I like the 82 and 83s since they're more of a challenge to find in higher grades. But, it is still a challenge to move them.
Exhibit A. 1983 D PCGS MS67FB Price Guide 2,200.00 I began pricing at 1800 and dropped to 1200 before removing it from the list. I may end up letting it rip at .99c.
Exhibit B. 1982 P & D PCGS MS67 Price Guide 500 & 425. I did finally move this pair at around 60% of PG and took a few weeks.
Now, I will say that I have no problem moving Kennedys and Ikes in MS65 & 66 but I'm not ready to list the MS67 Kennedys as they are my current core collecting habit. Based on that reality I'm sure they will do well when the time comes.
I think there's a different league of collector that is willing to buy $1000+ moderns in the top grades and there's very few of them. If I'm spending $1000 on a coin, I think I want something that seems more special like a DMPL Morgan.
A 1971 Ike Dollar is 53 years old. I don't consider this coin to be a "modern"... I would call it the new classic coinage. I'm not sure about precious metal silver coins from the past being more popular in the future than the new classic coinage. But as the OP has said.... Promotion is the key. How about a red book for only US 1965 coins to present date! That would be a good start. Whitman could sell two red book products also...
I never understood the thrill of seeking top pop modern material given that literally billions were struck. Most people won’t spend their time searching for or even sending that stuff in and if they did the top pop coin would have plenty of other coins joining the club.
@Colonialcoin said:
I never understood the thrill of seeking top pop modern material given that literally billions were struck. Most people won’t spend their time searching for or even sending that stuff in and if they did the top pop coin would have plenty of other coins joining the club.
Wanna bet?
While this coin has deficiencies it is about as good as this date was made. About 99.8% of coins this nice or better went straight into circulation. Fewer than 1 or 2% of survivors are this nice. You can check every single one of these and you might not find a true Gem. When the sample size is so small and the incidence of the nice coins is so small it doesn't matter what the mintage was. The same thing applies to most moderns; attrition has wiped out almost the entire mintage because they are not collected.
I wonder how much "promotion" really matters with any coins anymore. Maybe it did back in the day. Collectors of old didn't have instant access to mintage records, rarity ratings, certified coin grade census, price guides, auction records, etc. They read publications and went to local coin dealers, and coin clubs, where they would learn about rare coins. So promotion played a big role in what people decided to collect. It also encouraged many people to collect the same thing, creating the notion of key dates amongst coins that are not particularly rare.
But nowadays, do people really care what coins are being promoted? We already have a registry set where people can compete for the highest certified grades on moderns. We can instantly see population reports. We can get price records easily as well. What more promotion is needed? When I hear coins advertised as being "conditionally rare" or "sleepers", it just sounds like advertising. Nowadays, collectors are much less structured in their set building, and we usually recommend to young collectors to buy nice coins that they like, rather than work within some rigid set parameters. If a coin is supposed to be scarce, I can pretty easily verify that. I guess the younger generations like to follow their influencers, but most collectors generally aren't the types that blindly follow the crowds, collecting has never been a particularly popular thing among 'cool kids', and I've long been of the belief that coin collectors are generally more intelligent and worldly than the average bear. So I'm not sure what promotion accomplishes.
By the way, I know nothing of the grade rarity of 1992-P nickels. When I looked up the issue, it appears that they produced 400 million of them. Obviously they aren't all still around, and most are not uncirculated, but I feel like a promoter would have a hard time selling me as this being a particularly rare coin or good investment. But I also think that chasing top-pop Morgans is kind of silly too, so maybe I'm just the wrong audience.
@Coin Finder said:
A 1971 Ike Dollar is 53 years old. I don't consider this coin to be a "modern"... I would call it the new classic coinage. I'm not sure about precious metal silver coins from the past being more popular in the future than the new classic coinage. But as the OP has said.... Promotion is the key. How about a red book for only US 1965 coins to present date! That would be a good start. Whitman could sell two red book products also...
The more I think about this the better it sounds. Old time collectors wouldn't have to see the values for moderns if the Redbook were split. Prices could be listed in grades that collectors actually seek them; "poptops", "Gems", "MS-64", and "chBU". Might as well list MS-60 price as well. This would open up the door to list the older circulating issues in VF and XF as well since these do attract interest on eBay.
More accurate pricing would be a huge shot in the arm for the modern markets. Selling would be far easier and buying wouldn't require years of experience.
@oih82w8 said:
There is little to no interest in the bland current designs. Bring back the classics to stir up interest again!
Oh, please no.
The love for classics is for one reason, they are classics.
There are a lot of movies now (and TV shows) that have been remade and I can't think of a single example that are as good as the originals.
One exception, IMO the 2003 remake of Vegas with James Caan was better than the original. I mean no disrespect to Dan Tanna (Robert Urich). The 1978-81 Vegas did have a trump card in Phyllis Davis (Beatrice).
@FrankH said:
Other than the state quarters that were novel and educational to an extent, most new issues are purely political and propaganda biased.
Coinage is always political. The use of the image of Liberty has been used to communicate political ideas since it was used by the Romans on coinage during the Republic. The assassins of Julius Caesar issued coins with Libertas on them, which was clearly using coinage for propaganda purposes. (The word propaganda is often misused and people believe it has an automatic negative connotation…it really means using information to try and get a political point across, nothing more, nothing less). Modern coinage doesn’t deviate from that norm. It’s just that some people disagree with its message, which is understandable because that’s always been the case.
Actually I was just going to ask you @cladking about the State Quarter program and what effects it might have. Last summer I took my wife on a trip to junk stores and to my surprise we encountered more than a dozen kids under the age of 18; all of them looking for specific State quarters. They all had what to me looked like detailed lists of coins had/wanted. I have no idea what kind of money was being paid or if condition played a role but it was a shock to see young people actively pursuing ANY kind of coins. James
I may be missing the point here if so sue me. If I could still find mint state Walkers in circ. then I would but I can't so I don't.
This one came from the same seven sets as the quarters and from the bay. Poor pictures so I received very little resistance in the auction which was nice. However, the pics did give away the one thing, luster which was enough to gamble on the preservation. And there were several more FBs and 66s.
@seatedlib3991 said:
Actually I was just going to ask you @cladking about the State Quarter program and what effects it might have. Last summer I took my wife on a trip to junk stores and to my surprise we encountered more than a dozen kids under the age of 18; all of them looking for specific State quarters. They all had what to me looked like detailed lists of coins had/wanted. I have no idea what kind of money was being paid or if condition played a role but it was a shock to see young people actively pursuing ANY kind of coins. James
There is a lot of evidence that coin collecting is becoming extremely popular again. This started in1999 With countless millions of baby boomers returning to the hobby and many more millions of children and young people. Millions more have started since 1999. Many of these collectors are still maturing and becoming more sophisticated.
I'm seeing the same thing when I'm out and about and even at home there are sometimes competing coin shows on TV. I'm seeing more coin references in popular culture. Coins are simply on peoples' minds and they weren't between 1965 and 1999 so they weren't saved.
‘A few individual collectors compete to have the finest sets but the nearly equally scarce and desirable coins just a couple grades lower have no demand.”
There is NOTHING “nearly equal” between a 1970-D 50C MS67 and one in MS65. Or, a 1969-P or 1971-P 25C in MS67 and one in MS65. Etc, etc.
And, there is not even a “problem” with the very healthy modern coin market. I was just looking at a cover page article in the Numismatist magazine on modern proofs written about 7 years ago where myself and Rick Tomaska were the (2) quoted sources for the piece. I was amazed at how the market has so positively progressed over those 7 years and the strength of the many prized coins quoted by the 2 sources (check it out).
To paraphrase Paul Simon in his 1975 “classic” hit song, dedicated to my dear friend CK …
"The problem is all inside your head," he said to me
"The answer is easy if you take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free
There must be fifty ways to love your moderns
He said, "It's really not my habit to intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself at the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways to love your moderns"
Fifty ways to love your moderns!!
Cheers!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Let's apply Occam's razor. Any coin is worth what someone will pay for it. It is just that simple. The reasons it is worth the price; is different, for each and every one of us. I tend to be willing to over pay, for anything (Car or Coin) minted in 1967, or 1986. Anything else, value hawk!
@wondercoin said:
‘A few individual collectors compete to have the finest sets but the nearly equally scarce and desirable coins just a couple grades lower have no demand.”
There is NOTHING “nearly equal” between a 1970-D 50C MS67 and one in MS65. Or, a 1969-P or 1971-P 25C in MS67 and one in MS65. Etc, etc.
And, there is not even a “problem” with the very healthy modern coin market. I was just looking at a cover page article in the Numismatist magazine on modern proofs written about 7 years ago where myself and Rick Tomaska were the (2) quoted sources for the piece. I was amazed at how the market has so positively progressed over those 7 years and the strength of the many prized coins quoted by the 2 sources (check it out).
To paraphrase Paul Simon in his 1975 “classic” hit song, dedicated to my dear friend CK …
"The problem is all inside your head," he said to me
"The answer is easy if you take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free
There must be fifty ways to love your moderns
He said, "It's really not my habit to intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself at the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways to love your moderns"
Fifty ways to love your moderns!!
There's no "wrong way" to love your coins and moderns can be the best of all.
I simply can't understand the almost universal lack of love for nice attractive chBU and MS_64 examples. Nor do I understand how something like an MS-64 '69 quarter garners so little attention.
Which brings us to another problem with moderns; The vast majority of collectors concentrate on coins that don't need certification. This leaves them wondering if the nice chBU they see on eBay under market for only $80 might not come back as a lower grade coin if it ever is sent in. This makes them squeamish to bid on a nice Gem tough date.
Low grade and high grade moderns do well. But I could never find many of those high grades and never liked the low end coins. I agree moderns are a very healthy market and getting more attention all the time.
There's no simple solution to these problems but some can be addressed. The definition of "BU roll" can be standardized so a '92-P nickel roll that sells for $200 doesn't Greysheet for $12.50
Price guides should specify which coins actually need grading for the listed wholesale price. Obviously a 1979-D cent in MS-60 doesn't need certification to bring 10c. But by the same token a nice 1982 chBU roll that sells on eBay for $4000 without the need for grading isn't the same roll that lists for $235.
Many people seem to believe that a $2 or $20 modern has no value at all until it is certified. Then they are told to buy the coin and not the holder.
The modern market will never arise until collectors feel safe to collect.
Many people seem to believe that a $2 or $20 modern has no value at all until it is certified. Then they are told to buy the coin and not the holder.
The modern market will never arise until collectors feel safe to collect.
This exists with older coins too, when it comes to sell, you get burned with raw coins unless its a set or bullion or junk.
This!
No one should spend $80 on an uncertified condition rarity modern unless they are willing to get buried in it. There's an old saying in the coin world, with variations, that says "a coin goes up a grade when you're selling it and down a grade when you're buying it. " Big difference in price between a 66 1969 Washington and a 68. Big risk paying 68 money for a coin that's a 67 or 66.
And the same is true of classic coins with a spread between grades. You can buy/sell raw AU/Unc Morgans easily. But you better be damn sure before you pay 66 money for a raw coin.
Even if you're sure, you need to find a buyer later who is equally sure.
Asides from the true lack of rarity, except for the highest grades, my biggest complaint about moderns is the lack of depth in the coins; Washingtons in the 70's compared to now are like a bowl versus a plate in depth. I like the detail, but they are just too flat, IMHO. I do like the newer designs, but think the whole lot of them is due for an overhaul.
@Coinscratch said:
Let’s try this again. The real problem with moderns is (most) the best ones have already been snagged.
So for every non modern collector here on the forum there’s prolly 1,000 more who are players, just not on the forum.
The real problem with moderns is the designs have been dreadful. Washington Quarters bland, (good for the parking meter Lol). Roosevelt dimes not exciting, Franklin Halves Meh so so, as well as Jefferson’s. Exception I think are the Ike’s which are fairly attractive with a matte finish in 40% silver for collectors.
The coin collecting boom died when the amazing modern designs of the Mercury Dime, WLH dollar, SLQ, Saint Gaudens and Lincoln Wheaties ceased. Only to be replaced by these imposters. Sad but true.
I wonder what would happen to collecting coins of the current design if all of the current designs were retired and replaced with something different (i.e. get rid of the cent and nickel, add new $1.00, $2.00 and $5.00 coins, get rid of $1, $2 and $5 bills, and have new designs for the dime, quarter, half dollar, dollar, two dollar and five dollar coins).
I would expect if the above happened some type of change (for better or for worse) would take place within the hobby. The persons collecting the newly retired coins would become more interested in collecting them (at least for a short period of time as market makers/promoters would act to stimulate interest in the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of collecting these retired coins, before they are gone forever).
@ProofCollection said:
I'm not really sure I understand the OP. The problem with moderns is that they are generally so abundant that in any grade but the top grade they are worth less than the cost to have them graded and the only reason that the cheap slabs exist is because someone thought their coin was nicer than it was.
Agreed... And in my experience at least, many if not most who insist clad moderns are the next big thing would rather "make" said high grade/top grade examples rather than buy them. That doesn't bode well for a long term broad based sustainable market imo, much less sustainable value.
@SanctionII said:
I wonder what would happen to collecting coins of the current design if all of the current designs were retired and replaced with something different (i.e. get rid of the cent and nickel, add new $1.00, $2.00 and $5.00 coins, get rid of $1, $2 and $5 bills, and have new designs for the dime, quarter, half dollar, dollar, two dollar and five dollar coins).
I would expect if the above happened some type of change (for better or for worse) would take place within the hobby. The persons collecting the newly retired coins would become more interested in collecting them (at least for a short period of time as market makers/promoters would act to stimulate interest in the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of collecting these retired coins, before they are gone forever).
Makes sense as the current designs haven’t changed substantially in 50 or more years
Agreed... And in my experience at least, many if not most who insist clad moderns are the next big thing would rather "make" said high grade/top grade examples rather than buy them. That doesn't bode well for a long term broad based sustainable market imo, much less sustainable value.
Sigh.
Right now there are BU rolls of moderns for sale at prices that are many multiples of Greysheet. This isn't so much to say that Greysheet prices don't mean anything with moderns but obviously there is a lot more going on than ANY of the price guides suggest. As I've said many times the source of the anomalies is always the exact same thing; virtually no supply running up against virtually no demand. The guides can list a coin as being worth only 25c but this never means you can run out and buy one for a quarter because the coins don't exist. They almost all went into circulation but this has been invisible all these years because nobody wanted any anyway.
Greysheet, for instance, lists a 1976 type I Ike at $3 in MS-63 but the wholesale price on this coin is over $4. Wholesale is $80 per roll of 20. It's not like you can go to the nearest coin shop and stock up on this super common coin. Indeed, there are very few sources and most will send you an MS-60 at substantially higher prices than $4. Some will just go out and buy a 1975 mint set but there are several problems with this like the simple fact tha5t most of these are long gone. When you find a survivor there are STILL two huge problems; first the Philly Ike will be tarnished 95% of the time and second you have to plan on buying a few sets because MS-60 and MS-62 are much more common than nice MS-63's even if you find original unsearched sets. It's not like there are dozens of suppliers for this coin, OR ANY OTHER MODERN, because there is no market. If a mass market were to actually arise there wouldn't be enough of these coins readily available to even fill up the pipeline. These are not like any other $4 coin. A $4 indian cent is exceedingly common. A $4 modern in almost every case is far tougher.
@Coinscratch said:
Let’s try this again. The real problem with moderns is (most) the best ones have already been snagged.
So for every non modern collector here on the forum there’s prolly 1,000 more who are players, just not on the forum.
The real problem with moderns is the designs have been dreadful. Washington Quarters bland, (good for the parking meter Lol). Roosevelt dimes not exciting, Franklin Halves Meh so so, as well as Jefferson’s. Exception I think are the Ike’s which are fairly attractive with a matte finish in 40% silver for collectors.
The coin collecting boom died when the amazing modern designs of the Mercury Dime, WLH dollar, SLQ, Saint Gaudens and Lincoln Wheaties ceased. Only to be replaced by these imposters. Sad but true.
That's a matter of opinion. Not that I necessarily disagree but I'm not sure 100 years ago they didn't think those coins were awful also. The current designs are a little long in the tooth though.
The problem with coin designs is always what do you put on the coin? Everything's been done... people, presidents, liberty symbols, animals, parks, states, presidents, inventions, buildings, sports. I'm not sure what's left. Food?
I’m not ballsy enough (yet) to sell a raw coin and I mean a nice raw modern on the bay. One that would grade 67 like a Kennedy or Ike.
However, all of the Raw moderns I see on the bay look like crap, problem coins or its a stock photo. And I’m not into selling BU coins for $15 so let me ask a question, is it unethical to end an auction late in the game if I feel like the money isn’t going to get there?
I see your Double post and raise you a Triple post
I call your set and raise with 4 of a kind.
Damn son, Just remember the once in a lifetime full eclipse of the sun happens right over my house in Cleveland - you are welcome - and anybody else - just PM me - I'm cereal
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I see your Double post and raise you a Triple post
I call your set and raise with 4 of a kind.
Damn son, Just remember the once in a lifetime full eclipse of the sun happens right over my house in Cleveland - you are welcome - and anybody else - just PM me - I'm cereal
@Coinscratch said:
I’m not ballsy enough (yet) to sell a raw coin and I mean a nice raw modern on the bay. One that would grade 67 like a Kennedy or Ike.
However, all of the Raw moderns I see on the bay look like crap, problem coins or its a stock photo. And I’m not into selling BU coins for $15 so let me ask a question, is it unethical to end an auction late in the game if I feel like the money isn’t going to get there?
@Coinscratch said:
I’m not ballsy enough (yet) to sell a raw coin and I mean a nice raw modern on the bay. One that would grade 67 like a Kennedy or Ike.
However, all of the Raw moderns I see on the bay look like crap, problem coins or its a stock photo. And I’m not into selling BU coins for $15 so let me ask a question, is it unethical to end an auction late in the game if I feel like the money isn’t going to get there?
A little bit.
Meaning? It’s not very nice but I wouldn’t suffer a bad review over it?
Or it’s not very nice and she’s cancelling the prom date and/or any future dates?
@Coinscratch said:
I’m not ballsy enough (yet) to sell a raw coin and I mean a nice raw modern on the bay. One that would grade 67 like a Kennedy or Ike.
However, all of the Raw moderns I see on the bay look like crap, problem coins or its a stock photo. And I’m not into selling BU coins for $15 so let me ask a question, is it unethical to end an auction late in the game if I feel like the money isn’t going to get there?
A little bit.
Meaning? It’s not very nice but I wouldn’t suffer a bad review over it?
Or it’s not very nice and she’s cancelling the prom date and/or any future dates?
Meaning you would likely get a bad review over it, but it's not illegal.
Have you not seen numerous threads over "lost items" that forum members feel are due to the sale price being too low?
If you are unwilling to sell it for less than $50, then either start it at $50 or put a reserve on it. To start it at $1 and let people get invested in winning it just to pull the rug out from under them is a lousy way to treat people. You're essentially lying to them about the nature of the sale.
You're right and thanks for putting it into perspective. I would hate for that to happen to me. I'll just stick to selling graded to prevent any love loss for either party @jmlanzaf
@oih82w8 said:
There is little to no interest in the bland current designs. Bring back the classics to stir up interest again!
Oh, please no.
The love for classics is for one reason, they are classics.
There are a lot of movies now (and TV shows) that have been remade and I can't think of a single example that are as good as the originals.
One exception, IMO the 2003 remake of Vegas with James Caan was better than the original. I mean no disrespect to Dan Tanna (Robert Urich). The 1978-81 Vegas did have a trump card in Phyllis Davis (Beatrice).
No modern replacement for Phyllis Diller either.. even with a coveted Beastie Boys drop.
Promote that.
@SanctionII said:
I wonder what would happen to collecting coins of the current design if all of the current designs were retired and replaced with something different (i.e. get rid of the cent and nickel, add new $1.00, $2.00 and $5.00 coins, get rid of $1, $2 and $5 bills, and have new designs for the dime, quarter, half dollar, dollar, two dollar and five dollar coins).
I would expect if the above happened some type of change (for better or for worse) would take place within the hobby. The persons collecting the newly retired coins would become more interested in collecting them (at least for a short period of time as market makers/promoters would act to stimulate interest in the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of collecting these retired coins, before they are gone forever).
$1 $2 and $5 coins will never achieve wide use in the US because no one wants them. $1 bills are lasting longer than ever and a 2019 GAO report now states it would cost more to replace the $1 bill with a $1 coin, I think COVID has accelerated that.
@Coinscratch said:
I’m not ballsy enough (yet) to sell a raw coin and I mean a nice raw modern on the bay. One that would grade 67 like a Kennedy or Ike.
However, all of the Raw moderns I see on the bay look like crap, problem coins or its a stock photo. And I’m not into selling BU coins for $15 so let me ask a question, is it unethical to end an auction late in the game if I feel like the money isn’t going to get there?
A little bit.
Meaning? It’s not very nice but I wouldn’t suffer a bad review over it?
Or it’s not very nice and she’s cancelling the prom date and/or any future dates?
Meaning you would likely get a bad review over it, but it's not illegal.
Have you not seen numerous threads over "lost items" that forum members feel are due to the sale price being too low?
If you are unwilling to sell it for less than $50, then either start it at $50 or put a reserve on it. To start it at $1 and let people get invested in winning it just to pull the rug out from under them is a lousy way to treat people. You're essentially lying to them about the nature of the sale.
I agree that it's crappy behavior but I had to do it once because of a substantial error in the listing. Ebay assessed a penalty, which I guess is fair.
Comments
I like the 82 and 83s since they're more of a challenge to find in higher grades. But, it is still a challenge to move them.
Exhibit A. 1983 D PCGS MS67FB Price Guide 2,200.00 I began pricing at 1800 and dropped to 1200 before removing it from the list. I may end up letting it rip at .99c.
Exhibit B. 1982 P & D PCGS MS67 Price Guide 500 & 425. I did finally move this pair at around 60% of PG and took a few weeks.
Now, I will say that I have no problem moving Kennedys and Ikes in MS65 & 66 but I'm not ready to list the MS67 Kennedys as they are my current core collecting habit. Based on that reality I'm sure they will do well when the time comes.
I think there's a different league of collector that is willing to buy $1000+ moderns in the top grades and there's very few of them. If I'm spending $1000 on a coin, I think I want something that seems more special like a DMPL Morgan.
A 1971 Ike Dollar is 53 years old. I don't consider this coin to be a "modern"... I would call it the new classic coinage. I'm not sure about precious metal silver coins from the past being more popular in the future than the new classic coinage. But as the OP has said.... Promotion is the key. How about a red book for only US 1965 coins to present date! That would be a good start. Whitman could sell two red book products also...
I never understood the thrill of seeking top pop modern material given that literally billions were struck. Most people won’t spend their time searching for or even sending that stuff in and if they did the top pop coin would have plenty of other coins joining the club.
Wanna bet?
While this coin has deficiencies it is about as good as this date was made. About 99.8% of coins this nice or better went straight into circulation. Fewer than 1 or 2% of survivors are this nice. You can check every single one of these and you might not find a true Gem. When the sample size is so small and the incidence of the nice coins is so small it doesn't matter what the mintage was. The same thing applies to most moderns; attrition has wiped out almost the entire mintage because they are not collected.
I wonder how much "promotion" really matters with any coins anymore. Maybe it did back in the day. Collectors of old didn't have instant access to mintage records, rarity ratings, certified coin grade census, price guides, auction records, etc. They read publications and went to local coin dealers, and coin clubs, where they would learn about rare coins. So promotion played a big role in what people decided to collect. It also encouraged many people to collect the same thing, creating the notion of key dates amongst coins that are not particularly rare.
But nowadays, do people really care what coins are being promoted? We already have a registry set where people can compete for the highest certified grades on moderns. We can instantly see population reports. We can get price records easily as well. What more promotion is needed? When I hear coins advertised as being "conditionally rare" or "sleepers", it just sounds like advertising. Nowadays, collectors are much less structured in their set building, and we usually recommend to young collectors to buy nice coins that they like, rather than work within some rigid set parameters. If a coin is supposed to be scarce, I can pretty easily verify that. I guess the younger generations like to follow their influencers, but most collectors generally aren't the types that blindly follow the crowds, collecting has never been a particularly popular thing among 'cool kids', and I've long been of the belief that coin collectors are generally more intelligent and worldly than the average bear. So I'm not sure what promotion accomplishes.
By the way, I know nothing of the grade rarity of 1992-P nickels. When I looked up the issue, it appears that they produced 400 million of them. Obviously they aren't all still around, and most are not uncirculated, but I feel like a promoter would have a hard time selling me as this being a particularly rare coin or good investment. But I also think that chasing top-pop Morgans is kind of silly too, so maybe I'm just the wrong audience.
The more I think about this the better it sounds. Old time collectors wouldn't have to see the values for moderns if the Redbook were split. Prices could be listed in grades that collectors actually seek them; "poptops", "Gems", "MS-64", and "chBU". Might as well list MS-60 price as well. This would open up the door to list the older circulating issues in VF and XF as well since these do attract interest on eBay.
More accurate pricing would be a huge shot in the arm for the modern markets. Selling would be far easier and buying wouldn't require years of experience.
One exception, IMO the 2003 remake of Vegas with James Caan was better than the original. I mean no disrespect to Dan Tanna (Robert Urich). The 1978-81 Vegas did have a trump card in Phyllis Davis (Beatrice).
Other than the state quarters that were novel and educational to an extent, most new issues are purely political and propaganda biased.
Coinage is always political. The use of the image of Liberty has been used to communicate political ideas since it was used by the Romans on coinage during the Republic. The assassins of Julius Caesar issued coins with Libertas on them, which was clearly using coinage for propaganda purposes. (The word propaganda is often misused and people believe it has an automatic negative connotation…it really means using information to try and get a political point across, nothing more, nothing less). Modern coinage doesn’t deviate from that norm. It’s just that some people disagree with its message, which is understandable because that’s always been the case.
Actually I was just going to ask you @cladking about the State Quarter program and what effects it might have. Last summer I took my wife on a trip to junk stores and to my surprise we encountered more than a dozen kids under the age of 18; all of them looking for specific State quarters. They all had what to me looked like detailed lists of coins had/wanted. I have no idea what kind of money was being paid or if condition played a role but it was a shock to see young people actively pursuing ANY kind of coins. James
Didn't they try that with the Mint's "22016 Gold Coin Collection"? There was not a huge demand as most thought it would be.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Let’s try this again. The real problem with moderns is (most) the best ones have already been snagged.
So for every non modern collector here on the forum there’s prolly 1,000 more who are players, just not on the forum.
Could’t afford ‘em. I would have inhaled them in silver, even clad; they are my favorite designs.
Right. For the amount of gold you were actually purchasing that was a heck of a markup.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Put them on circulating coins, not precious metals.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I may be missing the point here if so sue me. If I could still find mint state Walkers in circ. then I would but I can't so I don't.
This one came from the same seven sets as the quarters and from the bay. Poor pictures so I received very little resistance in the auction which was nice. However, the pics did give away the one thing, luster which was enough to gamble on the preservation. And there were several more FBs and 66s.
There is a lot of evidence that coin collecting is becoming extremely popular again. This started in1999 With countless millions of baby boomers returning to the hobby and many more millions of children and young people. Millions more have started since 1999. Many of these collectors are still maturing and becoming more sophisticated.
I'm seeing the same thing when I'm out and about and even at home there are sometimes competing coin shows on TV. I'm seeing more coin references in popular culture. Coins are simply on peoples' minds and they weren't between 1965 and 1999 so they weren't saved.
‘A few individual collectors compete to have the finest sets but the nearly equally scarce and desirable coins just a couple grades lower have no demand.”
There is NOTHING “nearly equal” between a 1970-D 50C MS67 and one in MS65. Or, a 1969-P or 1971-P 25C in MS67 and one in MS65. Etc, etc.
And, there is not even a “problem” with the very healthy modern coin market. I was just looking at a cover page article in the Numismatist magazine on modern proofs written about 7 years ago where myself and Rick Tomaska were the (2) quoted sources for the piece. I was amazed at how the market has so positively progressed over those 7 years and the strength of the many prized coins quoted by the 2 sources (check it out).
To paraphrase Paul Simon in his 1975 “classic” hit song, dedicated to my dear friend CK …
"The problem is all inside your head," he said to me
"The answer is easy if you take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free
There must be fifty ways to love your moderns
He said, "It's really not my habit to intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself at the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways to love your moderns"
Fifty ways to love your moderns!!
Cheers!
Wondercoin
Shoot, I could not pay for it at melt value, much less market price.
Let's apply Occam's razor. Any coin is worth what someone will pay for it. It is just that simple. The reasons it is worth the price; is different, for each and every one of us. I tend to be willing to over pay, for anything (Car or Coin) minted in 1967, or 1986. Anything else, value hawk!
There's no "wrong way" to love your coins and moderns can be the best of all.
I simply can't understand the almost universal lack of love for nice attractive chBU and MS_64 examples. Nor do I understand how something like an MS-64 '69 quarter garners so little attention.
Which brings us to another problem with moderns; The vast majority of collectors concentrate on coins that don't need certification. This leaves them wondering if the nice chBU they see on eBay under market for only $80 might not come back as a lower grade coin if it ever is sent in. This makes them squeamish to bid on a nice Gem tough date.
Low grade and high grade moderns do well. But I could never find many of those high grades and never liked the low end coins. I agree moderns are a very healthy market and getting more attention all the time.
There's no simple solution to these problems but some can be addressed. The definition of "BU roll" can be standardized so a '92-P nickel roll that sells for $200 doesn't Greysheet for $12.50
Price guides should specify which coins actually need grading for the listed wholesale price. Obviously a 1979-D cent in MS-60 doesn't need certification to bring 10c. But by the same token a nice 1982 chBU roll that sells on eBay for $4000 without the need for grading isn't the same roll that lists for $235.
Many people seem to believe that a $2 or $20 modern has no value at all until it is certified. Then they are told to buy the coin and not the holder.
The modern market will never arise until collectors feel safe to collect.
This exists with older coins too, when it comes to sell, you get burned with raw coins unless its a set or bullion or junk.
Double post
This!
No one should spend $80 on an uncertified condition rarity modern unless they are willing to get buried in it. There's an old saying in the coin world, with variations, that says "a coin goes up a grade when you're selling it and down a grade when you're buying it. " Big difference in price between a 66 1969 Washington and a 68. Big risk paying 68 money for a coin that's a 67 or 66.
And the same is true of classic coins with a spread between grades. You can buy/sell raw AU/Unc Morgans easily. But you better be damn sure before you pay 66 money for a raw coin.
Even if you're sure, you need to find a buyer later who is equally sure.
Asides from the true lack of rarity, except for the highest grades, my biggest complaint about moderns is the lack of depth in the coins; Washingtons in the 70's compared to now are like a bowl versus a plate in depth. I like the detail, but they are just too flat, IMHO. I do like the newer designs, but think the whole lot of them is due for an overhaul.
The real problem with moderns is the designs have been dreadful. Washington Quarters bland, (good for the parking meter Lol). Roosevelt dimes not exciting, Franklin Halves Meh so so, as well as Jefferson’s. Exception I think are the Ike’s which are fairly attractive with a matte finish in 40% silver for collectors.
The coin collecting boom died when the amazing modern designs of the Mercury Dime, WLH dollar, SLQ, Saint Gaudens and Lincoln Wheaties ceased. Only to be replaced by these imposters. Sad but true.
I wonder what would happen to collecting coins of the current design if all of the current designs were retired and replaced with something different (i.e. get rid of the cent and nickel, add new $1.00, $2.00 and $5.00 coins, get rid of $1, $2 and $5 bills, and have new designs for the dime, quarter, half dollar, dollar, two dollar and five dollar coins).
I would expect if the above happened some type of change (for better or for worse) would take place within the hobby. The persons collecting the newly retired coins would become more interested in collecting them (at least for a short period of time as market makers/promoters would act to stimulate interest in the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of collecting these retired coins, before they are gone forever).
Agreed... And in my experience at least, many if not most who insist clad moderns are the next big thing would rather "make" said high grade/top grade examples rather than buy them. That doesn't bode well for a long term broad based sustainable market imo, much less sustainable value.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Makes sense as the current designs haven’t changed substantially in 50 or more years
>
Sigh.
Right now there are BU rolls of moderns for sale at prices that are many multiples of Greysheet. This isn't so much to say that Greysheet prices don't mean anything with moderns but obviously there is a lot more going on than ANY of the price guides suggest. As I've said many times the source of the anomalies is always the exact same thing; virtually no supply running up against virtually no demand. The guides can list a coin as being worth only 25c but this never means you can run out and buy one for a quarter because the coins don't exist. They almost all went into circulation but this has been invisible all these years because nobody wanted any anyway.
Greysheet, for instance, lists a 1976 type I Ike at $3 in MS-63 but the wholesale price on this coin is over $4. Wholesale is $80 per roll of 20. It's not like you can go to the nearest coin shop and stock up on this super common coin. Indeed, there are very few sources and most will send you an MS-60 at substantially higher prices than $4. Some will just go out and buy a 1975 mint set but there are several problems with this like the simple fact tha5t most of these are long gone. When you find a survivor there are STILL two huge problems; first the Philly Ike will be tarnished 95% of the time and second you have to plan on buying a few sets because MS-60 and MS-62 are much more common than nice MS-63's even if you find original unsearched sets. It's not like there are dozens of suppliers for this coin, OR ANY OTHER MODERN, because there is no market. If a mass market were to actually arise there wouldn't be enough of these coins readily available to even fill up the pipeline. These are not like any other $4 coin. A $4 indian cent is exceedingly common. A $4 modern in almost every case is far tougher.
I see your Double post and raise you a Triple post
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
That's a matter of opinion. Not that I necessarily disagree but I'm not sure 100 years ago they didn't think those coins were awful also. The current designs are a little long in the tooth though.
The problem with coin designs is always what do you put on the coin? Everything's been done... people, presidents, liberty symbols, animals, parks, states, presidents, inventions, buildings, sports. I'm not sure what's left. Food?
I call your set and raise with 4 of a kind.
I’m not ballsy enough (yet) to sell a raw coin and I mean a nice raw modern on the bay. One that would grade 67 like a Kennedy or Ike.
However, all of the Raw moderns I see on the bay look like crap, problem coins or its a stock photo. And I’m not into selling BU coins for $15 so let me ask a question, is it unethical to end an auction late in the game if I feel like the money isn’t going to get there?
Damn son, Just remember the once in a lifetime full eclipse of the sun happens right over my house in Cleveland - you are welcome - and anybody else - just PM me - I'm cereal
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
😁
A little bit.
‘’virtually no supply running up against virtually no demand.’’
Sounds like a very efficient market to me. Who could want anything better than that!
Wondercoin
Meaning? It’s not very nice but I wouldn’t suffer a bad review over it?
Or it’s not very nice and she’s cancelling the prom date and/or any future dates?
Meaning you would likely get a bad review over it, but it's not illegal.
Have you not seen numerous threads over "lost items" that forum members feel are due to the sale price being too low?
If you are unwilling to sell it for less than $50, then either start it at $50 or put a reserve on it. To start it at $1 and let people get invested in winning it just to pull the rug out from under them is a lousy way to treat people. You're essentially lying to them about the nature of the sale.
You're right and thanks for putting it into perspective. I would hate for that to happen to me. I'll just stick to selling graded to prevent any love loss for either party @jmlanzaf
No modern replacement for Phyllis Diller either.. even with a coveted Beastie Boys drop.
Promote that.
$1 $2 and $5 coins will never achieve wide use in the US because no one wants them. $1 bills are lasting longer than ever and a 2019 GAO report now states it would cost more to replace the $1 bill with a $1 coin, I think COVID has accelerated that.
I agree that it's crappy behavior but I had to do it once because of a substantial error in the listing. Ebay assessed a penalty, which I guess is fair.