@messydesk said:
It would be interesting to see if there's a tendency for specific coins or types to be over- or undergraded more than others. This information could actually be used as feedback into the photography so that attention could be put toward making photos of these types more optimal, meaning both consignor and buyer saying selling price was fair.
We're actually going to eliminate some coins from the game based on a large % of really incorrect answers. So if 95% of people guess more than 3 points from the grade, that might be eliminated from the pool (and everyone that guessed will be adjusted accordingly). Team is working on the exact criteria for this.
So are these all coins that are yet to be listed for sale? Do you think this game will be usable to flag coins scheduled for auction for photos that might lead to an unhappy buyer or seller?
100 games in and the score took a dip for a few games when I really screwed one up but it's higher than it was at 70 games. Gotta come back down sooner or later, but that's enough for this evening.
Sitting on top by a comfortable margin. Should change my username there to match here though.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@DelawareDoons said:
100 games in and the score took a dip for a few games when I really screwed one up but it's higher than it was at 70 games. Gotta come back down sooner or later, but that's enough for this evening.
Sitting on top by a comfortable margin. Should change my username there to match here though.
yes, if you want to be found by people use a name that people know. I can change it for you. Also use the discover posts drop down under to post to see more of what is going on.
@DelawareDoons said:
100 games in and the score took a dip for a few games when I really screwed one up but it's higher than it was at 70 games. Gotta come back down sooner or later, but that's enough for this evening.
Sitting on top by a comfortable margin. Should change my username there to match here though.
Of course, because this is an official benchmark of how cool and smart you are. Thanks for letting us all know.
‘’An educational game designed for numismatists to compete and sharpen their grading skills. Exclusively PCGS-graded coins with GreatPhotos.’’
By its own terms, this “game” will likely attract only a very small minority of well-known dealers. These dealers don’t have time to “sharpen their grading skills” especially through what they believe to be potentially unreliable pics. They believe they are already sharp as a knife -yes? I spoke to one super well known and respected dealer on these boards - answer: no time in my day for games like that.
Second, when PCGS held it first grading event with decent prize money ($20,000 to the winning collector and dealer), many other dealers didn’t even participate because of the “risk-reward” ratio. Namely- If the dealer does well-it is expected of him/her. If the dealer does lousy, it’s a total embarrassment- yes?
If I were Ian - I would make it a real game with fabulous prize money to the winners! For example, when there are 10,000 fresh unseen pics that haven’t been released yet - use them for the “big game”! $50,000 cash to the winner of the dealer competition and $50,000 cash to the winner of the collector competition. Best grading dealer and collector winners take all (or much smaller prizes to 2nd to 5th place). Cheaper than producing a calendar and massive exposure as a result of the event. I’d be there and playing to win to be sure! No excuses from any dealers that it isn’t worth their time - the cash and exposure of winning would be HUGE! The winner of the dealer and collector divisions could be offered a fabulous high priced grading contract from one of the grading companies as well; no doubt one of the “big 3” would be happy to sponsor this event and put up some of the cash prize money (especially if the winner(s) passed on the contract).
Just my 2 cents to make my collect’s grading game a real GAME CHANGER.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
This is awesome @ianrussell and team! My experience so far has been a nice assortment of all types, grades and denominations. I've really been having a lot of fun with this, despite being consistently humbled on my grading skills.
Strange but true. I have gotten 5 out of around 40 coins exactly right. All 5 are gold coins.
Don't collect gold. Seen maybe 2 actual gold coins in my life. Go figure. James
@wondercoin said:
‘’An educational game designed for numismatists to compete and sharpen their grading skills. Exclusively PCGS-graded coins with GreatPhotos.’’
...
If I were Ian - I would make it a real game with fabulous prize money to the winners! For example, when there are 10,000 fresh unseen pics that haven’t been released yet - use them for the “big game”! $50,000 cash to the winner of the dealer competition and $50,000 cash to the winner of the collector competition.
I see no need for cash prizes. Someone who is able to place at or near the top after that many coins should be able to leverage that skill for a pretty good windfall. I'd rather see money spent on improving things that a larger audience wants to see improved.
@Ownerofawheatiehorde said:
An issue I came across is that copper us philippine coins do not have the option for BN, RB, and RD, so you always get at least two points deducted.
We had a few issues with U.S. Philippines, these coins have now been removed. Any coins that have been removed will be erased from your grading history.
@Ownerofawheatiehorde said:
An issue I came across is that copper us philippine coins do not have the option for BN, RB, and RD, so you always get at least two points deducted.
We had a few issues with U.S. Philippines, these coins have now been removed. Any coins that have been removed will be erased from your grading history.
I do not collect them and was pleasantly surprised to guess fairly well on a couple of them. It was certainly a surprise to see them but I didn’t mind.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
BigNubNumismatics is by far the real leader so far, with that amount of coins he/she has graded. In all reality, the scoring should be exact;y the same for guessing within 1 grade of the actual. Grading changes all the time over the years. Also, proofs should be eliminated, in my opinion, because it is very difficult to see some of those mirrors in photos. This would also cover the plus grades, which are impossible from a photo.
PS, I wonder how many coins BigNub was within one grade? Which is getting it exactly right for reasons stated above. Ian, change the score to the same within one grade up or down. Even the pros are generally off by one grade from each other, with the coin in hand, and doing this for a living, I have a friend at a major company who would tell me what all 3 graders gave my coins, and they were many times different.
@gumby1234 said: @keyman64 I think the gold coins are killing me because so many are MS when they should be AU.
I know little to nothing about gold but I do know it is a softer metal and because of this it seems to be graded easier than silver. I've had a little luck in the grading game with gold, oddly enough.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
PL/DMPL are pretty hard to guess and basing it off how they are photographed doesn’t help much.
Proofs, especially non cam franklins, are a shot in the dark. I had 3 57 franklins that look identical to this and had ranges of 66 to 68.
Also quite a lot of imperfect slabs that you can see scuffs masking parts of the coins, although I think that’s more of an aesthetic problem than actually preventing from grading.
Pro tip is to treat it like a game and not actually grading. There’s lots of coins from GC that end up in higher holders. I don’t agree with many of the grades I put down that are correct, but I’m aiming to be correct.
Also, don’t take much time on coins. Odds are if you don’t have an idea within right away you don’t know the coins well enough to grade in the first place. Might as well save time and get it over with.
@FredS said:
PS, I wonder how many coins BigNub was within one grade? Which is getting it exactly right for reasons stated above. Ian, change the score to the same within one grade up or down. Even the pros are generally off by one grade from each other, with the coin in hand, and doing this for a living, I have a friend at a major company who would tell me what all 3 graders gave my coins, and they were many times different.
A one point off guess results in 12 points.
Therefore, a 60% average means you are grading within one point of the actual grade on average.
A the top left of the GTG page is the discuss button, be sure to post all these questions on there also to keep the discussion going. It will take you to the GTG group.
@FredS said:
PS, I wonder how many coins BigNub was within one grade? Which is getting it exactly right for reasons stated above. Ian, change the score to the same within one grade up or down. Even the pros are generally off by one grade from each other, with the coin in hand, and doing this for a living, I have a friend at a major company who would tell me what all 3 graders gave my coins, and they were many times different.
A one point off guess results in 12 points.
Therefore, a 60% average means you are grading within one point of the actual grade on average.
Not quite true, since prefixes and suffixes give an extra 2 points each.
@FredS said:
PS, I wonder how many coins BigNub was within one grade? Which is getting it exactly right for reasons stated above. Ian, change the score to the same within one grade up or down. Even the pros are generally off by one grade from each other, with the coin in hand, and doing this for a living, I have a friend at a major company who would tell me what all 3 graders gave my coins, and they were many times different.
A one point off guess results in 12 points.
Therefore, a 60% average means you are grading within one point of the actual grade on average.
Not quite true, since prefixes and suffixes give an extra 2 points each.
Well after my first 50 guesses, I rank 210 with a 47.2%. Lol The gold always gets me. I can't grade them for nothing. Some coins look a little overgraded to me. Lol
@FredS said:
PS, I wonder how many coins BigNub was within one grade? Which is getting it exactly right for reasons stated above. Ian, change the score to the same within one grade up or down. Even the pros are generally off by one grade from each other, with the coin in hand, and doing this for a living, I have a friend at a major company who would tell me what all 3 graders gave my coins, and they were many times different.
A one point off guess results in 12 points.
Therefore, a 60% average means you are grading within one point of the actual grade on average.
Not quite true, since prefixes and suffixes give an extra 2 points each.
Only where applicable, which includes circulated copper, so don't forget to call that VG large cent brown or you lose the 2 points.
If some coins seem over or under graded, keep in mind the pros are getting super high percentages. balancing the pluses and minuses of a coin is an art fully laid out in the PCGS Coin Grading book pulished like 25 years ago.
@Dropdaflag said:
Site is slow this evening. Traffic must be pickin up over there.
Around this time yesterday, we had ~800 sets being created using the "Auto Sets" feature on MyCollect, it bogged down our servers for a bit, but all should be good now.
@gumby1234 said: @DeplorableDan If you think thats not a 63 look at the Morgan pic I posted above. Its in a 63 holder and clearly nowhere near mint state.
I've learned that with this game I need to often bump my actual guess up a point or two, especially with all these toned coins where you cant see the luster in the photo. That finally clicked for me that i needed to stop being too conservative, and since then my ranking has been going up a lot.
@DeplorableDan Ive tried that with the gold and every time i do then its an AU coin like i thought. If i didn't have so many spot on guesses on a lot of coins I would have a horrible percentage due mostly to gold coins, but also coins like that Morgan which is clearly no better than an XF.
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Would be interesting if stats showed how many coins you undergrade vs over grade.
And by how much. I may need to start keeping better track.
My Ebay Store
Oh goody, thanks. Not my series and not something I knew. So much to learn.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
So are these all coins that are yet to be listed for sale? Do you think this game will be usable to flag coins scheduled for auction for photos that might lead to an unhappy buyer or seller?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
100 games in and the score took a dip for a few games when I really screwed one up but it's higher than it was at 70 games. Gotta come back down sooner or later, but that's enough for this evening.
Sitting on top by a comfortable margin. Should change my username there to match here though.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
yes, if you want to be found by people use a name that people know. I can change it for you. Also use the discover posts drop down under to post to see more of what is going on.
I disagree. Lots of coins are AU in the game and most collectors send in what they think are Uncirculated coins. Always look at the fields. Always!
Of course, because this is an official benchmark of how cool and smart you are. Thanks for letting us all know.
‘’An educational game designed for numismatists to compete and sharpen their grading skills. Exclusively PCGS-graded coins with GreatPhotos.’’
By its own terms, this “game” will likely attract only a very small minority of well-known dealers. These dealers don’t have time to “sharpen their grading skills” especially through what they believe to be potentially unreliable pics. They believe they are already sharp as a knife -yes? I spoke to one super well known and respected dealer on these boards - answer: no time in my day for games like that.
Second, when PCGS held it first grading event with decent prize money ($20,000 to the winning collector and dealer), many other dealers didn’t even participate because of the “risk-reward” ratio. Namely- If the dealer does well-it is expected of him/her. If the dealer does lousy, it’s a total embarrassment- yes?
If I were Ian - I would make it a real game with fabulous prize money to the winners! For example, when there are 10,000 fresh unseen pics that haven’t been released yet - use them for the “big game”! $50,000 cash to the winner of the dealer competition and $50,000 cash to the winner of the collector competition. Best grading dealer and collector winners take all (or much smaller prizes to 2nd to 5th place). Cheaper than producing a calendar and massive exposure as a result of the event. I’d be there and playing to win to be sure! No excuses from any dealers that it isn’t worth their time - the cash and exposure of winning would be HUGE! The winner of the dealer and collector divisions could be offered a fabulous high priced grading contract from one of the grading companies as well; no doubt one of the “big 3” would be happy to sponsor this event and put up some of the cash prize money (especially if the winner(s) passed on the contract).
Just my 2 cents to make my collect’s grading game a real GAME CHANGER.
Wondercoin.
This is awesome @ianrussell and team! My experience so far has been a nice assortment of all types, grades and denominations. I've really been having a lot of fun with this, despite being consistently humbled on my grading skills.
An issue I came across is that copper us philippine coins do not have the option for BN, RB, and RD, so you always get at least two points deducted.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
Strange but true. I have gotten 5 out of around 40 coins exactly right. All 5 are gold coins.
Don't collect gold. Seen maybe 2 actual gold coins in my life. Go figure. James
I see no need for cash prizes. Someone who is able to place at or near the top after that many coins should be able to leverage that skill for a pretty good windfall. I'd rather see money spent on improving things that a larger audience wants to see improved.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
We had a few issues with U.S. Philippines, these coins have now been removed. Any coins that have been removed will be erased from your grading history.
GreatCollections / MyCollect
@ianrussell love the site, and the new game. Keep up the innovation Buddy, you are doing some great stuff for the hobby.
I do not collect them and was pleasantly surprised to guess fairly well on a couple of them. It was certainly a surprise to see them but I didn’t mind.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I can understand why CACG has graded a lot of crossover coins AU now.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Site is slow this evening. Traffic must be pickin up over there.
https://www.smallcopperguy.com
Coins like this are killing me. I guessed 58, but its a MS64.???
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
And why is this not FB?
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
BigNubNumismatics is by far the real leader so far, with that amount of coins he/she has graded. In all reality, the scoring should be exact;y the same for guessing within 1 grade of the actual. Grading changes all the time over the years. Also, proofs should be eliminated, in my opinion, because it is very difficult to see some of those mirrors in photos. This would also cover the plus grades, which are impossible from a photo.
PS, I wonder how many coins BigNub was within one grade? Which is getting it exactly right for reasons stated above. Ian, change the score to the same within one grade up or down. Even the pros are generally off by one grade from each other, with the coin in hand, and doing this for a living, I have a friend at a major company who would tell me what all 3 graders gave my coins, and they were many times different.
@gumby1234
I was impacted the same on both. Lol
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
@keyman64 I think the gold coins are killing me because so many are MS when they should be AU.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
I know little to nothing about gold but I do know it is a softer metal and because of this it seems to be graded easier than silver. I've had a little luck in the grading game with gold, oddly enough.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
PL/DMPL are pretty hard to guess and basing it off how they are photographed doesn’t help much.
Proofs, especially non cam franklins, are a shot in the dark. I had 3 57 franklins that look identical to this and had ranges of 66 to 68.
Also quite a lot of imperfect slabs that you can see scuffs masking parts of the coins, although I think that’s more of an aesthetic problem than actually preventing from grading.
Pro tip is to treat it like a game and not actually grading. There’s lots of coins from GC that end up in higher holders. I don’t agree with many of the grades I put down that are correct, but I’m aiming to be correct.
Also, don’t take much time on coins. Odds are if you don’t have an idea within right away you don’t know the coins well enough to grade in the first place. Might as well save time and get it over with.
Someone expl
How did this chewed up nickel got into a 65 holder?
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
A one point off guess results in 12 points.
Therefore, a 60% average means you are grading within one point of the actual grade on average.
Coin Photographer.
A the top left of the GTG page is the discuss button, be sure to post all these questions on there also to keep the discussion going. It will take you to the GTG group.
Most of what you are seeing is planchet roughness instead of actual marks.
I
Not quite true, since prefixes and suffixes give an extra 2 points each.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
This game is really fun, I love it! It's GTG with instant gratification. I seem to struggle most with weakly struck coins, and circulated coins.
Fair enough.
Coin Photographer.
I could understand planchet marks on a coin from 1796, but in 1963?
I am finding myself saying BS loudly to a number of the coins when I see the unexpectedly high grades.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
Not adjustment marks, nickel is too hard to strike completely up economically, even proofs have some incomplete portions.
Look at Ikes, 21 Morgys, BTWs for others prone to the same.
Will do. I am having fun with it. Just happy I am getting most of the coins from the series I focus on correct.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
Well after my first 50 guesses, I rank 210 with a 47.2%. Lol The gold always gets me. I can't grade them for nothing. Some coins look a little overgraded to me. Lol
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Only where applicable, which includes circulated copper, so don't forget to call that VG large cent brown or you lose the 2 points.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Weak strike leaving chatter from not fully striking the planchet? so what you call chewed up may be pre strike and not post strike.
If some coins seem over or under graded, keep in mind the pros are getting super high percentages. balancing the pluses and minuses of a coin is an art fully laid out in the PCGS Coin Grading book pulished like 25 years ago.
Hey @ianrussell, how about displaying what the average guessed grade was?
Some of the grades amaze me. Like this cent graded MS65???
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
GTG on this one.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
This is a proof coin.
GreatCollections / MyCollect
Around this time yesterday, we had ~800 sets being created using the "Auto Sets" feature on MyCollect, it bogged down our servers for a bit, but all should be good now.
GreatCollections / MyCollect
Yep. The AU 63 range is brutal for me on gold and caped bust halves.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
just in case anyone else is as computer inept as me. If you click on the picture you get a much bigger photo to guess by. James
This is not ms63 idc what the holder says.
Founder- Peak Rarities
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@DeplorableDan If you think thats not a 63 look at the Morgan pic I posted above. Its in a 63 holder and clearly nowhere near mint state.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
I've learned that with this game I need to often bump my actual guess up a point or two, especially with all these toned coins where you cant see the luster in the photo. That finally clicked for me that i needed to stop being too conservative, and since then my ranking has been going up a lot.
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@DeplorableDan Ive tried that with the gold and every time i do then its an AU coin like i thought. If i didn't have so many spot on guesses on a lot of coins I would have a horrible percentage due mostly to gold coins, but also coins like that Morgan which is clearly no better than an XF.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM