It's not that bad. We probably have 12inches in the western suburbs of Denver. It kept me home today (school cancelled) but I'll do my best to make it to the show on Friday.
Main Roads in CO Springs are just fine, not too many people there today was nice. Picked up a couple coins and took pictures of some of the display coins that are way out of budget
.
My pickups, coin photography is not my strong point, wish I could share the beauty of this dime in hand the TV is pretty good.
@MsMorrisine said:
how many holes are in the bourse?
It’s a golf bourse!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
The 1943 copper cent imaged in this thread originated in a PCGS MS 63 RED ‘unknown planchet’ realizing $164,500. in StacksBowers and the lab report stated “91.7% copper, 7.5% zinc, 0.8% silver. 3.08 grams.”
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@Byers said:
The 1943 copper cent imaged in this thread originated in a PCGS MS 63 RED ‘unknown planchet’ realizing $164,500. in StacksBowers and the lab report stated “91.7% copper, 7.5% zinc, 0.8% silver. 3.08 grams.”
Considering the situation in 43, somewhat irregular alloys don’t seem that surprising. On the other hand, it might still be interesting to test a large and random sample of 1942 cents.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I think I would side with PCGS on this one and call the planchet "Bronze" rather than "Unknown."
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@Byers said:
The 1943 copper cent imaged in this thread originated in a PCGS MS 63 RED ‘unknown planchet’ realizing $164,500. in StacksBowers and the lab report stated “91.7% copper, 7.5% zinc, 0.8% silver. 3.08 grams.”
Considering the situation in 43, somewhat irregular alloys don’t seem that surprising. On the other hand, it might still be interesting to test a large and random sample of 1942 cents.
Yeah, they were so busy they cut corners on the minor coinage. I have mentioned here before how when I was at Collectors Clearinghouse back in the 70's I wrote to the head of the Mint Lab, Dr. Goldman, and asked about why the wartime nickels so often came laminated and what the actual specific gravity should be for one. He replied and said that he had been working at the Mint during the War, and he remembered that they were so stacked up they were storing ingots of non-precious metal alloying materials in an interior courtyard open to the weather. Included in them were ingots of manganese, which oxidized heavily out there in the open. He then said that they should have "scaled" these ingots (i.e., scrubbed them with a wire brush) before using them, but they were too busy and skipped that step. As a result, the manganese oxide got into the alloy and caused the later laminations.
When I was at ANACS and attributing Wartime off-metal pieces I tended to give pieces the benefit of the doubt when the weights and/or contents were just a little bit off. I would have done what PCGS did here and just called it "Bronze."
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
It went from $164,500 the first time certfied by PCGS as unknown
To over a million dollars after PCGS re-certified it as bronze:
As per PCGS and Heritage:
“MS63 Red. The sale of this coin for more than $1 million was reported by PCGS on 1/18/2018. It was purchased by the owner of The Dazzling Red Collection of Lincoln Wheat Cents. Oddly, this coin does not appear in the PCGS Population Report, but its cert number 32839117 still verifies.”
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@relicsncoins said:
We only had a couple of inches in Fort Collins.
Well over 15 inches here in Boulder County. Douglas County a lot worse.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Shoveling did me in today (8" of heavy snow this morning at my house) but plan on being there tomorrow. Can't wait!
It did start snowing again around 4pm at my house and have gotten another 2" so far. Supposed to snow throughout the night I believe before the storm moves out tomorrow. For non-Coloradans that means 60s on Saturday
@relicsncoins said:
We only had a couple of inches in Fort Collins.
Well over 15 inches here in Boulder County. Douglas County a lot worse.
It's been snowing since about noon here now. We have about 7 inches now. My daughter in Arvada said they were sitting at about 18 inches earlier today.
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
@Byers said:
The 1943 copper cent imaged in this thread originated in a PCGS MS 63 RED ‘unknown planchet’ realizing $164,500. in StacksBowers and the lab report stated “91.7% copper, 7.5% zinc, 0.8% silver. 3.08 grams.”
Considering the situation in 43, somewhat irregular alloys don’t seem that surprising. On the other hand, it might still be interesting to test a large and random sample of 1942 cents.
Yeah, they were so busy they cut corners on the minor coinage. I have mentioned here before how when I was at Collectors Clearinghouse back in the 70's I wrote to the head of the Mint Lab, Dr. Goldman, and asked about why the wartime nickels so often came laminated and what the actual specific gravity should be for one. He replied and said that he had been working at the Mint during the War, and he remembered that they were so stacked up they were storing ingots of non-precious metal alloying materials in an interior courtyard open to the weather. Included in them were ingots of manganese, which oxidized heavily out there in the open. He then said that they should have "scaled" these ingots (i.e., scrubbed them with a wire brush) before using them, but they were too busy and skipped that step. As a result, the manganese oxide got into the alloy and caused the later laminations.
When I was at ANACS and attributing Wartime off-metal pieces I tended to give pieces the benefit of the doubt when the weights and/or contents were just a little bit off. I would have done what PCGS did here and just called it "Bronze."
This is very interesting and thanks for posting it. Now this info will not be lost to numismatics! And another thing... you, me, and just a few others even remember that at one time there was a Mint Lab. As I recall from the fog of history a Dr. Hunter ran it later. BTW, the last time I contacted the Mint (ten years ago) NOBODY KNEW THAT LAB HAD EVER EXISTED! That's funny, When I was at ANACS in Washington, we took error coins and new C/F coins over there to show them - including the new "Omega" fakes. They had possession of the Mint Die Records in large ledgers going back to the 19th century where we looked up the HR dies that were used. Unfortunately, I thought those ledgers would always be available to me forever so the only thing I ever copied were the dies used for Seated Dollars (This info was published in the Gobrecht Journal a while back). I think we copied info on the 1909 cent dies also. Unfortunately, I believe these ledgers have been lost.
Please write MUCH MORE about your experiences at ANACS! I'll anxiously wait to read anything you remember.
@MsMorrisine said:
how many holes are in the bourse?
Wednesday setup had quite a few, but yesterday (Thursday) I don’t recall seeing an open table. The weather breaks around noon today. So it might be pretty cleared up when everyone leaves. The question will be regarding the positions of aircraft from canceled flights in and out. I saw the number at 800 flights on Thursday.
We ended up with a little over 20 inches in Boulder County. Sun trying to come out now.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@Byers said:
The 1943 copper cent imaged in this thread originated in a PCGS MS 63 RED ‘unknown planchet’ realizing $164,500. in StacksBowers and the lab report stated “91.7% copper, 7.5% zinc, 0.8% silver. 3.08 grams.”
Considering the situation in 43, somewhat irregular alloys don’t seem that surprising. On the other hand, it might still be interesting to test a large and random sample of 1942 cents.
Yeah, they were so busy they cut corners on the minor coinage. I have mentioned here before how when I was at Collectors Clearinghouse back in the 70's I wrote to the head of the Mint Lab, Dr. Goldman, and asked about why the wartime nickels so often came laminated and what the actual specific gravity should be for one. He replied and said that he had been working at the Mint during the War, and he remembered that they were so stacked up they were storing ingots of non-precious metal alloying materials in an interior courtyard open to the weather. Included in them were ingots of manganese, which oxidized heavily out there in the open. He then said that they should have "scaled" these ingots (i.e., scrubbed them with a wire brush) before using them, but they were too busy and skipped that step. As a result, the manganese oxide got into the alloy and caused the later laminations.
When I was at ANACS and attributing Wartime off-metal pieces I tended to give pieces the benefit of the doubt when the weights and/or contents were just a little bit off. I would have done what PCGS did here and just called it "Bronze."
This is very interesting and thanks for posting it. Now this info will not be lost to numismatics! And another thing... you, me, and just a few others even remember that at one time there was a Mint Lab. As I recall from the fog of history a Dr. Hunter ran it later. BTW, the last time I contacted the Mint (ten years ago) NOBODY KNEW THAT LAB HAD EVER EXISTED! That's funny, When I was at ANACS in Washington, we took error coins and new C/F coins over there to show them - including the new "Omega" fakes. They had possession of the Mint Die Records in large ledgers going back to the 19th century where we looked up the HR dies that were used. Unfortunately, I thought those ledgers would always be available to me forever so the only thing I ever copied were the dies used for Seated Dollars (This info was published in the Gobrecht Journal a while back). I think we copied info on the 1909 cent dies also. Unfortunately, I believe these ledgers have been lost.
Please write MUCH MORE about your experiences at ANACS! I'll anxiously wait to read anything you remember.
I did not know that the Mint Lab had a set of the Die Register books! They are probably still in the Mint somewhere.
The Newman Numismatic Library has a scan of most of the Denver Mint die register book for 1911-1925. I have used parts of it for my (as yet unpublished) book on the cents of 1922. I would love to see the Philadelphia and San Francisco registers for 1922.
Any generous soul wish to underwrite a Freedom of Information Act request for scans of any and all such die register books in the Mint's possession for deposit in the Newman Numismatic Library? I cannot do it because the Mint no longer speaks to me. I suspect that this is because I used to write about error coins, but I cannot be sure.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Well, the snow in greater Denver ended this morning, the sun came out and it got up to 43 and the roads are pretty good this afternoon. Very few flights cancelled today and things should be good for people going home Saturday.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Ok, i’ll oblige!
My brother lives in Denver, so i flew down Monday which turned out to be an excellent move on my part. Wednesday was dealer set up, good business for me personally but the bourse did appear light on dealers, heard later in the weekend of course of canceled flights and lots of travel woes.
My original plan was to commute from Denver every day but i chose wisely to book a room at the Broadmoor for Wednesday and Thursday night. Logistics wise the clear choice, financial wise pretty tough to swallow nearly 300 per night after resort fees and parking for their “Economy” room with the ANA rate. I will say the resort, room, people were unbelievably nice! Kudos to the Broadmoor. Also, i could have spent a whole day wandering around looking at art and local history.
Outstanding sales for me across the board, including slabs, raw and gold, i had a couple of numismatic gold coin sales and several bullion value coins too…
Thursday was a bit slow to start but traffic picked up throughout the day as folks including dealers made their way to the show.
Friday same story but did taper off after 3pm
Almost without exception dealers reported strong sales, only one commented otherwise, and still saturday sales to go.
@Crackout said:
Yes, I-25 south from Denver to Colorado Springs through Castle Rock, Larkspur and Monument can be quite treacherous when a lot of snow starts piling up!
On more than one occasion I've seen people do 360's in their vehicles when Surrey Ridge (on I-25) gets icy. One day I was witness to a slow speed (~10mph) 720 and then a smash into the guard rail separating I-25 North from South. Spectacular. Be careful and slow down a lot, when on Surrey Ridge in snowy, icy weather.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I was going to drive down to the Springs for the show and we got about 10-12" of HEAVY slushy freezing snow in 24 hours.
I'm just West of Denver. The snowfall depths were incredibly different just miles from each other. Ranging from a few inches out by Denver International Airport to almost 3 feet into the mountains.
I worked remotely for a couple days and made a nice beef and cabbage stew. Good blizzard food!
In the morning it was the kind of snow that's partially frozen and basically turns to slushy solid ice when you push on it...or try to get hundreds of pounds of it off of your car.
Hope everyone who got to the show safely had an awesome time!! Thanks for the mini reports! Next time for me
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
Overall, the show was actually a better one for us. Good sales, good conversations. Took advantage of the CAC crossover special. Didn't buy any coins, just a pair of Daniel Carr tokens, which flipped right into an ANACS submission. The snow was not a big problem for us. But I am now facing delayed flights. Better later getting home than getting to the show.
Why does ANA pick such a location in winter next to the rockies??
No even close to be worth the effort/ cost/ danger/ flying or driving to find a few coins.
70+ sunny degrees in California. Oh I forgot the ANA does not like going west of the rockies!
Last 8 years only one show west of rockies. If I recall rightly.
Comments
It's not that bad. We probably have 12inches in the western suburbs of Denver. It kept me home today (school cancelled) but I'll do my best to make it to the show on Friday.
how many holes are in the bourse?
Main Roads in CO Springs are just fine, not too many people there today was nice. Picked up a couple coins and took pictures of some of the display coins that are way out of budget
.
My pickups, coin photography is not my strong point, wish I could share the beauty of this dime in hand the TV is pretty good.
And a new SLQ 1917 S T2
We got a foot and a half, and forecast shows 8 more inches.
Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.
The 1943 copper cent imaged in this thread originated in a PCGS MS 63 RED ‘unknown planchet’ realizing $164,500. in StacksBowers and the lab report stated “91.7% copper, 7.5% zinc, 0.8% silver. 3.08 grams.”
Considering the situation in 43, somewhat irregular alloys don’t seem that surprising. On the other hand, it might still be interesting to test a large and random sample of 1942 cents.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I think I would side with PCGS on this one and call the planchet "Bronze" rather than "Unknown."
PCGS slabbed it twice.
First as unknown, then as bronze.
This was a huge score for somebody.
A fantastic mint error!
Yeah, they were so busy they cut corners on the minor coinage. I have mentioned here before how when I was at Collectors Clearinghouse back in the 70's I wrote to the head of the Mint Lab, Dr. Goldman, and asked about why the wartime nickels so often came laminated and what the actual specific gravity should be for one. He replied and said that he had been working at the Mint during the War, and he remembered that they were so stacked up they were storing ingots of non-precious metal alloying materials in an interior courtyard open to the weather. Included in them were ingots of manganese, which oxidized heavily out there in the open. He then said that they should have "scaled" these ingots (i.e., scrubbed them with a wire brush) before using them, but they were too busy and skipped that step. As a result, the manganese oxide got into the alloy and caused the later laminations.
When I was at ANACS and attributing Wartime off-metal pieces I tended to give pieces the benefit of the doubt when the weights and/or contents were just a little bit off. I would have done what PCGS did here and just called it "Bronze."
Yes, I would have called it bronze too.
But my point was…
PCGS originally called it unknown.
It went from $164,500 the first time certfied by PCGS as unknown
To over a million dollars after PCGS re-certified it as bronze:
As per PCGS and Heritage:
“MS63 Red. The sale of this coin for more than $1 million was reported by PCGS on 1/18/2018. It was purchased by the owner of The Dazzling Red Collection of Lincoln Wheat Cents. Oddly, this coin does not appear in the PCGS Population Report, but its cert number 32839117 still verifies.”
We only had a couple of inches in Fort Collins.
Well over 15 inches here in Boulder County. Douglas County a lot worse.
I'm more than double @FlyingAl 's age and yet...why am I so juvenile and immature?
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US Gold Showcase --- World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Shoveling did me in today (8" of heavy snow this morning at my house) but plan on being there tomorrow. Can't wait!
It did start snowing again around 4pm at my house and have gotten another 2" so far. Supposed to snow throughout the night I believe before the storm moves out tomorrow. For non-Coloradans that means 60s on Saturday
Take pictures of the bourse. It'll give an idea to the number of no shows. Obviously Saturday doesn't count
It's been snowing since about noon here now. We have about 7 inches now. My daughter in Arvada said they were sitting at about 18 inches earlier today.
Ah.........a lot more than double wouldn't you say
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
This is very interesting and thanks for posting it. Now this info will not be lost to numismatics! And another thing... you, me, and just a few others even remember that at one time there was a Mint Lab. As I recall from the fog of history a Dr. Hunter ran it later. BTW, the last time I contacted the Mint (ten years ago) NOBODY KNEW THAT LAB HAD EVER EXISTED! That's funny, When I was at ANACS in Washington, we took error coins and new C/F coins over there to show them - including the new "Omega" fakes. They had possession of the Mint Die Records in large ledgers going back to the 19th century where we looked up the HR dies that were used. Unfortunately, I thought those ledgers would always be available to me forever so the only thing I ever copied were the dies used for Seated Dollars (This info was published in the Gobrecht Journal a while back). I think we copied info on the 1909 cent dies also. Unfortunately, I believe these ledgers have been lost.
Please write MUCH MORE about your experiences at ANACS! I'll anxiously wait to read anything you remember.
The Broadmoor this morning.
Nah, I'm a young'un around here, not even triple Al's age!
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US Gold Showcase --- World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Wednesday setup had quite a few, but yesterday (Thursday) I don’t recall seeing an open table. The weather breaks around noon today. So it might be pretty cleared up when everyone leaves. The question will be regarding the positions of aircraft from canceled flights in and out. I saw the number at 800 flights on Thursday.
We ended up with a little over 20 inches in Boulder County. Sun trying to come out now.
I did not know that the Mint Lab had a set of the Die Register books! They are probably still in the Mint somewhere.
The Newman Numismatic Library has a scan of most of the Denver Mint die register book for 1911-1925. I have used parts of it for my (as yet unpublished) book on the cents of 1922. I would love to see the Philadelphia and San Francisco registers for 1922.
Any generous soul wish to underwrite a Freedom of Information Act request for scans of any and all such die register books in the Mint's possession for deposit in the Newman Numismatic Library? I cannot do it because the Mint no longer speaks to me. I suspect that this is because I used to write about error coins, but I cannot be sure.
TD
How about some reports and/or pics from the bourse?
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Well, the snow in greater Denver ended this morning, the sun came out and it got up to 43 and the roads are pretty good this afternoon. Very few flights cancelled today and things should be good for people going home Saturday.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Ok, i’ll oblige!
My brother lives in Denver, so i flew down Monday which turned out to be an excellent move on my part. Wednesday was dealer set up, good business for me personally but the bourse did appear light on dealers, heard later in the weekend of course of canceled flights and lots of travel woes.
My original plan was to commute from Denver every day but i chose wisely to book a room at the Broadmoor for Wednesday and Thursday night. Logistics wise the clear choice, financial wise pretty tough to swallow nearly 300 per night after resort fees and parking for their “Economy” room with the ANA rate. I will say the resort, room, people were unbelievably nice! Kudos to the Broadmoor. Also, i could have spent a whole day wandering around looking at art and local history.
Outstanding sales for me across the board, including slabs, raw and gold, i had a couple of numismatic gold coin sales and several bullion value coins too…
Thursday was a bit slow to start but traffic picked up throughout the day as folks including dealers made their way to the show.
Friday same story but did taper off after 3pm
Almost without exception dealers reported strong sales, only one commented otherwise, and still saturday sales to go.
Thanks for the report (& pics)!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Thank you for the photos.
On more than one occasion I've seen people do 360's in their vehicles when Surrey Ridge (on I-25) gets icy. One day I was witness to a slow speed (~10mph) 720 and then a smash into the guard rail separating I-25 North from South. Spectacular. Be careful and slow down a lot, when on Surrey Ridge in snowy, icy weather.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I was going to drive down to the Springs for the show and we got about 10-12" of HEAVY slushy freezing snow in 24 hours.
I'm just West of Denver. The snowfall depths were incredibly different just miles from each other. Ranging from a few inches out by Denver International Airport to almost 3 feet into the mountains.
I worked remotely for a couple days and made a nice beef and cabbage stew. Good blizzard food!
In the morning it was the kind of snow that's partially frozen and basically turns to slushy solid ice when you push on it...or try to get hundreds of pounds of it off of your car.
Hope everyone who got to the show safely had an awesome time!! Thanks for the mini reports! Next time for me
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
looks and reads like a still great show
Overall, the show was actually a better one for us. Good sales, good conversations. Took advantage of the CAC crossover special. Didn't buy any coins, just a pair of Daniel Carr tokens, which flipped right into an ANACS submission. The snow was not a big problem for us. But I am now facing delayed flights. Better later getting home than getting to the show.
Things to do in Colorado during a snowstorm
Coin Show
.
But Not Skiing
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/colorado-winter-sports-resort-is-forced-to-close-after-being-hit-by-biggest-winter-storm-in-decades-that-dumped-46-inches-of-snow-and-triggered-multiple-avalanches/ar-BB1k19lv
Picnic anyone?
Why does ANA pick such a location in winter next to the rockies??
No even close to be worth the effort/ cost/ danger/ flying or driving to find a few coins.
70+ sunny degrees in California. Oh I forgot the ANA does not like going west of the rockies!
Last 8 years only one show west of rockies. If I recall rightly.
Saturday morning with snow on the plains.