Fair premium for rattler holders?
ndeagles
Posts: 363 ✭✭✭✭
So I recently purchased a coin in a rattler so I could design a 3d printed frame to allow it to be stored in a regular pcgs box. I never really sought out coins in rattlers, and I never came across a coin I had to have that happened to be in a rattler. Well after getting the coin, I decided I really like the old holders, something feels special about them in hand. Since then I have thought about starting a fairly easy registry set (PF Franklins) all in rattler holders but have found the prices of coins in the old holders to be significantly pricier than coins of the same grade in a modern holder. A couple questions I have:
The prices I have seen are roughly double what even the pcgs listed value is for these coins, is it typical to see such high premiums for these coins?
In the event I wanted to resell them someday, assuming no major changes in hobby trends, should I expect to get a premium for a rattler holder coin from a reasonable and fair dealer?
Is it possible to polish surface scratches off the holder, and if so will it affect the value? I have experience polishing plastic headlight lenses to remove scratches, pitting, and discoloration, is there a safe effective process that might work on these holders, or am I better to avoid heavily scratched holders?
Comments
I would pay a premium for a rattler only if the actual coin merits the premium.
Thats an awesome project you're working on. I don't own any rattlers yet but I plan go get some in the future. Are you going to start selling the cases? I'd love to get a few.
For me there is no premium to a rattler or any other specific holder. It all has to come from the coin.
PlastX will take out scratches, and I have no idea if rattler collectors eschew holders that have been cleaned and restored. Consider that one reason behind all the scratches could be the coin has had a lot of miles put on it on bourse floors and was never seen worthy of trying for an upgrade.
Your collars are pretty cool, by the way. Not much of a limit on what you can make with a 3D printer, from slab collars to artificial joints to rocket engines.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Yes I've sold some on here, but I might try eBay ant Etsy as well, I already have seller accounts on both for non-coin related items. Id really like a rattler set, but not sure if I want to pay such high premiums just for the holder
For common coins I have never been willing to pay any (much?) premium for a rattler holder. Of course, this will be different with each person.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I’d only pay a premium if the holder was in perfect condition. So many are beat up after 30+ years.
Dave
I have no idea why some collectors are willing to pay a premium for "rattlers". I never liked that type of holder when it was current and still don't today. Buy the coin, not the holder.
That's what I'm struggling with, is it common place that these sell at such a premium?
Put some on the BST here and see if there is any interest. Some members of this board seem to like "rattlers". By doing this you will find out if there is some interest in actually paying a premium for them. You might try eBay as well.
Personally, I would never pay a premium for a "rattler".
Actually yes, it is somewhat common to see sellers asking premiums for rattlers. Not every seller and the premium is different for some series and dates. The more common the coin and how common that coin is seen in a rattler are big factors in prices. Copper collectors often like old holders to show that the surfaces are stable and less likely to change quickly, but I hear the same from gold and silver collectors as well.
I personally have never looked at the rattler pops for the set you are thinking about putting together. I would suggest that you find a pop report from around the time the rattler was phased out to decide if there were sufficient pops back then for your project.
My only other advice is to not rush and take your time, I'm sure you can find the coins at reasonable prices, it just might take some searching.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Yes it is common for rattlers to carry a premium. Since 2020, the premiums have increased compared to the more modest amount seen before then. Common coins that are hard to find in rattlers (like Silver Eagles) have significant premiums (well above the 2x PCGS guide figure you mentioned). Common coins that are more available in rattlers (Franklins. 1938 Buffalo Nickels, later date Mercury Dimes) have a smaller (but still sizable compared to guide) premium.
Some coins are definitely worth a premium, for example Clad Ikes.
Some are not, for example, Buffalo nickels.
peacockcoins
I would not pay premium on rattlers either.
The sheet does not give rattlers a premium nor should you. Crack them, send them in. Better yet start them on the Bay at 99c plus shipx.
Many discount their offer on them as many don’t like way they rotate in holder.
Unfortunately, among the advice you'll receive here, there will always be advice from that type of collector who just has to tell you what you "should" collect, what "should" be of value to you. The simple fact is with any but the most common coins found in rattlers the holder usually will command a premium, moreso if the old holder isn't damaged.
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>
Hey, if you’re interested in selling some of those collars, hit me up on a PM.
That’s one thing I don’t like about rattlers, they are too small for a plastic PCGS box.
I like seeing that folks won't pay a premium for rattlers for 2 reasons:
Rattlers carry premiums regardless of what others think. I think those premiums will increase with time as well.
I will BUY all the rattlers anyone wants to sell to me at bid, no problem, no questions asked! Send 'em my way!
Cheers,
Surf
I got one in the mail today sideways. Hit it lightly on a magazine about 15 times and it’s straight again.
Mee too, I'd like to get a few for the few coins I have in rattlers
Just PM me
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
As much as I don’t like it, even an old saint with PVC on it will have a rattler premium. For a common saint that trades near melt, I’ll add $50-100 depending on the coin. For more expensive coins it could be much much more, but there’s always a rattler premium unless the coin is totally trashed or the rattler is in very poor condition.
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There are some collectors that think if the coin’s in a rattler holder, it’s undergraded. Therefore, they may pay a premium. I think that’s poor logic & agree one should buy the coin, not the holder. I do own some rattlers & think they’re cool, but nothing more. Interesting that just about all the ones I have are NOT loose in the slabs.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
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And there are some collectors that think if a coin is in a rattler the likelihood of it upgrading is slim; otherwise someone would have after 30+ years.
For perspective, over 1 million rattlers were produced. Even factoring crackouts and reholders, there are a lot of them out there. If you have access to a September or October, 1989 PCGS pop report, the approximate respective pops for various coins/grades in rattlers produced are show.
Old holders, including rattlers, can be an indicator of stability, particularly with copper. I would decide on a coin by coin basis whether or not I was willing to pay a premium for that stability though.
And me. Please PM me if I could buy a few.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
I don't go out of my way looking for coins in Rattler holders specifically, but if I like the coin, I'll bid. That said, I'm not bidding 2x PCGS price guide values just to have a nice coin in an old holder.
One thing I will say about coins in older holders, in general, is that if the coin was dipped or doctored in some way before certification and it hasn't turned by now... it's probably stable... but that goes for rattlers as well as OGH, ANACS soapbox holders, etc...
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“The prices I have seen are roughly double what even the pcgs listed value is for these coins, is it typical to see such high premiums for these coins?”
No, premiums that large aren’t “typical”. The amount or percentage involved depends upon a number of factors, including the coin itself, the scarcity of coins of that type in rattler holders and the reasonableness of the seller.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Last year I sold a bunch of Morgans in rattlers. buyers bought the coin, not the plastic. There was $0 rattler premium.
I tried to PM you, but it's telling me your profile is private are you able to pm me if you are still interested
Sold 8 Rattler Morgans MS65 Common Dates a few months ago on ebay...sold $250 each...paid $365 each in 1989....CACG holders MS-65 Morgan common dates bringing close to $250 on ebay, pcgs and ngc MS-65 later generation holders in MS-65 can be found around $150....ANA first generation holders with the blue lettering hold the crown in my book...sold 3 of them MS65 common dates $295 each......you can also find less expensive ms63 grade common morgans rattlers on ebay for the $70 to $100 range....the fun of collecting there is no right or wrong way...buy what makes you happy! Making money on them is another question!
Most rattlers will get a grade up as long as the coin isn't unattractive and doesn't have issues with pvc residue, which is uber common in rattlers.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Have you thought about making an adapter that would fit inside the regular pcgs box. I believe someone else is making those, that way you don’t need the collar for the coin
Thought about it, there is a guy selling them on eBay and he has sold several hundred of them according to his auction results. I wanted to try something a little different which is why I went with a frame. I am going to try to complete proof franklins set in rattlers I've decided, and will do frames on each of them. If you are interested in a box adapter, I am going to mock one up today.
PM connection established.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
Surely you could see how with coins that are difficult to find in rattlers, that there would be extra competition from collectors like yourself seeking ONLY rattlers along with those who don't care about the plastic why these coins would bring premiums on that basis alone.
I certainly understand the why, was really asking more to understand a market segment that is fairly new to me and understand what a fair premium is since I don't see rattler specific values listed in any guides. From what I've seen on here there are many additional variables which can influence price, which is true of any collectable.
They have been so picked over for decades a premium on them a laughable idea. Congrats on creative promo hype on it but at my table…..
I was all set to bid on these within a few minutes of auction close (it was at $124.00) and then. . . BAM!
The closing bell rang and the price went insane:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/116194832477
peacockcoins
$1200? Holy moly!!!!!
Dave
Yes rattler collectors pay a premium. I’m one of them.
Niche market but they aren’t all easy to find.
As for your rattler proof Franklin idea, it can be done (took me less than a year). There are a few tough dates but you’ll have fun finding. Good luck if you go for it.
ASE in rattlers are supposedly pretty rare. It's been discussed before.
Also low serial number rattlers are getting ridiculous.
I've seen most dates except the 1950 so far, same have already purchased one of them, that 50 seems to be tough.
What serial number range is considered low?
108 series.
I just recieved mine today
They are GREAT
Anybody who have rattlers should really consider getting these, they are perfect!
Thanks again Nick, now my rattlers fit in the PCGS boxes without.............."rattlering" LOL
The price is right and very fast shipping, win win
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Hey @ndeagles can you send me a pm so I can buy some directly? I would like to have a few.
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Same here. I could use 4 of them.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
My experience - it can vary. Auctioned a few off had purchased not that long ago. Sold via auction some went fairly high a couple not so much. Not an expert on them.
Fantastic holders!
Glad they work well for you, I love seeing them on beautiful coins!!