Possible weather problems for upcoming ANA show

I think I would side with PCGS on this one and call the planchet "Bronze" rather than "Unknown."

@MrEureka said:

@Byers said:
The 1943 copper cent imaged in this thread originated in a PCGS MS 63 RED ‘unknown planchet’ realizing $164,500. in StacksBowers and the lab report stated “91.7% copper, 7.5% zinc, 0.8% silver. 3.08 grams.”

Considering the situation in 43, somewhat irregular alloys don’t seem that surprising. On the other hand, it might still be interesting to test a large and random sample of 1942 cents.

Yeah, they were so busy they cut corners on the minor coinage. I have mentioned here before how when I was at Collectors Clearinghouse back in the 70's I wrote to the head of the Mint Lab, Dr. Goldman, and asked about why the wartime nickels so often came laminated and what the actual specific gravity should be for one. He replied and said that he had been working at the Mint during the War, and he remembered that they were so stacked up they were storing ingots of non-precious metal alloying materials in an interior courtyard open to the weather. Included in them were ingots of manganese, which oxidized heavily out there in the open. He then said that they should have "scaled" these ingots (i.e., scrubbed them with a wire brush) before using them, but they were too busy and skipped that step. As a result, the manganese oxide got into the alloy and caused the later laminations.

When I was at ANACS and attributing Wartime off-metal pieces I tended to give pieces the benefit of the doubt when the weights and/or contents were just a little bit off. I would have done what PCGS did here and just called it "Bronze."

@Insider3 said:

@CaptHenway said:

@MrEureka said:

@Byers said:
The 1943 copper cent imaged in this thread originated in a PCGS MS 63 RED ‘unknown planchet’ realizing $164,500. in StacksBowers and the lab report stated “91.7% copper, 7.5% zinc, 0.8% silver. 3.08 grams.”

Considering the situation in 43, somewhat irregular alloys don’t seem that surprising. On the other hand, it might still be interesting to test a large and random sample of 1942 cents.

Yeah, they were so busy they cut corners on the minor coinage. I have mentioned here before how when I was at Collectors Clearinghouse back in the 70's I wrote to the head of the Mint Lab, Dr. Goldman, and asked about why the wartime nickels so often came laminated and what the actual specific gravity should be for one. He replied and said that he had been working at the Mint during the War, and he remembered that they were so stacked up they were storing ingots of non-precious metal alloying materials in an interior courtyard open to the weather. Included in them were ingots of manganese, which oxidized heavily out there in the open. He then said that they should have "scaled" these ingots (i.e., scrubbed them with a wire brush) before using them, but they were too busy and skipped that step. As a result, the manganese oxide got into the alloy and caused the later laminations.

When I was at ANACS and attributing Wartime off-metal pieces I tended to give pieces the benefit of the doubt when the weights and/or contents were just a little bit off. I would have done what PCGS did here and just called it "Bronze."

This is very interesting and thanks for posting it. Now this info will not be lost to numismatics! And another thing... you, me, and just a few others even remember that at one time there was a Mint Lab. As I recall from the fog of history a Dr. Hunter ran it later. BTW, the last time I contacted the Mint (ten years ago) NOBODY KNEW THAT LAB HAD EVER EXISTED! That's funny, When I was at ANACS in Washington, we took error coins and new C/F coins over there to show them - including the new "Omega" fakes. They had possession of the Mint Die Records in large ledgers going back to the 19th century where we looked up the HR dies that were used. Unfortunately, I thought those ledgers would always be available to me forever so the only thing I ever copied were the dies used for Seated Dollars (This info was published in the Gobrecht Journal a while back). I think we copied info on the 1909 cent dies also. Unfortunately, I believe these ledgers have been lost.

Please write MUCH MORE about your experiences at ANACS! I'll anxiously wait to read anything you remember.

I did not know that the Mint Lab had a set of the Die Register books! They are probably still in the Mint somewhere.

The Newman Numismatic Library has a scan of most of the Denver Mint die register book for 1911-1925. I have used parts of it for my (as yet unpublished) book on the cents of 1922. I would love to see the Philadelphia and San Francisco registers for 1922.

Any generous soul wish to underwrite a Freedom of Information Act request for scans of any and all such die register books in the Mint's possession for deposit in the Newman Numismatic Library? I cannot do it because the Mint no longer speaks to me. I suspect that this is because I used to write about error coins, but I cannot be sure.

TD

Well, the snow in greater Denver ended this morning, the sun came out and it got up to 43 and the roads are pretty good this afternoon. Very few flights cancelled today and things should be good for people going home Saturday.