When is an auction really over?
Once again, not until the skinny frenchman sings.
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Comments
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When the coin is in my hands.
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Not until the seller has been paid and the coin as advertised is in the buyers hand..........I think. 😂 🤣
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
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when the coin hammers
I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.3 -
Once the auctioneer says "SOLD!!!", the auction is over. Otherwise, there could be a big lawsuit.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire5 -
When I am either doing the Snoopy Dance in front of my computer or crying, "Why God, Why!!!!".
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How about an online auction, that has been advertised for weeks as ending at 8PM Eastern? One might think that when the online site shows the auction is over and the winning bid is $4000, that a bidder who entered a max bid of $5007 would be a happy person. That person probably was happy for an hour or so, until the owner of the auction site calls him/her and says "Sorry, somebody else bid $5100, and you didn't win". To make the bad news even harder to digest, the owner of the auction site readily acknowledges that the coin in question is his, with a reserve of $4000.
Vern
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.0 -
@barberkeys said:
How about an online auction, that has been advertised for weeks as ending at 8PM Eastern? One might think that when the online site shows the auction is over and the winning bid is $4000, that a bidder who entered a max bid of $5007 would be a happy person. That person probably was happy for an hour or so, until the owner of the auction site calls him/her and says "Sorry, somebody else bid $5100, and you didn't win". To make the bad news even harder to digest, the owner of the auction site readily acknowledges that the coin in question is his, with a reserve of $4000.You set that up nicely (the story, that is).
Smitten with DBLCs.
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@PerryHall said:
Once the auctioneer says "SOLD!!!", the auction is over. Otherwise, there could be a big lawsuit.I had a negative experience with a major auction house. I had a bid on the book for a 5 figure lot. I was watching the auction live on the computer. The hammer dropped with a bid that was a few thousand under my reserve. I waited around for 40 lots after the piece I won, and the auction lot was not re-opened.
The next day posters on this site commented about the lot I won and mentioned the price which was my winning bid.
Not long after that, I checked invoice and the selling price was higher.
I called up company and eventually got to a “Vice President.” He told me they had missed a “snail mail bid.” That was why they were charging me more. I could decline the lot or pay more.I got them down to a cut bid increment, but I was not happy. The hammer price is the price in my option.
That extra $600 they got out me was expensive for them. I have done limited business since then, and they are at bottom when comes time to sell my collection.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?8 -
@BillJones said:
@PerryHall said:
Once the auctioneer says "SOLD!!!", the auction is over. Otherwise, there could be a big lawsuit.I had a negative experience with a major auction house. I had a bid on the book for a 5 figure lot. I was watching the auction live on the computer. The hammer dropped with a bid that was a few thousand under my reserve. I waited around for 40 lots after the piece I won, and the auction lot was not re-opened.
The next day posters on this site commented about the lot I won and mentioned the price which was my winning bid.
Not long after that, I checked invoice and the selling price was higher.
I called up company and eventually got to a “Vice President.” He told me they had missed a “snail mail bid.” That was why they were charging me more. I could decline the lot or pay more.I got them down to a cut bid increment, but I was not happy. The hammer price is the price in my option.
That extra $600 they got out me was expensive for them. I have done limited business since then, and they are at bottom when comes time to sell my collection.
Not a smart auctioneer. They should have eaten the mistake.
I imagine reputation is paramount as an auctioneer? What did the small amount of money mean to them?
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@barberkeys said:
How about an online auction, that has been advertised for weeks as ending at 8PM Eastern? One might think that when the online site shows the auction is over and the winning bid is $4000, that a bidder who entered a max bid of $5007 would be a happy person. That person probably was happy for an hour or so, until the owner of the auction site calls him/her and says "Sorry, somebody else bid $5100, and you didn't win". To make the bad news even harder to digest, the owner of the auction site readily acknowledges that the coin in question is his, with a reserve of $4000.WOW, that story sounds a lot like an auction company that I "USED TO BID IN"
I would watch the hammer see that I won, only to find out the next day that I didn't win. They said that there was a higher bid! But I watched the hammer and it said I won!!! Sorry there was a higher bidder................so I don't bid with them anymore, can't be trusted.Edited to add:
BTW, this happened twice in different auctions!!!0 -
Here's one for ya.
It's over when you exhaust the amount of money willing to throw at the wall.
I won an auction years ago. Sent a money order.
Weeks later I checked on my item.
The seller said they didn't receive the money.
I tracked the money order as cashed with the wife's name on it.
$100 later the seller said he didn't get an money and wouldn't honor the sale.0 -
@rte592 said:
Here's one for ya.
It's over when you exhaust the amount of money willing to throw at the wall.
I won an auction years ago. Sent a money order.
Weeks later I checked on my item.
The seller said they didn't receive the money.
I tracked the money order as cashed with the wife's name on it.
$100 later the seller said he didn't get an money and wouldn't honor the sale.I have designated credit card(s) just for buying coins, it's easier to track everything that way
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@BillJones said:
@PerryHall said:
Once the auctioneer says "SOLD!!!", the auction is over. Otherwise, there could be a big lawsuit.I had a negative experience with a major auction house. I had a bid on the book for a 5 figure lot. I was watching the auction live on the computer. The hammer dropped with a bid that was a few thousand under my reserve. I waited around for 40 lots after the piece I won, and the auction lot was not re-opened.
The next day posters on this site commented about the lot I won and mentioned the price which was my winning bid.
Not long after that, I checked invoice and the selling price was higher.
I called up company and eventually got to a “Vice President.” He told me they had missed a “snail mail bid.” That was why they were charging me more. I could decline the lot or pay more.I got them down to a cut bid increment, but I was not happy. The hammer price is the price in my option.
That extra $600 they got out me was expensive for them. I have done limited business since then, and they are at bottom when comes time to sell my collection.
By honoring the new high bid ($600 more or however much), that could give the auction house fuel to continue to do this method of extortion and theft on a routine basis to more of their clients. I would’ve declined the lot, no exceptions.
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@alaura22 said:
@barberkeys said:
How about an online auction, that has been advertised for weeks as ending at 8PM Eastern? One might think that when the online site shows the auction is over and the winning bid is $4000, that a bidder who entered a max bid of $5007 would be a happy person. That person probably was happy for an hour or so, until the owner of the auction site calls him/her and says "Sorry, somebody else bid $5100, and you didn't win". To make the bad news even harder to digest, the owner of the auction site readily acknowledges that the coin in question is his, with a reserve of $4000.WOW, that story sounds a lot like an auction company that I "USED TO BID IN"
I would watch the hammer see that I won, only to find out the next day that I didn't win. They said that there was a higher bid! But I watched the hammer and it said I won!!! Sorry there was a higher bidder................so I don't bid with them anymore, can't be trusted.Edited to add:
BTW, this happened twice in different auctions!!!I personally have never signed up to participate in this particular auctioneer’s auctions. The software must be able to function in a predictable and transparent manner. If it doesn’t and is unable to be fixed, then the auction should not be conducted. Unfortunately, this seems to happen nearly every time. There are 3rd party solutions out there that would solve the problem.
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@jkrk said:
@BillJones said:
@PerryHall said:
Once the auctioneer says "SOLD!!!", the auction is over. Otherwise, there could be a big lawsuit.I had a negative experience with a major auction house. I had a bid on the book for a 5 figure lot. I was watching the auction live on the computer. The hammer dropped with a bid that was a few thousand under my reserve. I waited around for 40 lots after the piece I won, and the auction lot was not re-opened.
The next day posters on this site commented about the lot I won and mentioned the price which was my winning bid.
Not long after that, I checked invoice and the selling price was higher.
I called up company and eventually got to a “Vice President.” He told me they had missed a “snail mail bid.” That was why they were charging me more. I could decline the lot or pay more.I got them down to a cut bid increment, but I was not happy. The hammer price is the price in my option.
That extra $600 they got out me was expensive for them. I have done limited business since then, and they are at bottom when comes time to sell my collection.
Not a smart auctioneer. They should have eaten the mistake.
I imagine reputation is paramount as an auctioneer? What did the small amount of money mean to them?
I had another auctioneer who missed my bid. His comment was “Oh sh**. I didn’t get the lot. When he missed my bid another time, Dave Bowers, who won the lot, sold it to me at his cost. There are ways to handle this without alienating customers. This should be more obvious when that customer bought a 6 figure coin from you previously. I’m sure that extra $600 was will worth making a good customer angry.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?1 -
A REAL auction when the hammer goes down. The rest is just finishing the transaction. E-Bay is not a real auction house. It’s a retails house way more than an auction house. Auctions do not have returns
As In Bill Jones story the auction house is out of bounds. Really a late bid by mail? Too bad for the late bidder and the consigner. I would not use that house again for anything. Final bid stands. That is what an auction is. Good deal or bad deal, it’s the deal
My rant over
Martin5 -
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@alaura22 like I said not a true auction. If an auction takes a return it really is not a true auction. It is a consignment house posing as an auction house. Don’t be fooled.
Like my late father in law used to say. You go to a auction, get the horse and you get it home and find out it has a leg that screws on it’s still your horse
Martin
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@Martin said:
@alaura22 like I said not a true auction. If an auction takes a return it really is not a true auction. It is a consignment house posing as an auction house. Don’t be fooled.Like my late father in law used to say. You go to a auction, get the horse and you get it home and find out it has a leg that screws on it’s still your horse
Martin
I'm talking about major auction houses, not ebay which is like you said is a retail house
They just don't advertise it0 -
When the lot turns out to be a counterfeit. I returned a counterfeit coin to a dealer who bought it from Bowers and Marlena. They returned his money. It was a darn deceptive counterfeit. I saw what was wrong with it when I spent 5 minutes with it with a 10x. It was a circulated 1798 dime, it was very deceptive.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?2 -
@BillJones I guess what I’m saying is the auction house can fix a mistake it may make. I’m guessing in your case of the counterfeit they missed it also and would be prepared to eat the the coin if they had already settled with consigner. Just as with the 3 legged horse the house could if they wanted to take it back put it down or they could say to bad.
Martin
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@alaura22 I can see a major auction house taking something back they need to keep customers happy. But try doing it more than once. If they have done it more than once for you then I’d say they are a consignment house.
I’m not trying to be hard here. When you take something to auction or buy something at auction it should be a done deal when the hammer hits. Online auctions have definitely change the perception of what a REAL auction is.
Martin
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As far as I’m concerned it ain’t over until the payment has cleared and the coin(s) is/are in hand. I’ve arrived at this belief after having issues over the decades with even the big houses where “errors” occurred and what was presumed won was later lost due to bids not being entered, or some other double speak.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
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@Martin said:
@alaura22 I can see a major auction house taking something back they need to keep customers happy. But try doing it more than once. If they have done it more than once for you then I’d say they are a consignment house.I’m not trying to be hard here. When you take something to auction or buy something at auction it should be a done deal when the hammer hits. Online auctions have definitely change the perception of what a REAL auction is.
Martin
Martin
You made a statement
"Auctions do not have returns"
I just said that that is not always true, that's all
The end
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@Martin said:
@alaura22 I can see a major auction house taking something back they need to keep customers happy. But try doing it more than once. If they have done it more than once for you then I’d say they are a consignment house.I’m not trying to be hard here. When you take something to auction or buy something at auction it should be a done deal when the hammer hits. Online auctions have definitely change the perception of what a REAL auction is.
Martin
Quibbling about details but...
https://www.greatcollections.com/kb/What-is-your-return-policy-t83-4.html
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
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If one of the major auction houses has a lot that I really, really want, I always arrange for phone bidding. The auction house's phone reps sit in the front row right in front of the auctioneer so he, or she, can't miss them and they don't close the lot until either everyone else drops out or the phone rep signals that his bidder is out. I've never had a problem bidding that way.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
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@Project Numismatics said:
I personally have never signed up to participate in this particular auctioneer’s auctions. The software must be able to function in a predictable and transparent manner. If it doesn’t and is unable to be fixed, then the auction should not be conducted. Unfortunately, this seems to happen nearly every time. There are 3rd party solutions out there that would solve the problem.If they missed entering a mail bid into the system, it's got nothing to do with software or 3rd party this or that. It was a human error.
It's quite possible that the mail order bid predates OPs online bid and by the rules of the auction WAS the proper winning bid. Those very rules almost certainly have a clause allowing them to correct errors until the coins are paid for.
Put yourself in the shoes of the actually winning bidder. They placed a bid and saw that they had won, only to have the coin stolen by some online bid.
-----Burton
ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/0 -
@PerryHall said:
Once the auctioneer says "SOLD!!!", the auction is over. Otherwise, there could be a big lawsuit.Except auctions on eBay. They're not over until eBay says it's over. Where the seller is guaranteed a loss if there's an issue, and the auctioneer and bidder always win even when there really isn't an issue.
So in that venue .... auctions kinda suck and aren't over until the high bidder accepts the item. Months could pass. Ask eBay.0 -
@BStrauss3 said:
@Project Numismatics said:
I personally have never signed up to participate in this particular auctioneer’s auctions. The software must be able to function in a predictable and transparent manner. If it doesn’t and is unable to be fixed, then the auction should not be conducted. Unfortunately, this seems to happen nearly every time. There are 3rd party solutions out there that would solve the problem.If they missed entering a mail bid into the system, it's got nothing to do with software or 3rd party this or that. It was a human error.
It's quite possible that the mail order bid predates OPs online bid and by the rules of the auction WAS the proper winning bid. Those very rules almost certainly have a clause allowing them to correct errors until the coins are paid for.
Put yourself in the shoes of the actually winning bidder. They placed a bid and saw that they had won, only to have the coin stolen by some online bid.
We are talking about two different events. I am referring to the OP ‘s original complaint which has nothing to do with mail bids.
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