Once cleaned does PVC tend to come back over time?
Early_Milled_Latin_America
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Curious what you guys have seen over time?
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Early_Milled_Latin_America
Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
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Does lemon juice or rubbing alcohol work to remove PVC? How about hot water and baking soda? I know acetone works but curious about the other 3.
And if either of those 3 work how long is it best to let it bathe?
An acetone soak and rinse is the preferred method of removing PVC from a coin. PVC will not come back unless you put it back into a PVC flip.
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I would not use lemon juice as it is a mild acid. Acetone soak can be overnight or longer as pvc dissolves very slowly. And it's cheap so refreshing the soak is helpful. Especially if I can see goop in the design corners. IMO acetone is better than alcohol. Good luck.
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What does baking soda and hot water do? Just clean the dirt?
What do you do flip the coin 12 hours in so total 24 hours?
However long it takes to dissolve the PVC. I wouldn't think it would take more than an hour or two. Use a glass container in a well-ventilated area and keep it covered since acetone evaporates very fast.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Thanks.
Anyone?
Do you rinse the coin with water after and for how long? How long do you let the coin dry before putting into a 2 by 2 holder?
Baking soda and hot water removes toning and can "dull" the coin. Would not recommend.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
A quick rinse with pure acetone and it will quickly evaporate.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Does Ezest work to remove PVC just curious I will likely use acetone.
What does PVC look like on a coin? I assume this is different than the white oxidation found on coins in mint sets?
I’ve soaked coins for days in 91% alcohol or pure acetone with only dismal results.
A greenish-grey film.
It can range from a barely noticeable smudge, to a rotting green "coin".
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
I've only used acetone and would be afraid to try the other methods. Never had any reoccurrence on my oldest acetone bath 3 years ago. It may depend on how bad the PVC is. Never rinsed off. Just kept turning the coin until the acetone evaporated. 10-15 seconds.
Pocket Change Inspector
Dipping them in jewel luster - no problems. Do a quick in and out (possibly a few seconds) then rinse well with water.
Just realize that acetone will not alter the surface of the coin and will preserve actual toning.
Jewelluster and other similar acid dips will remove the toning and slightly alter the coins surface.
Experiment on cheap stuff before using on your better items. Always remember to rinse liberally.
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A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
Since this thread is being bumped anyway...
No, it does not. "Bronze disease" can come back, if it's not treated properly. But PVC goo is an entirely different chemical substance. The only thing they have in common is that they're both green.
Rubbing alcohol, yes. Not as well as acetone, but yes. The other two, no and no. Lemon juice is acidic, it removes toning but does nothing to PVC goo. The hot--water-aluminium-and-baking-soda method is for tarnish removal, and likewise does nothing to PVC damage.
It's not "dirt", it's tarnish. Please stop calling it "dirt".
E-Z-est is a sulfuric-acid-and-thiourea "silver dip". It removes toning/tarnish, just like the bicarb-aluminium method. It does nothing for PVC goo. The chemical reaction it uses to remove tarnish is different from the bicarb method, in that the silver sulfide is dissolved and washed away; the silver atoms are not re-deposited back onto the surface of the coin again.
It's green, normally. And yes, it's not the same as oxidation. Acetone, isopropanol and other solvents will do nothing to oxidation - which is why coin collectors like to use them.
Just for people's interest, in case they were unaware. We talk about "PVC damage" and "PVC goo", but the "goo" isn't actually made of PVC. PVC (polyvinyl chloride) in its "raw" form is hard and brittle, chemically inert, and not quite transparent. To make it soft, flexible and transparent (like a coin album page), you need to add plasticizer. The plasticizers most commonly used are phthalates. To make phthalates, you need sulfuric acid, and this sulfuric acid is usually still present in the phthalates when they add it to the vinyl chloride to make plasticized PVC. It is this phthalate-acid mixture that forms goo and cause the damage to coins, not the PVC itself.
Most plasticizer phthalates are an oily liquid at room temperature. The phthalates (and the sulfuric acid) don't react or chemcially combine with the vinyl chloride, they just float there, held in place by the polymer matrix. But over time, and especially if placed under pressure, the phthalates get squeezed out of the polymer lattice and form a gooey layer on whatever surface the PVC was touching - such as one of your coins. This phthalate goo carries the acid with it. If it touches metal, particularly copper, nickel or an alloy containing copper or nickel, the acid still trapped in the phthalate goo will react with the metal and metal oxides on the coin's surface, turning the "goo" green from dissolved copper or nickel sulfate salt.
It is technically possible to buy acid-free, phthalate-free PVC coin album pages. But it's rarely used, because it's very expensive; other non-PVC-based plastics are cheaper alternatives. Phthalate PVC is much cheaper, which is why the made-in-China cheap album pages are still made from it.
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Very interesting @Sapyx and thanks for your reply as well. What would you recommend for use in removing oxidation from modern clads? That would be a game changer. I've noticed the tendency of upgrades in Coinfacts specifically for Kennedys moving from 7 to 7+ are typically lighter. It seems they're being dipped in something less its the photography.
As a general rule, you don't want to be removing oxidation from base-metal - anything strong enough to do that, is also strong enough to strip the surface, destroying the lustre and leaving a "cleaned coin" behind.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded the DPOTD twice.
That’s what I was afraid of.
Nothing to add except that the aluminum and bicarb (baking soda) is a redox reaction and should not remove metal. However as Sapyx pointed out it will not likely do much for the "PVC" - except that if the water is boiling that may but is the heat that would be the major cause of such.
Well, just Love coins, period.
never use this on a circulated coin
if you have pvc, pour some out of the container to dip in or you will contaminate rest of jar
Baking soda is an abrasive. Not for use on a coin you care about. Baking soda treatment will give a chrome look to a silver coin.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
100% acetone is super cheap. Just go with that. I use a glass bowl (small) to soak in. Let it soak and when you see the PVC green gunk in gone, repeat with another soak. I always cover the glass bowl as acetone evaporates very quickly and the fumes are not good in inhale. Once you are done soaking, once, twice or whatever, then pour a bit over the coin on both sides to rinse off the "stale" used acetone.
Easy peasy.
bob
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