Once cleaned does PVC tend to come back over time?

PillarDollarCollector · October 10, 2023 2:46PM

Curious what you guys have seen over time?

PillarDollarCollector · October 10, 2023 2:51PM

Does lemon juice or rubbing alcohol work to remove PVC? How about hot water and baking soda? I know acetone works but curious about the other 3.

PillarDollarCollector · October 10, 2023 2:55PM

And if either of those 3 work how long is it best to let it bathe?

PerryHall · October 10, 2023 3:14PM

An acetone soak and rinse is the preferred method of removing PVC from a coin. PVC will not come back unless you put it back into a PVC flip.

Namvet69 · October 10, 2023 3:15PM

I would not use lemon juice as it is a mild acid. Acetone soak can be overnight or longer as pvc dissolves very slowly. And it's cheap so refreshing the soak is helpful. Especially if I can see goop in the design corners. IMO acetone is better than alcohol. Good luck.

PillarDollarCollector · October 10, 2023 3:36PM

What does baking soda and hot water do? Just clean the dirt?

PillarDollarCollector · October 10, 2023 3:39PM

@PerryHall said:
An acetone soak and rinse is the preferred method of removing PVC from a coin. PVC will not come back unless you put it back into a PVC flip.

What do you do flip the coin 12 hours in so total 24 hours?

PerryHall · October 10, 2023 4:15PM

@PillarDollarCollector said:

@PerryHall said:
An acetone soak and rinse is the preferred method of removing PVC from a coin. PVC will not come back unless you put it back into a PVC flip.

What do you do flip the coin 12 hours in so total 24 hours?

However long it takes to dissolve the PVC. I wouldn't think it would take more than an hour or two. Use a glass container in a well-ventilated area and keep it covered since acetone evaporates very fast.

PillarDollarCollector · October 10, 2023 5:07PM

@PerryHall said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:

@PerryHall said:
An acetone soak and rinse is the preferred method of removing PVC from a coin. PVC will not come back unless you put it back into a PVC flip.

What do you do flip the coin 12 hours in so total 24 hours?

However long it takes to dissolve the PVC. I wouldn't think it would take more than an hour or two. Use a glass container in a well-ventilated area and keep it covered since acetone evaporates very fast.

Thanks.

PillarDollarCollector · October 10, 2023 5:07PM

@PillarDollarCollector said:
What does baking soda and hot water do? Just clean the dirt?

Anyone?

PillarDollarCollector · October 10, 2023 5:26PM

@PerryHall said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:

@PerryHall said:
An acetone soak and rinse is the preferred method of removing PVC from a coin. PVC will not come back unless you put it back into a PVC flip.

What do you do flip the coin 12 hours in so total 24 hours?

However long it takes to dissolve the PVC. I wouldn't think it would take more than an hour or two. Use a glass container in a well-ventilated area and keep it covered since acetone evaporates very fast.

Do you rinse the coin with water after and for how long? How long do you let the coin dry before putting into a 2 by 2 holder?

Ownerofawheatiehorde · October 10, 2023 5:27PM

@PillarDollarCollector said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:
What does baking soda and hot water do? Just clean the dirt?

Anyone?

Baking soda and hot water removes toning and can "dull" the coin. Would not recommend.

PerryHall · October 10, 2023 5:30PM

@PillarDollarCollector said:

@PerryHall said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:

@PerryHall said:
An acetone soak and rinse is the preferred method of removing PVC from a coin. PVC will not come back unless you put it back into a PVC flip.

What do you do flip the coin 12 hours in so total 24 hours?

However long it takes to dissolve the PVC. I wouldn't think it would take more than an hour or two. Use a glass container in a well-ventilated area and keep it covered since acetone evaporates very fast.

Do you rinse the coin with water after and for how long? How long do you let the coin dry before putting into a 2 by 2 holder?

A quick rinse with pure acetone and it will quickly evaporate.

PillarDollarCollector · October 10, 2023 5:37PM

Does Ezest work to remove PVC just curious I will likely use acetone.

Coinscratch · October 10, 2023 5:48PM

What does PVC look like on a coin? I assume this is different than the white oxidation found on coins in mint sets?
I’ve soaked coins for days in 91% alcohol or pure acetone with only dismal results.

Ownerofawheatiehorde · October 10, 2023 6:13PM

@Coinscratch said:
What does PVC look like on a coin? I assume this is different than the white oxidation found on coins in mint sets?
I’ve soaked coins for days in 91% alcohol or pure acetone with only dismal results.

A greenish-grey film.
It can range from a barely noticeable smudge, to a rotting green "coin".

Stingray63 · October 15, 2023 11:06AM

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Does lemon juice or rubbing alcohol work to remove PVC? How about hot water and baking soda? I know acetone works but curious about the other 3.

I've only used acetone and would be afraid to try the other methods. Never had any reoccurrence on my oldest acetone bath 3 years ago. It may depend on how bad the PVC is. Never rinsed off. Just kept turning the coin until the acetone evaporated. 10-15 seconds.

Cougar1978 · October 15, 2023 1:16PM

Dipping them in jewel luster - no problems. Do a quick in and out (possibly a few seconds) then rinse well with water.

BustDMs · October 15, 2023 1:41PM

Just realize that acetone will not alter the surface of the coin and will preserve actual toning.

Jewelluster and other similar acid dips will remove the toning and slightly alter the coins surface.

Experiment on cheap stuff before using on your better items. Always remember to rinse liberally.

Sapyx · October 15, 2023 5:16PM

Since this thread is being bumped anyway...

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Once cleaned does PVC tend to come back over time?

No, it does not. "Bronze disease" can come back, if it's not treated properly. But PVC goo is an entirely different chemical substance. The only thing they have in common is that they're both green.

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Does lemon juice or rubbing alcohol work to remove PVC? How about hot water and baking soda? I know acetone works but curious about the other 3.

Rubbing alcohol, yes. Not as well as acetone, but yes. The other two, no and no. Lemon juice is acidic, it removes toning but does nothing to PVC goo. The hot--water-aluminium-and-baking-soda method is for tarnish removal, and likewise does nothing to PVC damage.

@PillarDollarCollector said:
What does baking soda and hot water do? Just clean the dirt?

It's not "dirt", it's tarnish. Please stop calling it "dirt".

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Does Ezest work to remove PVC just curious I will likely use acetone.

E-Z-est is a sulfuric-acid-and-thiourea "silver dip". It removes toning/tarnish, just like the bicarb-aluminium method. It does nothing for PVC goo. The chemical reaction it uses to remove tarnish is different from the bicarb method, in that the silver sulfide is dissolved and washed away; the silver atoms are not re-deposited back onto the surface of the coin again.

@Coinscratch said:
What does PVC look like on a coin? I assume this is different than the white oxidation found on coins in mint sets?
I’ve soaked coins for days in 91% alcohol or pure acetone with only dismal results.

It's green, normally. And yes, it's not the same as oxidation. Acetone, isopropanol and other solvents will do nothing to oxidation - which is why coin collectors like to use them.

Just for people's interest, in case they were unaware. We talk about "PVC damage" and "PVC goo", but the "goo" isn't actually made of PVC. PVC (polyvinyl chloride) in its "raw" form is hard and brittle, chemically inert, and not quite transparent. To make it soft, flexible and transparent (like a coin album page), you need to add plasticizer. The plasticizers most commonly used are phthalates. To make phthalates, you need sulfuric acid, and this sulfuric acid is usually still present in the phthalates when they add it to the vinyl chloride to make plasticized PVC. It is this phthalate-acid mixture that forms goo and cause the damage to coins, not the PVC itself.

Most plasticizer phthalates are an oily liquid at room temperature. The phthalates (and the sulfuric acid) don't react or chemcially combine with the vinyl chloride, they just float there, held in place by the polymer matrix. But over time, and especially if placed under pressure, the phthalates get squeezed out of the polymer lattice and form a gooey layer on whatever surface the PVC was touching - such as one of your coins. This phthalate goo carries the acid with it. If it touches metal, particularly copper, nickel or an alloy containing copper or nickel, the acid still trapped in the phthalate goo will react with the metal and metal oxides on the coin's surface, turning the "goo" green from dissolved copper or nickel sulfate salt.

It is technically possible to buy acid-free, phthalate-free PVC coin album pages. But it's rarely used, because it's very expensive; other non-PVC-based plastics are cheaper alternatives. Phthalate PVC is much cheaper, which is why the made-in-China cheap album pages are still made from it.

Coinscratch · October 15, 2023 8:05PM

Very interesting @Sapyx and thanks for your reply as well. What would you recommend for use in removing oxidation from modern clads? That would be a game changer. I've noticed the tendency of upgrades in Coinfacts specifically for Kennedys moving from 7 to 7+ are typically lighter. It seems they're being dipped in something less its the photography.

Sapyx · October 15, 2023 8:24PM

As a general rule, you don't want to be removing oxidation from base-metal - anything strong enough to do that, is also strong enough to strip the surface, destroying the lustre and leaving a "cleaned coin" behind.

Coinscratch · October 16, 2023 4:42AM

@Sapyx said:
As a general rule, you don't want to be removing oxidation from base-metal - anything strong enough to do that, is also strong enough to strip the surface, destroying the lustre and leaving a "cleaned coin" behind.

That’s what I was afraid of.

7Jaguars · October 16, 2023 6:36AM

Nothing to add except that the aluminum and bicarb (baking soda) is a redox reaction and should not remove metal. However as Sapyx pointed out it will not likely do much for the "PVC" - except that if the water is boiling that may but is the heat that would be the major cause of such.

davewesen · October 16, 2023 7:36AM

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Does Ezest work to remove PVC just curious I will likely use acetone.

never use this on a circulated coin

if you have pvc, pour some out of the container to dip in or you will contaminate rest of jar

mr1931S · October 16, 2023 8:18AM

Baking soda is an abrasive. Not for use on a coin you care about. Baking soda treatment will give a chrome look to a silver coin.

AUandAG · October 16, 2023 9:06AM

100% acetone is super cheap. Just go with that. I use a glass bowl (small) to soak in. Let it soak and when you see the PVC green gunk in gone, repeat with another soak. I always cover the glass bowl as acetone evaporates very quickly and the fumes are not good in inhale. Once you are done soaking, once, twice or whatever, then pour a bit over the coin on both sides to rinse off the "stale" used acetone.
Easy peasy.
bob
vegas baby!

Once cleaned does PVC tend to come back over time?

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