lose 50% of their value tomorrow >the saint takes a bath where the 95w isn’t affected. Short term metal fluctuations are much more likely than >collector fluctuations. Long term is anybody’s guess.
But we know that the Saint will track gold...and while nobody knows where the next $300 is for gold's price, I think the next $1,000 is UP.
The 1995-W can be affected by drops in demand AND increases in supply. You are right, it doesn't track silver or PM pricing because of the monstrous numismatic premium. That's probably the only good thing about paying that much for it.
You can also have shifts in demand within the grades for the 1995-W, similar to what we saw with the 1857-S Liberty DE. You could have remaining buyers say that a 69 or even 68 is good enough and not pay up for a 70 DCAM. You get more supply from the original mintage sets, that's how prices can fall further at the 70 level even if the 69's and 68's hold up better in absolute or relative terms.
Finally, the 1995-W has been a hot coin for a while but eventually the older ASE collectors will pass on and sell their expensively-purchased coins. Those will hit the market in coming years. Will there be enough new ASE collectors wanting to get a 1995-W and pay up for the premium coins ? If so, at what price ?
Net-Net: Supply AND demand trends going forward look negative, IMO. If I were an ASE collector and needed a 1995-W, I would personally go for the 69's or 68's, DCAM or not.
I think most can agree that paying for 70s is paying for the plastic and not the coin. Plastic chasing is a thin and volatile market. I would never ever pay 1c more for a 70 over a 69 and I’ll gladly take a discount on a 68 if I can’t tell why it isn’t a 69.
@Crypto said:
I think most can agree that paying for 70s is paying for the plastic and not the coin. Plastic chasing is a thin and >volatile market. I would never ever pay 1c more for a 70 over a 69 and I’ll gladly take a discount on a 68 if I can’t tell >why it isn’t a 69.
Like I said earlier, the 70 DCAM is getting bids between $9-$13K on GC. But the 69's look to be still too high at $3K so maybe there you need $2,500 ? $2,000 ? If so, the 68's are probably just over $1,000.
@Crypto said:
I think most can agree that paying for 70s is paying for the plastic and not the coin. Plastic chasing is a thin and >volatile market. I would never ever pay 1c more for a 70 over a 69 and I’ll gladly take a discount on a 68 if I can’t tell >why it isn’t a 69.
Like I said earlier, the 70 DCAM is getting bids between $9-$13K on GC. But the 69's look to be still too high at $3K so maybe there you need $2,500 ? $2,000 ? If so, the 68's are probably just over $1,000.
That isn’t how that works. Assuming no milk spots or finger prints, 68s trade within the same spreads as 69s just a tad less liquid. 2400-2750 is the current value for raw or non-70 issue free 95ws. 2000 is about the floor where spotted coins and issues get traded by the type of dealers that buy anything cheap and flips to the unsuspecting. Retail for 68 or 9s is about 2800-3000
There is an almost unlimited buying pool of people who would buy a 95w at 1000$.
@Crypto said:
That isn’t how that works. Assuming no milk spots or finger prints, 68s trade within the same spreads as 69s just a >tad less liquid. 2400-2750 is the current value for raw or non-70 issue free 95ws. 2000 is about the floor where >spotted coins and issues get traded by the type of dealers that buy anything cheap and flips to the unsuspecting. >Retail for 68 or 9s is about 2800-3000
Interesting, thanks for the feedback Crypto. What you said makes sense.
I guess the floor of ASE collectors is that large that you have a very high floor even if you go down away from the 70 DCAMs, huh ?
@Crypto said:
That isn’t how that works. Assuming no milk spots or finger prints, 68s trade within the same spreads as 69s just a >tad less liquid. 2400-2750 is the current value for raw or non-70 issue free 95ws. 2000 is about the floor where >spotted coins and issues get traded by the type of dealers that buy anything cheap and flips to the unsuspecting. >Retail for 68 or 9s is about 2800-3000
Interesting, thanks for the feedback Crypto. What you said makes sense.
I guess the floor of ASE collectors is that large that you have a very high floor even if you go down away from the 70 DCAMs, huh ?
Value Floor is a completely different beast. While collectors play into it, the base consumer at that levels are dealers/resellers who will snap up anything they feel is too cheap at open auction that they can flip for a profit with little risk. Many problem coins, slow movers and yah buts get moved around multiple times in open auctions and wholesale transactions before finding a collector buyer. Every coin has a price floor where the resale community takes notice and someone will grab it. A saint will have a tighter spread between its floor and retail due to being commodity based.
ASE are most likely a future generation of coin collector’s Morgan and there will come a time where the large silver and completable set is in vogue, might be in a 100 years but it will come. Not like the dime a dozen Morgan’s were heavily used either.
@Crypto said:
There is an almost unlimited buying pool of people who would buy a 95w at 1000$.
I think your price analyis is spot on, Crypto.....an MS-69 DCAM didn't get any bids the other day over at GC, asking $3,750 (so figure about $4,200 with bp).
@GoldFinger1969 said:
A 1995-W PR70DCAM just sold on GC for just over $12,000 all-in.
I would still take the MS65 Saint and pocket the $9000+ difference to use later to buy other gold coins.
How much will that 1995W ASE be worth if it develops even a single milk spot?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@GoldFinger1969 said:
A 1995-W PR70DCAM just sold on GC for just over $12,000 all-in.
I would still take the MS65 Saint and pocket the $9000+ difference to use later to buy other gold coins.
How much will that 1995W ASE be worth if it develops even a single milk spot?
I think the 95w is a quality coin but paying 5x for plastic is crazy when 99% of people can’t tell the difference between a 68-69-70. And 1/2 of the time there isn’t any real difference.
The 1995-W Gold Eagle proof set was offered by the Mint at $999 with or without the "free" 1995-W proof Silver Eagle.
Ten thousand sets without the Silver Eagle were sold, for reasons I didn't understand then and still don't. My guess is that many collectors who chose that option regretted their decision later.
The 1995-W proof Silver Eagle wasn't universally popular when it first came out. Many collectors complained about being "forced" to buy the gold set to keep their Silver Eagle collections up to date. Some boycotted the coin. It was readily available from dealers for under $400 for months after the final mintage was announced.
I had this conundrum a little over a month ago... when gold was around $2150... I opted for the MS65 Saint and got this one for a couple of hundred over spot. Yes, it's a common date and the premiums for less common date MS63's and 64's were around the same but not much. I'm glad I opted for the Gem grade... that's sort of a "line in the sand" . I picked up this one..
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@Crypto said:
I think the 95w is a quality coin but paying 5x for plastic is crazy when 99% of people can’t tell the difference >between a 68-69-70. And 1/2 of the time there isn’t any real difference.
Must be something they see using a 5x loupe. You might have 1 or even 2 of the slightest blemishes/lines/whatever that might not matter if we were talking about 67 vs. 68 or 68 vs. 69....but for 69 vs. 70, it matters.
Comments
Sometimes when it comes to coin collecting I shove logic right out the window and go with my gut.
That is the method I used in answering the OP's question.
Certainly logic would dictate one response and emotion/gut another.
peacockcoins
I know of no platinum collectors. Most people have one just as a Type coin or just to have something tied to the metal.
It's my observation and inference (no, not fact) that collectors with substantial "investments" in their collection who are loss averse prioritize the more/most liquid gold and silver crown sized coinage coinage, usually with (relatively) low premiums to spot. The two coins profiled by this post don't fit this description exactly but do somewhat.
There is a good reason for this outcome. Platinum isn't a real precious metal. This isn't exactly a popular opinion with those who like it, but that's what the market price demonstrates. Same for palladium and the increasing gold/silver ratio demonstrates that silver isn't viewed as an equivalent monetary metal to gold anymore either.
The mintage for any coin in this series is low, but only when compared to circulating coinage, modern proofs, or US NCLT. It's more liquid financially but not actually low versus earlier US proofs (1936 and prior), modern world NCLT, and definitely not versus earlier world proofs (practically everything from maybe the 60's and earlier). It's downright common for any coin in anywhere near this quality at this price point.
As a collectible, the series is too expensive for what it actually is as a collectible which the ASE isn't. I'd estimate the number of hobbyist collectors as essentially zero. The majority of buyers are almost certainly usually buying at least partially for financial reasons.
The 1995-W has been overhyped and the demand inflated IMHO. Its claim to fame was a low mintage, but many modern bullion coins including platinum and first spouse gold coins have lower mintages and sell for a bit over melt.
I’ll also be the contrarian and say I’d save the money. For an extra $3k-$4k you could hunt down a cool XF capped bust $5.
I kind of see the 95W ASE as a ‘gotcha’ coin. I remember when I started my 70 DCAM Eisenhower set and boy were those coins expensive since so few existed. 20 years later and those $8-$10K coins are now on many auction sites for $500 or so….and more and more pop up every day. I still see several proof sets with the 95W ASE for sale on eBay….and you know SOME will be cracked out and sent in for TPG with a 70 D/UCAM result further lowering the price. Meanwhile at least the MS65 St. Gaudens will most likely hold its value and probably head higher as there are fewer and fewer coming to light from grandpa and grandma’s hidden collections. 😉
I agree with WCC. In fact everything go to the base as the old dicton say: "History is repeting, just social economic environement change"
Here everything it is direct proportional with the social and economical condition.
In a few years the ASE will be just what are: bullions. With the value of the sale of those, the Reserve can double the quantity of the metal they sale. At least is good for the country this.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
PRICING UPDATE: A couple of 1995-W ASE Proofss went up for sale on GC and didn't get bids.
10 years ago, I think they all get sold (certainly the 69's). That's the problem with buying a huge numismatic premium coin...that premium can fade over time especially for a rather ordinary coin that just has unique circumstance driving demand.
As the number of ASEs to complete a set increases over time....and other hard-to-gets take $$$ for many collectors who can't stretch to buy every ASE....will the price for a 1995-W hold or will it eventually see 69's under $1,000 and 70's well under $10,000 ?
I would go with the Saint Gaudens,,,,, too much chance of the Silver Eagle developing spots and then your investment is ruined.
I agree with Saints. What will be the ASE in 30 years??, just an bullion at the spot value. ASE it is a marketing tool for the Mint. Normal ones let them pay for the production, small profit and buy 2 oz of metal for every one sold. The proof give 4 to 5 time more. Just bullions. To pay 5000$ for an oz.?? Need 5000 years to be equal. It is just bullion no coin or medal. Who collect??, go ahead.
I just look at Silver coins. they are coins not bullions and funny, the bullion collectors call them bullion but not theirs ASE. The funny side of the collecting.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
I think we agree but then the whole dynamic of this thread boils down to where the specific coins ascertain their value. The saint is 90% intrinsic 10% collector where the 95w is 10% intrinsic vs 90% collectible. That said both can fluctuate esp considering gold is at an all time high so timing is everything.
That said the truth is for just about everything resold when preservation of investment is a priority; it’s not what you buy but how you buy it. It’s a lot easier to buy a 95w for wholesale specifically for the reasons so many have stated vs a gem saint which has much tighter margins and a price floor. I paid 2350 for my FIL’s 95w and I feel comfortable it will hold that value better than if I bought a saint at retail and gold doesn’t go up. One can lose money on great coins and make money on dreck so arguing their merits based specifically on broken crystal balls on the future of gold or the coin market misses the point somewhat. Just for a bit of perspective, any common date Saint is way more common than the 95w too with 6figure grading events let alone survivors.
My whole original post is if you buy them right and don’t chase the market you can get both for around the same price as a maximized retail example or either with little variance to the actual quality of the coins purchased.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Does one apply the same logic to the 10c of copper in a chain cent? I don’t think the collectibility of 95w is going to shoot up anytime soon but neither will it for common saints. But you are ignoring the possibility that drawing its value from collectibility acts as a hedge to receding metal prices. If Gold and silver lose 50% of their value tomorrow the saint takes a bath where the 95w isn’t affected. Short term metal fluctuations are much more likely than collector fluctuations. Long term is anybody’s guess.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
You have a steady slow decline as the 1995-W is no longer a "hot" issue and folks realize that they can't (most of them) get EVERY key date in the series. Or if they do, settle for one less than perfect.
You can EASILY see the 69 1995-W's at under $1,000 and they'd still be at 10x the price of other ASEs.
What is undeniable is that there has been a slow steady melting away of the numismatic premium at all levels of the 1995-W's. Demand is not as strong. And supply continues to inch up.
That's a lethal combination if maintaining value is a concern. If it's not, then it doesn't matter.
But we know that the Saint will track gold...and while nobody knows where the next $300 is for gold's price, I think the next $1,000 is UP.
The 1995-W can be affected by drops in demand AND increases in supply. You are right, it doesn't track silver or PM pricing because of the monstrous numismatic premium. That's probably the only good thing about paying that much for it.
You can also have shifts in demand within the grades for the 1995-W, similar to what we saw with the 1857-S Liberty DE. You could have remaining buyers say that a 69 or even 68 is good enough and not pay up for a 70 DCAM. You get more supply from the original mintage sets, that's how prices can fall further at the 70 level even if the 69's and 68's hold up better in absolute or relative terms.
Finally, the 1995-W has been a hot coin for a while but eventually the older ASE collectors will pass on and sell their expensively-purchased coins. Those will hit the market in coming years. Will there be enough new ASE collectors wanting to get a 1995-W and pay up for the premium coins ? If so, at what price ?
Net-Net: Supply AND demand trends going forward look negative, IMO. If I were an ASE collector and needed a 1995-W, I would personally go for the 69's or 68's, DCAM or not.
The true is in his words of GoldFinger1969. the generation change, the visions and mentalities change. I speek with the new generation offend. I have this 1995W and I show them for study purpose. No one of them look like an collectable, just as very nice bulion. The trend for those ASE I thing fall day by day. Just I feel bad for those who put so much money in with no good return. Investing street is full of barriers and when invest, we took the risk, and must know well when go IN or OUT.
In the future, indiferent of the kind of the bullion, the ASE will go down. All the studies show this. Behind the passion of collecting and the fact allways it is an context. I am investor, I am in contact with many investing houses and if I ask about ASE all unanimus told me no future as collectable or market.
The Silver it is use less and less. New metals come out. The Gold will stay because the trend it is the countries across the globe want come back to curency be back by gold. On this position, US it is on the best position with the biggest reserve in the world if the politicians will consider to move on. Many other considerations are behind.
Collect what you like, but invest smart!
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
I think most can agree that paying for 70s is paying for the plastic and not the coin. Plastic chasing is a thin and volatile market. I would never ever pay 1c more for a 70 over a 69 and I’ll gladly take a discount on a 68 if I can’t tell why it isn’t a 69.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Like I said earlier, the 70 DCAM is getting bids between $9-$13K on GC. But the 69's look to be still too high at $3K so maybe there you need $2,500 ? $2,000 ? If so, the 68's are probably just over $1,000.
That isn’t how that works. Assuming no milk spots or finger prints, 68s trade within the same spreads as 69s just a tad less liquid. 2400-2750 is the current value for raw or non-70 issue free 95ws. 2000 is about the floor where spotted coins and issues get traded by the type of dealers that buy anything cheap and flips to the unsuspecting. Retail for 68 or 9s is about 2800-3000
There is an almost unlimited buying pool of people who would buy a 95w at 1000$.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Interesting, thanks for the feedback Crypto. What you said makes sense.
I guess the floor of ASE collectors is that large that you have a very high floor even if you go down away from the 70 DCAMs, huh ?
Value Floor is a completely different beast. While collectors play into it, the base consumer at that levels are dealers/resellers who will snap up anything they feel is too cheap at open auction that they can flip for a profit with little risk. Many problem coins, slow movers and yah buts get moved around multiple times in open auctions and wholesale transactions before finding a collector buyer. Every coin has a price floor where the resale community takes notice and someone will grab it. A saint will have a tighter spread between its floor and retail due to being commodity based.
ASE are most likely a future generation of coin collector’s Morgan and there will come a time where the large silver and completable set is in vogue, might be in a 100 years but it will come. Not like the dime a dozen Morgan’s were heavily used either.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I think your price analyis is spot on, Crypto.....an MS-69 DCAM didn't get any bids the other day over at GC, asking $3,750 (so figure about $4,200 with bp).
Definitely the Gold.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
A 1995-W PR70DCAM just sold on GC for just over $12,000 all-in.
I would still take the MS65 Saint and pocket the $9000+ difference to use later to buy other gold coins.
How much will that 1995W ASE be worth if it develops even a single milk spot?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think the 95w is a quality coin but paying 5x for plastic is crazy when 99% of people can’t tell the difference between a 68-69-70. And 1/2 of the time there isn’t any real difference.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
The MS 65 St Gaudens.
Historical note:
The 1995-W Gold Eagle proof set was offered by the Mint at $999 with or without the "free" 1995-W proof Silver Eagle.
Ten thousand sets without the Silver Eagle were sold, for reasons I didn't understand then and still don't. My guess is that many collectors who chose that option regretted their decision later.
The 1995-W proof Silver Eagle wasn't universally popular when it first came out. Many collectors complained about being "forced" to buy the gold set to keep their Silver Eagle collections up to date. Some boycotted the coin. It was readily available from dealers for under $400 for months after the final mintage was announced.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
The PCGS MS65 Saint
I had this conundrum a little over a month ago... when gold was around $2150... I opted for the MS65 Saint and got this one for a couple of hundred over spot. Yes, it's a common date and the premiums for less common date MS63's and 64's were around the same but not much. I'm glad I opted for the Gem grade... that's sort of a "line in the sand" . I picked up this one..
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Neither one, both are out of my price range and not what I collect.
Must be something they see using a 5x loupe. You might have 1 or even 2 of the slightest blemishes/lines/whatever that might not matter if we were talking about 67 vs. 68 or 68 vs. 69....but for 69 vs. 70, it matters.