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Fair premium for rattler holders?

ndeaglesndeagles Posts: 384 ✭✭✭✭

So I recently purchased a coin in a rattler so I could design a 3d printed frame to allow it to be stored in a regular pcgs box. I never really sought out coins in rattlers, and I never came across a coin I had to have that happened to be in a rattler. Well after getting the coin, I decided I really like the old holders, something feels special about them in hand. Since then I have thought about starting a fairly easy registry set (PF Franklins) all in rattler holders but have found the prices of coins in the old holders to be significantly pricier than coins of the same grade in a modern holder. A couple questions I have:

The prices I have seen are roughly double what even the pcgs listed value is for these coins, is it typical to see such high premiums for these coins?

In the event I wanted to resell them someday, assuming no major changes in hobby trends, should I expect to get a premium for a rattler holder coin from a reasonable and fair dealer?

Is it possible to polish surface scratches off the holder, and if so will it affect the value? I have experience polishing plastic headlight lenses to remove scratches, pitting, and discoloration, is there a safe effective process that might work on these holders, or am I better to avoid heavily scratched holders?



Comments

  • KiwiNumiKiwiNumi Posts: 128 ✭✭✭

    Thats an awesome project you're working on. I don't own any rattlers yet but I plan go get some in the future. Are you going to start selling the cases? I'd love to get a few.

  • ndeaglesndeagles Posts: 384 ✭✭✭✭

    @KiwiNumi said:
    Thats an awesome project you're working on. I don't own any rattlers yet but I plan go get some in the future. Are you going to start selling the cases? I'd love to get a few.

    Yes I've sold some on here, but I might try eBay ant Etsy as well, I already have seller accounts on both for non-coin related items. Id really like a rattler set, but not sure if I want to pay such high premiums just for the holder

  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,252 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For common coins I have never been willing to pay any (much?) premium for a rattler holder. Of course, this will be different with each person.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,535 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’d only pay a premium if the holder was in perfect condition. So many are beat up after 30+ years.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • ndeaglesndeagles Posts: 384 ✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    I have no idea why some collectors are willing to pay a premium for "rattlers". I never liked that type of holder when it was current and still don't today. Buy the coin, not the holder.

    That's what I'm struggling with, is it common place that these sell at such a premium?

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,346 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Put some on the BST here and see if there is any interest. Some members of this board seem to like "rattlers". By doing this you will find out if there is some interest in actually paying a premium for them. You might try eBay as well.

    Personally, I would never pay a premium for a "rattler".

    All glory is fleeting.
  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 24, 2024 9:39AM

    @ndeagles said:

    @291fifth said:
    I have no idea why some collectors are willing to pay a premium for "rattlers". I never liked that type of holder when it was current and still don't today. Buy the coin, not the holder.

    That's what I'm struggling with, is it common place that these sell at such a premium?

    Actually yes, it is somewhat common to see sellers asking premiums for rattlers. Not every seller and the premium is different for some series and dates. The more common the coin and how common that coin is seen in a rattler are big factors in prices. Copper collectors often like old holders to show that the surfaces are stable and less likely to change quickly, but I hear the same from gold and silver collectors as well.

    I personally have never looked at the rattler pops for the set you are thinking about putting together. I would suggest that you find a pop report from around the time the rattler was phased out to decide if there were sufficient pops back then for your project.

    My only other advice is to not rush and take your time, I'm sure you can find the coins at reasonable prices, it just might take some searching.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some coins are definitely worth a premium, for example Clad Ikes.
    Some are not, for example, Buffalo nickels.

    peacockcoins

  • HillbillyCollectorHillbillyCollector Posts: 610 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ndeagles said:

    @KiwiNumi said:
    Thats an awesome project you're working on. I don't own any rattlers yet but I plan go get some in the future. Are you going to start selling the cases? I'd love to get a few.

    Yes I've sold some on here, but I might try eBay ant Etsy as well, I already have seller accounts on both for non-coin related items. Id really like a rattler set, but not sure if I want to pay such high premiums just for the holder

    >
    Hey, if you’re interested in selling some of those collars, hit me up on a PM.
    That’s one thing I don’t like about rattlers, they are too small for a plastic PCGS box.

  • CircCamCircCam Posts: 284 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    I would not pay premium on rattlers either.

    The sheet does not give rattlers a premium nor should you. Crack them, send them in. Better yet start them on the Bay at 99c plus shipx.

    Many discount their offer on them as many don’t like way they rotate in holder.

    I got one in the mail today sideways. Hit it lightly on a magazine about 15 times and it’s straight again. :smile:

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @HillbillyCollector said:

    @ndeagles said:

    @KiwiNumi said:
    Thats an awesome project you're working on. I don't own any rattlers yet but I plan go get some in the future. Are you going to start selling the cases? I'd love to get a few.

    Yes I've sold some on here, but I might try eBay ant Etsy as well, I already have seller accounts on both for non-coin related items. Id really like a rattler set, but not sure if I want to pay such high premiums just for the holder

    >
    Hey, if you’re interested in selling some of those collars, hit me up on a PM.

    Mee too, I'd like to get a few for the few coins I have in rattlers
    Just PM me

  • CopperindianCopperindian Posts: 1,482 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There are some collectors that think if the coin’s in a rattler holder, it’s undergraded. Therefore, they may pay a premium. I think that’s poor logic & agree one should buy the coin, not the holder. I do own some rattlers & think they’re cool, but nothing more. Interesting that just about all the ones I have are NOT loose in the slabs.

    “The thrill of the hunt never gets old”

    PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
    Copperindian

    Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
    Copperindian

  • skier07skier07 Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rnkmyer1 said:
    There are some collectors that think if the coin’s in a rattler holder, it’s undergraded. Therefore, they may pay a premium. I think that’s poor logic & agree one should buy the coin, not the holder. I do own some rattlers & think they’re cool, but nothing more. Interesting that just about all the ones I have are NOT loose in the slabs.

    And there are some collectors that think if a coin is in a rattler the likelihood of it upgrading is slim; otherwise someone would have after 30+ years.

  • foodudefoodude Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭

    For perspective, over 1 million rattlers were produced. Even factoring crackouts and reholders, there are a lot of them out there. If you have access to a September or October, 1989 PCGS pop report, the approximate respective pops for various coins/grades in rattlers produced are show.

    Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,547 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Old holders, including rattlers, can be an indicator of stability, particularly with copper. I would decide on a coin by coin basis whether or not I was willing to pay a premium for that stability though.

  • ms71ms71 Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:

    @HillbillyCollector said:

    @ndeagles said:

    @KiwiNumi said:
    Thats an awesome project you're working on. I don't own any rattlers yet but I plan go get some in the future. Are you going to start selling the cases? I'd love to get a few.

    Yes I've sold some on here, but I might try eBay ant Etsy as well, I already have seller accounts on both for non-coin related items. Id really like a rattler set, but not sure if I want to pay such high premiums just for the holder

    >
    Hey, if you’re interested in selling some of those collars, hit me up on a PM.

    Mee too, I'd like to get a few for the few coins I have in rattlers
    Just PM me

    And me. Please PM me if I could buy a few.

    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan,
    Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

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  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't go out of my way looking for coins in Rattler holders specifically, but if I like the coin, I'll bid. That said, I'm not bidding 2x PCGS price guide values just to have a nice coin in an old holder.

    One thing I will say about coins in older holders, in general, is that if the coin was dipped or doctored in some way before certification and it hasn't turned by now... it's probably stable... but that goes for rattlers as well as OGH, ANACS soapbox holders, etc...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

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  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,514 ✭✭✭✭✭

    “The prices I have seen are roughly double what even the pcgs listed value is for these coins, is it typical to see such high premiums for these coins?”

    No, premiums that large aren’t “typical”. The amount or percentage involved depends upon a number of factors, including the coin itself, the scarcity of coins of that type in rattler holders and the reasonableness of the seller.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • vplite99vplite99 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Last year I sold a bunch of Morgans in rattlers. buyers bought the coin, not the plastic. There was $0 rattler premium.

    Vplite99
  • ndeaglesndeagles Posts: 384 ✭✭✭✭

    @ms71 said:

    And me. Please PM me if I could buy a few.

    I tried to PM you, but it's telling me your profile is private are you able to pm me if you are still interested

  • Sold 8 Rattler Morgans MS65 Common Dates a few months ago on ebay...sold $250 each...paid $365 each in 1989....CACG holders MS-65 Morgan common dates bringing close to $250 on ebay, pcgs and ngc MS-65 later generation holders in MS-65 can be found around $150....ANA first generation holders with the blue lettering hold the crown in my book...sold 3 of them MS65 common dates $295 each......you can also find less expensive ms63 grade common morgans rattlers on ebay for the $70 to $100 range....the fun of collecting there is no right or wrong way...buy what makes you happy! Making money on them is another question!

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2024 8:28AM

    Most rattlers will get a grade up as long as the coin isn't unattractive and doesn't have issues with pvc residue, which is uber common in rattlers.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • smallchangesmallchange Posts: 194 ✭✭✭

    Have you thought about making an adapter that would fit inside the regular pcgs box. I believe someone else is making those, that way you don’t need the collar for the coin

    Successful BST transactions with lkenefic, AnkurJ, ajia, stephunter, No lawyer
  • ndeaglesndeagles Posts: 384 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2024 12:03PM

    @smallchange said:
    Have you thought about making an adapter that would fit inside the regular pcgs box. I believe someone else is making those, that way you don’t need the collar for the coin

    Thought about it, there is a guy selling them on eBay and he has sold several hundred of them according to his auction results. I wanted to try something a little different which is why I went with a frame. I am going to try to complete proof franklins set in rattlers I've decided, and will do frames on each of them. If you are interested in a box adapter, I am going to mock one up today.

  • ms71ms71 Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ndeagles said:

    @ms71 said:

    And me. Please PM me if I could buy a few.

    I tried to PM you, but it's telling me your profile is private are you able to pm me if you are still interested

    PM connection established.

    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan,
    Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

    My mind reader refuses to charge me....
  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ndeagles said:
    The prices I have seen are roughly double what even the pcgs listed value is for these coins, is it typical to see such high premiums for these coins?

    Surely you could see how with coins that are difficult to find in rattlers, that there would be extra competition from collectors like yourself seeking ONLY rattlers along with those who don't care about the plastic why these coins would bring premiums on that basis alone.

  • ndeaglesndeagles Posts: 384 ✭✭✭✭

    @ProofCollection said:

    @ndeagles said:
    The prices I have seen are roughly double what even the pcgs listed value is for these coins, is it typical to see such high premiums for these coins?

    Surely you could see how with coins that are difficult to find in rattlers, that there would be extra competition from collectors like yourself seeking ONLY rattlers along with those who don't care about the plastic why these coins would bring premiums on that basis alone.

    I certainly understand the why, was really asking more to understand a market segment that is fairly new to me and understand what a fair premium is since I don't see rattler specific values listed in any guides. From what I've seen on here there are many additional variables which can influence price, which is true of any collectable.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They have been so picked over for decades a premium on them a laughable idea. Congrats on creative promo hype on it but at my table…..

    Coins & Currency
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was all set to bid on these within a few minutes of auction close (it was at $124.00) and then. . . BAM!
    The closing bell rang and the price went insane:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/116194832477

    peacockcoins

  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,535 ✭✭✭✭✭

    $1200? Holy moly!!!!!

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes rattler collectors pay a premium. I’m one of them.
    Niche market but they aren’t all easy to find.

    As for your rattler proof Franklin idea, it can be done (took me less than a year). There are a few tough dates but you’ll have fun finding. Good luck if you go for it.

  • fathomfathom Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ASE in rattlers are supposedly pretty rare. It's been discussed before.

    Also low serial number rattlers are getting ridiculous.

  • ndeaglesndeagles Posts: 384 ✭✭✭✭

    @johnny010 said:
    Yes rattler collectors pay a premium. I’m one of them.
    Niche market but they aren’t all easy to find.

    As for your rattler proof Franklin idea, it can be done (took me less than a year). There are a few tough dates but you’ll have fun finding. Good luck if you go for it.

    I've seen most dates except the 1950 so far, same have already purchased one of them, that 50 seems to be tough.

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fathom said:
    ASE in rattlers are supposedly pretty rare. It's been discussed before.

    Also low serial number rattlers are getting ridiculous.

    What serial number range is considered low?

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • fathomfathom Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    108 series.

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ndeagles said:
    So I recently purchased a coin in a rattler so I could design a 3d printed frame to allow it to be stored in a regular pcgs box. I never really sought out coins in rattlers, and I never came across a coin I had to have that happened to be in a rattler. Well after getting the coin, I decided I really like the old holders, something feels special about them in hand. Since then I have thought about starting a fairly easy registry set (PF Franklins) all in rattler holders but have found the prices of coins in the old holders to be significantly pricier than coins of the same grade in a modern holder. A couple questions I have:

    The prices I have seen are roughly double what even the pcgs listed value is for these coins, is it typical to see such high premiums for these coins?

    In the event I wanted to resell them someday, assuming no major changes in hobby trends, should I expect to get a premium for a rattler holder coin from a reasonable and fair dealer?

    Is it possible to polish surface scratches off the holder, and if so will it affect the value? I have experience polishing plastic headlight lenses to remove scratches, pitting, and discoloration, is there a safe effective process that might work on these holders, or am I better to avoid heavily scratched holders?



    I just recieved mine today
    They are GREAT
    Anybody who have rattlers should really consider getting these, they are perfect!
    Thanks again Nick, now my rattlers fit in the PCGS boxes without.............."rattlering" LOL
    The price is right and very fast shipping, win win

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hey @ndeagles can you send me a pm so I can buy some directly? I would like to have a few.

    Founder- Peak Rarities
    Website
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    Facebook

  • lusterloverlusterlover Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭✭
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2024 4:22AM

    My experience - it can vary. Auctioned a few off had purchased not that long ago. Sold via auction some went fairly high a couple not so much. Not an expert on them.

    Coins & Currency
  • ndeaglesndeagles Posts: 384 ✭✭✭✭

    @johnny010 said:
    Fantastic holders!

    Glad they work well for you, I love seeing them on beautiful coins!!

  • KoinsarefunKoinsarefun Posts: 36 ✭✭✭


    :smiley:

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