Is this a 2023 over date?

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Rice_Bandit
Rice_Bandit Posts: 15 ✭
edited March 29, 2024 10:18PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Looks like an offset deep pressed "Liberty" and the "2023" year.

I'm new to this. After Googling this, I think this is called an "overdate". I not sure if this is what it actually is. I don't think this is an error but just looks weird.

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  • Rice_Bandit
    Rice_Bandit Posts: 15 ✭
    edited March 29, 2024 10:19PM
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    Sorry if this is in the wrong area

  • Rice_Bandit
    Rice_Bandit Posts: 15 ✭
    edited March 29, 2024 10:25PM
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    It can be seen on the back as well on the on various text, but best on "Five Cents"

  • jacrispies
    jacrispies Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I see die deterioration doubling. An overdate, if the same date, would be a repunched date.

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  • Greenstang
    Greenstang Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Can’t be an overdate, the last overdate I think was in 1909.
    That is just, as stated, Die Deterioration Doubling, a mother worthless type of doubling.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,132 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2024 4:34AM
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    .

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • World67
    World67 Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I think he meant overdate in the sense of a number punch. The coins above are technically doubled dies.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,132 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Manifest_Destiny said:
    I think he meant overdate in the sense of a number punch. The coins above are technically doubled dies.

    Were you referring to the “coins above” that I posted? If so, I’ve always seen them listed as overdates, never doubled dies.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • World67
    World67 Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:
    I think he meant overdate in the sense of a number punch. The coins above are technically doubled dies.

    Were you referring to the “coins above” that I posted? If so, I’ve always seen them listed as overdates, never doubled dies.

    I agree. Technically they're doubled dies but no one calls them that.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:
    I think he meant overdate in the sense of a number punch. The coins above are technically doubled dies.

    Were you referring to the “coins above” that I posted? If so, I’ve always seen them listed as overdates, never doubled dies.

    I agree. Technically they're doubled dies but no one calls them that.

    In what sense are they doubled dies? Did they redo the whole hub or just repunch the date?

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • World67
    World67 Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:
    I think he meant overdate in the sense of a number punch. The coins above are technically doubled dies.

    Were you referring to the “coins above” that I posted? If so, I’ve always seen them listed as overdates, never doubled dies.

    I agree. Technically they're doubled dies but no one calls them that.

    In what sense are they doubled dies? Did they redo the whole hub or just repunch the date?

    Dates became part of the hub, and not punched into the die separately (starting in 1909 I think). Any over dates after that are from two separate hub impressions on the die and are technically doubled dies. The last "overdate" that was mentioned above was the 1909/8 $20 because it was a date overpunch on the die and not two separate hub impressions.

  • rec78
    rec78 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2024 1:23PM
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    An overdate is an overdate, no matter how it was made. The last few that I can think of were the 1942/1 dimes (Both P &D) and the 1943/2 Jefferson nickels.
    The coin shown in the first post is hub or machine doubling of some kind - No extra premium.

    image
  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:
    I think he meant overdate in the sense of a number punch. The coins above are technically doubled dies.

    Were you referring to the “coins above” that I posted? If so, I’ve always seen them listed as overdates, never doubled dies.

    I agree. Technically they're doubled dies but no one calls them that.

    In what sense are they doubled dies? Did they redo the whole hub or just repunch the date?

    Dates became part of the hub, and not punched into the die separately (starting in 1909 I think). Any over dates after that are from two separate hub impressions on the die and are technically doubled dies. The last "overdate" that was mentioned above was the 1909/8 $20 because it was a date overpunch on the die and not two separate hub impressions.

    I wasn't referring to the die but the hub. Repunching the date in a hub wouldn't be a doubled die. So did they actually put the entire 1918 hub over the 1917? If so, why are there no other doubled elements?

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • World67
    World67 Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:
    I think he meant overdate in the sense of a number punch. The coins above are technically doubled dies.

    Were you referring to the “coins above” that I posted? If so, I’ve always seen them listed as overdates, never doubled dies.

    I agree. Technically they're doubled dies but no one calls them that.

    In what sense are they doubled dies? Did they redo the whole hub or just repunch the date?

    Dates became part of the hub, and not punched into the die separately (starting in 1909 I think). Any over dates after that are from two separate hub impressions on the die and are technically doubled dies. The last "overdate" that was mentioned above was the 1909/8 $20 because it was a date overpunch on the die and not two separate hub impressions.

    I wasn't referring to the die but the hub. Repunching the date in a hub wouldn't be a doubled die. So did they actually put the entire 1918 hub over the 1917? If so, why are there no other doubled elements?

    Yes, they put the entire 1918 hub over the already 1917 hubbed die. I guess they lined in up perfectly.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:
    I think he meant overdate in the sense of a number punch. The coins above are technically doubled dies.

    Were you referring to the “coins above” that I posted? If so, I’ve always seen them listed as overdates, never doubled dies.

    I agree. Technically they're doubled dies but no one calls them that.

    In what sense are they doubled dies? Did they redo the whole hub or just repunch the date?

    Dates became part of the hub, and not punched into the die separately (starting in 1909 I think). Any over dates after that are from two separate hub impressions on the die and are technically doubled dies. The last "overdate" that was mentioned above was the 1909/8 $20 because it was a date overpunch on the die and not two separate hub impressions.

    I wasn't referring to the die but the hub. Repunching the date in a hub wouldn't be a doubled die. So did they actually put the entire 1918 hub over the 1917? If so, why are there no other doubled elements?

    Yes, they put the entire 1918 hub over the already 1917 hubbed die. I guess they lined in up perfectly.

    Thanks

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • coinbuf
    coinbuf Posts: 12,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2024 3:02PM
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    @Rice_Bandit said:
    I'm new to this. After Googling this, I think this is called an "overdate". I not sure if this is what it actually is. I don't think this is an error but just looks weird.

    Your coin is not an error, it is not an overdate, and it is not a true doubled die, it's called machine or mechanical doubling. This happens when one of the dies used to strike coins becomes loose in the press and during the striking of the coin the die bounces and produces this low relief second image. This happens very often and you can see examples on just about every type of coinage the US mint has made for circulation in the past 100+ years.

    Error-Ref.com has more information which you can read about at this link.

    https://error-ref.com/?s=mechanical+doubling

    Die deterioration can produce a similar look, but that problem tends to produce a more mushy less crisp secondary strike.

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  • Crypto
    Crypto Posts: 4,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2024 7:24PM
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    @Manifest_Destiny said:
    I think he meant overdate in the sense of a number punch. The coins above are technically doubled dies.

    The last punched overdate was the 1901/0s 5$. The 1909/8 20$ is a doubled die

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