Cameo? Prooflike? The camera doesn't lie!
Over the years I've accumulated some CAC coins that appear to be Cameo or Prooflike. They have mirror surfaces. Finally, I got up the courage to submit them to CACG and asked whether the other two grading services had missed the designations. Well, here are the results. The first picture shows what a true Cameo should look like.
Cameo
Not Cameo - notice the dark fields are not consistent
Not Prooflike - there is no dark field!
Oh, Well.
Comments
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Seeing as how the vast majority of business strike Barber coins aren’t prooflike, it’s not at all surprising that the third coin failed to garner the “Prooflike” designation.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@MFeld said:
Seeing as how the vast majority of business strike Barber coins aren’t prooflike, it’s not at all surprising that the third coin failed to garner the “Prooflike” designation.I understand; but, in hand, the coin does have mirror like surfaces. Interestingly, I showed JA at FUN some gold commemoratives that also had mirror like surfaces and he said, "Yea, that's the way they come." Apparently, the issue is the fields are not consistent - so the proper term would be semi-prooflike which is not an acceptable term.
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@DisneyFan said:
@MFeld said:
Seeing as how the vast majority of business strike Barber coins aren’t prooflike, it’s not at all surprising that the third coin failed to garner the “Prooflike” designation.I understand; but, in hand, the coin does have mirror like surfaces. Interestingly, I showed JA at FUN some gold commemoratives that also had mirror like surfaces and he said, "Yea, that's the way they come." Apparently, the issue is the fields are not consistent - so the proper term would be semi-prooflike which is not an acceptable term.
Sometimes, coins do exhibit consistent/uniform fields which are somewhat/mildly reflective, but which fall short of being “prooflike”. And I occasionally use the term “semi-prooflike” in coin descriptions, as I believe it has its proper place.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@MFeld said:
@DisneyFan said:
@MFeld said:
Seeing as how the vast majority of business strike Barber coins aren’t prooflike, it’s not at all surprising that the third coin failed to garner the “Prooflike” designation.I understand; but, in hand, the coin does have mirror like surfaces. Interestingly, I showed JA at FUN some gold commemoratives that also had mirror like surfaces and he said, "Yea, that's the way they come." Apparently, the issue is the fields are not consistent - so the proper term would be semi-prooflike which is not an acceptable term.
Sometimes, coins do exhibit consistent/uniform fields which are somewhat/mildly reflective, but which fall short of being “prooflike”. And I occasionally use the term “semi-prooflike” in coin descriptions, as I believe it has its proper place.
THANK YOU for the clarification.
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The first I ever heard of PL coins (late 60's early 70's) was when I saw Al Johnbriar (RIP) going through Joe Gallo's (RIP) rolls of Morgan's and paying a little more for the PL coins. PL and Semi-PL were used for many years. Then, the big grading companies added DMPL and Semi-PL was dropped. At least one TPGS brought back the Semi-PL designation although I've been told that a Semi-PL does not bring more value to a coin. It would be educational for Silver dollar experts to post the timeline for all these designations. I'm going to start a discussion!
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Yes in fact the camera can and does lie, especially when it comes to cameo’s.
Just keeping it straight.The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.1 -
I disagree with the title of the post: cameras lie more regarding frosty devices than with any other feature a coin may have.
JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research1 -
@crazyhounddog said:
Yes in fact the camera can and does lie, especially when it comes to cameo’s.
Just keeping it straight.Can you post examples?
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This brings up something I have thought about in the past. If you have a coin you think could be a candidate for the "proof like" designation, do you have to ask PCGS to consider grading it as such or is that part of the grading process?
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@Saam said:
This brings up something I have thought about in the past. If you have a coin you think could be a candidate for the "proof like" designation, do you have to ask PCGS to consider grading it as such or is that part of the grading process?From what I am learning from the pictures in my initial post, it is already part of the process.
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@DisneyFan said:
@crazyhounddog said:
Yes in fact the camera can and does lie, especially when it comes to cameo’s.
Just keeping it straight.Can you post examples?
Does this work for you? Let me know. Maybe it is a cameo.
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.0 -
@crazyhounddog said:
@DisneyFan said:
@crazyhounddog said:
Yes in fact the camera can and does lie, especially when it comes to cameo’s.
Just keeping it straight.Can you post examples?
Does this work for you? Let me know. Maybe it is a cameo.
I'm not a grader and would rely on others. While it does appear to be a cameo, I'm also seeing a strong haze on both sides.
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Unfortunately no. CAMs generally have at least some frost on the sun, lower flag, and reverse left side eagle's wing.
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@FlyingAl said:
@crazyhounddogUnfortunately no. CAMs generally have at least some frost on the sun, lower flag, and reverse left side eagle's wing.
And I was wondering, "Where is FlyingAl when you need him?"
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@DisneyFan said:
@crazyhounddog said:
@DisneyFan said:
@crazyhounddog said:
Yes in fact the camera can and does lie, especially when it comes to cameo’s.
Just keeping it straight.Can you post examples?
Does this work for you? Let me know. Maybe it is a cameo.
I'm not a grader and would rely on others. While it does appear to be a cameo, I'm also seeing a strong haze on both sides.
I posted this coin to show a camera can lie.
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.0 -
I should have been more clear in my original statement.
I was referring to the TVs from PCGS and CACG. To me they clearly showed whether a coin was a cameo or prooflike. I was hoping to help those who ask themselves whether their coin is a cameo or proof like; but, not labelled as such. I was not referring to photos (especially those that have been "tricked up") that may have been posted on-line. I know I cannot grade a coin based on a picture. I can only evaluate whether I like a coin based on the labelled grade and the obverse and reverse pictures.
In the case of the 1942 Walker proof. according to @FlyingAl, the coins is not a cameo and thus, it appears the camera did not lie.
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