Cool Counterfeit With Corresponding Letter

MWallace · December 7, 2023 11:21AM

Steve_in_Tampa · December 7, 2023 12:33PM

Fantastic !
That’s a first for me. I had know idea people were still using Obsolete notes as late as 1912. I would have thought their era was long over by then. Thanks for sharing @MWallace .

SaorAlba · December 7, 2023 1:38PM

@Steve_in_Tampa said:
Fantastic !
That’s a first for me. I had know idea people were still using Obsolete notes as late as 1912. I would have thought their era was long over by then. Thanks for sharing @MWallace .

I'd bet that someone found it in 1912 and sent it to the bank for redemption.

pursuitofliberty · December 7, 2023 4:47PM

I'm so glad you reached out to PMG and had these put together Mike! What a great piece of history and a perfect way to keep them together.

You really should share the backstory on this too.

element159 · December 7, 2023 6:48PM

I'd like to get a national from that bank to go with the obsolete!

OAKSTAR · December 7, 2023 7:32PM

Really glad PMG accepted your submission without a problem. 👍

MWallace · December 7, 2023 7:41PM

@OAKSTAR said:
Really glad PMG accepted your submission without a problem. 👍

PMG has been great and very accommodating to my request for items such as this. Kudos to them.

MWallace · December 7, 2023 9:06PM

@pursuitofliberty said:
I'm so glad you reached out to PMG and had these put together Mike! What a great piece of history and a perfect way to keep them together.

You really should share the backstory on this too.

About 2 years ago I bought the already graded counterfeit note. It came with the letter but the letter was loose. After recently having PMG holder the Label Set pictured below, I got the idea to get the letter holdered with the counterfeit note for posterity reasons. My motive was to have them holdered together so that they could never be inadvertently separated. I contacted PMG before shipping to them to see if they'd agree to holder them together. They immediately said "yes" and as they say, the rest is history. I am so pleased to have the note and letter holdered together. What a great piece of numismatic memorabilia.

sellitstore · December 9, 2023 4:03PM

Stephen Nagy was a well known numismatist in 1912 when he attempted to redeem this note. It was worth perhaps 50 cents to a collector back then and was a tough sell at that. Although not in widespread circulation since the 1860s, obsoletes were still being redeemed by their national bank successors, so it was well worth it to try to redeem it. The national bank correctly identified it as a contemporary counterfeit.

Thanks for posting this interesting pair.

MWallace · December 9, 2023 6:46PM

@sellitstore said:
Stephen Nagy was a well known numismatist in 1912 when he attempted to redeem this note. It was worth perhaps 50 cents to a collector back then and was a tough sell at that. Although not in widespread circulation since the 1860s, obsoletes were still being redeemed by their national bank successors, so it was well worth it to try to redeem it. The national bank correctly identified it as a contemporary counterfeit.

Thanks for posting this interesting pair.

Wow! Thank you so much for the info. I will print it and keep it with the note.

MWallace · December 9, 2023 6:52PM

@sellitstore
I googled "stephen nagy numismatist". Got quite a few hits. Lots to read. Thanks again.

pursuitofliberty · December 9, 2023 7:36PM

God I love this place! Thanks @sellitstore

tomtomtomtom · December 10, 2023 5:15AM

One of my favorite fractionals....a receipt from the treasury for a deposit and a returned counterfeit Lincoln fractional deducted from the total.

MWallace · December 10, 2023 7:02AM

@tomtomtomtom said:
One of my favorite fractionals....a receipt from the treasury for a deposit and a returned counterfeit Lincoln fractional deducted from the total.

Nice!! They would look great together in a PMG holder.

JBK · December 12, 2023 3:00AM

@sellitstore said:
Stephen Nagy was a well known numismatist in 1912 when he attempted to redeem this note. It was worth perhaps 50 cents to a collector back then and was a tough sell at that. Although not in widespread circulation since the 1860s, obsoletes were still being redeemed by their national bank successors, so it was well worth it to try to redeem it. The national bank correctly identified it as a contemporary counterfeit.

Thanks for posting this interesting pair.

Very interesting background. Were they redeeming at full value? Seems like a worthy project for a knowledgeable numismatist of that era.

As I started reading your comments I thought you were going to tell us that Nagy undertook this exercise in order to create a bit of numismatic ephemera. Many years ago that was my intention when I sent a WWII Japanese invasion note to the Japanese Embassy in Washington to see if they'd redeem it. Of course they did not, but the reply was interesting. (I've still got it somewhere).

sellitstore · December 12, 2023 7:24AM

Generally, yes, they were redeemed at full face value although there are exceptions. In New York, it depended on what secured the notes. Real Estate and bonds fluctuated in value and sometimes the security held by the bank wasn't sufficient to cover the face value of the outstanding notes presented. In these cases, where the state took over the assets of a failed bank and the assets weren't enough to pay off all of the notes, only a percentage of a the face value of the notes was paid out. If the bank went on to become a National Bank, then it had cleaned up its outstanding obsolete circulation, leaving only a few strays for possible later redemption.

I like the idea of creating numismatic collectibles by presenting notes for redemption. Maybe try some German inflation currency with the German embassy. They are probably used to answering that inquiry.

JBK · December 12, 2023 8:30AM

Thanks for more great insight on how that process worked.

@sellitstore said:

I like the idea of creating numismatic collectibles by presenting notes for redemption. Maybe try some German inflation currency with the German embassy. They are probably used to answering that inquiry.

I'm sitting on a supply of 1922 and 1923 German hyperinflation banknotes that I've been using for another project. I've been thinking of sending one off, and I think I'll definitely give it a try after the holidays. Maybe I'll try the same thing with an old US silver certificate.