@BStrauss3 said:
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
Just to clarify I wasn’t pointing out that it was unusual or bad for the VB offer to be lower than full market price as their buy backs are also a profit avenue. I was more suggesting that I was surprised to see Red Core coins that have an IO/BIN price very similar to the original purchase price of product itself. (and I will admit I’ve not done much research on the product)
I just would have thought that there would be a bigger upside swing for all of the 11-12% of “lucky openers”. I’ve done no math or anything to figure out the actual cost/profit ratios with expenses taken into consideration, I was just a little surprised that a Red Core coin offered could amount to basically a break even after taxes, shipping, etc.
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
@BStrauss3 said:
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
Just to clarify I wasn’t pointing out that it was unusual or bad for the VB offer to be lower than full market price as their buy backs are also a profit avenue. I was more suggesting that I was surprised to see Red Core coins that have an IO/BIN price very similar to the original purchase price of product itself. (and I will admit I’ve not done much research on the product)
I just would have thought that there would be a bigger upside swing for all of the 11-12% of “lucky openers”. I’ve done no math or anything to figure out the actual cost/profit ratios with expenses taken into consideration, I was just a little surprised that a Red Core coin offered could amount to basically a break even after taxes, shipping, etc.
I agree with you. When I saw it was a coveted red core my immediate thought was big WINNER!🤣😂
I was disappointed when I saw the $250 offer and then my LCS owner (who is a friend) mocked me and said it wasn't even close to being worth $250.
Fortunately he is wrong so that makes me feel a little better.😂🤣
More importantly, I am happy that we are finally able to discuss VaultBox.😎
Hopefully others will be willing to share their results.🤞
@bigjpst said:
Looks like even ANACs 70s sell for $300+ on eBay. PCGS and NGC closer to $400.
Not sure if the NGX is worth anything for VB. You already took the gamble on the VB why not run an auction starting at .99c on eBay and see where it lands.
That is a great suggestion but for now I am going to keep it. I will be watching Ebay to see if someone sells one.😎
@UpGrayedd said:
I don't dislike VB like some, and it looks like a nice coin if you collect moderns. However, I'm a little surprised that a 2021 Peace Dollar is considered one of the red core hits. You definitely got your money's worth, but it doesn't really look like a huge score IMHO.
Edited for typo.
I agree. Not a huge hit. Kinda surprised it is a red core but maybe the red cores start at a value equal to or greater than the cost of a box.🤔
That has been the case with the other series. The number of BIG WINNERS has always been only a couple percent. The bottom of the red core hits all had values of only 20% or so above the purchase price. [Not accounting, of course, for whatever label premium exists. ]
I’m glad that you were able to get a red core Freddie but yeah I also didn’t really internalize that the red core values started out just above break even.
Congrats!! Will you be changing your moniker to RedCoreFreddie ? Great getting a Red Core, but as others have pointed out, not all red cores have the same value...still cool though.
@Onastone said:
Congrats!! Will you be changing your moniker to RedCoreFreddie ? Great getting a Red Core, but as others have pointed out, not all red cores have the same value...still cool though.
@BStrauss3 said:
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
You are correct that if it sells on Ebay for only $300 then the VB offer of $250 is competitive.
However it appears the coin will sell for more than $300 based on Ebay completed auctions. Unless no one likes the VB 10 label vs. the MS70 label.
That is the unknown factor since none have been listed for sale yet.😉
Also unclear is what is the motivation behind the instant offers... this is the only value-point I've seen on red-core. And despite what we usually do on these boards (generalize a 2nd order derivative trend line from one data point)...
The one I bought off fleaBay had an instant offer above the regular selling price, putting a price floor (not really a value, but) underneath the lower-end merch. I bought it for my slab collection, so I'm not going to flip it to make $10. It does let them ignore / dismiss the value analysis based on NGC's price guide.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I've seen a lot of you tube videos of people saying the modern dollars took away from the attractiveness to buy series 4. Who wants to buy a vault box just to get an American silver eagle. However, it seems series 5 will be better. They will have commemoratives from what I heard. Hoping they will be classic and not modern.
On eBay live, pinhust coins was selling sealed series 4 that were going for 285 to 320 range.
Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP
@coinandcurrency242 said:
I've seen a lot of you tube videos of people saying the modern dollars took away from the attractiveness to buy series 4. Who wants to buy a vault box just to get an American silver eagle. However, it seems series 5 will be better. They will have commemoratives from what I heard. Hoping they will be classic and not modern.
On eBay live, pinhust coins was selling sealed series 4 that were going for 285 to 320 range.
Agreed. Also, I don't like how NGCX has muddied the waters with their 10 point scale for the Morgans and Peace dollars.
I am watching to see if this coin will bring a premium or a discount based on the red core and/or 10 rating vs. Sheldon MS70.
@BStrauss3 said:
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
You are correct that if it sells on Ebay for only $300 then the VB offer of $250 is competitive.
However it appears the coin will sell for more than $300 based on Ebay completed auctions. Unless no one likes the VB 10 label vs. the MS70 label.
That is the unknown factor since none have been listed for sale yet.😉
Also unclear is what is the motivation behind the instant offers... this is the only value-point I've seen on red-core. And despite what we usually do on these boards (generalize a 2nd order derivative trend line from one data point)...
The one I bought off fleaBay had an instant offer above the regular selling price, putting a price floor (not really a value, but) underneath the lower-end merch. I bought it for my slab collection, so I'm not going to flip it to make $10. It does let them ignore / dismiss the value analysis based on NGC's price guide.
Not gonna pretend I understand what you mean. You lost me at derivative trend line!🤣😂
@BStrauss3 said:
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
You are correct that if it sells on Ebay for only $300 then the VB offer of $250 is competitive.
However it appears the coin will sell for more than $300 based on Ebay completed auctions. Unless no one likes the VB 10 label vs. the MS70 label.
That is the unknown factor since none have been listed for sale yet.😉
Also unclear is what is the motivation behind the instant offers... this is the only value-point I've seen on red-core. And despite what we usually do on these boards (generalize a 2nd order derivative trend line from one data point)...
The one I bought off fleaBay had an instant offer above the regular selling price, putting a price floor (not really a value, but) underneath the lower-end merch. I bought it for my slab collection, so I'm not going to flip it to make $10. It does let them ignore / dismiss the value analysis based on NGC's price guide.
The point is to give those who want it an easy, hassle free way to turn it into cash, without having to know coins, create an eBay account and deal with all the issues associated with selling there, give a bid-ask spread to a dealer, etc. It's meant for non-collectors to turn their lottery ticket into cold, hard cash, rather than as an actual selling outlet for anyone reading this. Even the lowest of the low end merch has an established value, so it was never designed to provide an outlet for something that otherwise could not be sold.
The fact that they do it at all is a value-add for non-collectors drawn into the FOMO aspect of VB, and the fact that it's not related to NGC price guide values is fine, since they themselves are usually significantly inflated.
Even more interesting is the fact that Freddie chose to share his prize with us on the board this time, while denying us all the pleasure on VB 3. Speaks volumes regarding what he likely received in VB 3. I wonder just how well he has done since they made it affordable for him to take the plunge, given the fact that he apparently feels this is still worth promoting (discussing 😂) incessantly.
Even though I've never played, and never will, I too thought red core meant something more than not getting totally screwed. Even more evidence for those on the fence that these are crap.
I watched a bunch of unboxing lives on whatnot. Most sold around $320-$340 but as time went on I started seeing $400+ then even some as much as $500. Of course only a small handful of red core. I didn’t see any of the big hits pulled.
One dealer did a dozen or so by opening the box live and not showing coin just core color. Then he let the bidding go. Black core slabs were still bid up to around $200. The one red I saw him pull bid up to about $800. IMO people bidding $200 knowing they were only getting a black core and that the coin was likely worth $50-$150 suggests there is some sort of collector for these slabs. Or, people thought that the higher end black cores were worth more than they are and still thought they had a chance to make money
I see the VB as being a net good for the hobby. It brings in new interest. I don’t see it as a lot different than people buying mint products hoping for a good flip. Or opportunity to make a bit of money to buy what they like. The only thing I didn’t really like was the over hyping of loser coins after people bid $300 and winning a 2012 proof ASE. Sure you don’t want to kick people that just lost a bet, but it was a bit weird to watch.
I bought a couple at MSRP.
I never really liked selling sealed boxes of anything myself except to other dealers, so I’ll probably open mine and take the lumps or wins. Haven’t decided yet.
Interesting and thank you for the WhatNot update. The true winners are the WhatNot sellers who are using the VB boxes to draw in viewers to their shows.
Perfect example of FOMO and lack of discipline by the people bidding on these box openings!🙄
@bigjpst said:
I watched a bunch of unboxing lives on whatnot. Most sold around $320-$340 but as time went on I started seeing $400+ then even some as much as $500. Of course only a small handful of red core. I didn’t see any of the big hits pulled.
One dealer did a dozen or so by opening the box live and not showing coin just core color. Then he let the bidding go. Black core slabs were still bid up to around $200. The one red I saw him pull bid up to about $800. IMO people bidding $200 knowing they were only getting a black core and that the coin was likely worth $50-$150 suggests there is some sort of collector for these slabs. Or, people thought that the higher end black cores were worth more than they are and still thought they had a chance to make money
I see the VB as being a net good for the hobby. It brings in new interest. I don’t see it as a lot different than people buying mint products hoping for a good flip. Or opportunity to make a bit of money to buy what they like. The only thing I didn’t really like was the over hyping of loser coins after people bid $300 and winning a 2012 proof ASE. Sure you don’t want to kick people that just lost a bet, but it was a bit weird to watch.
I bought a couple at MSRP.
I never really liked selling sealed boxes of anything myself except to other dealers, so I’ll probably open mine and take the lumps or wins. Haven’t decided yet.
What you are describing begs the question -- are there really that many stupid people on Whatnot, or were you just watching a bunch of shills bidding up crap in an attempt to snare a sucker? Congratulating people for buying a 2012 proof ASE for $300 strongly suggests the latter. It's not a crime, if this is what people choose to do with their money, but it's odd to see this level of interest in this among the relatively more sophisticated collectors that tend to populate this forum.
@BStrauss3 said:
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
Just to clarify I wasn’t pointing out that it was unusual or bad for the VB offer to be lower than full market price as their buy backs are also a profit avenue. I was more suggesting that I was surprised to see Red Core coins that have an IO/BIN price very similar to the original purchase price of product itself. (and I will admit I’ve not done much research on the product)
I just would have thought that there would be a bigger upside swing for all of the 11-12% of “lucky openers”. I’ve done no math or anything to figure out the actual cost/profit ratios with expenses taken into consideration, I was just a little surprised that a Red Core coin offered could amount to basically a break even after taxes, shipping, etc.
I agree with you. When I saw it was a coveted red core my immediate thought was big WINNER!🤣😂
I was disappointed when I saw the $250 offer and then my LCS owner (who is a friend) mocked me and said it wasn't even close to being worth $250.
Fortunately he is wrong so that makes me feel a little better.😂🤣
More importantly, I am happy that we are finally able to discuss VaultBox.😎
Hopefully others will be willing to share their results.🤞
@BStrauss3 said:
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
Just to clarify I wasn’t pointing out that it was unusual or bad for the VB offer to be lower than full market price as their buy backs are also a profit avenue. I was more suggesting that I was surprised to see Red Core coins that have an IO/BIN price very similar to the original purchase price of product itself. (and I will admit I’ve not done much research on the product)
I just would have thought that there would be a bigger upside swing for all of the 11-12% of “lucky openers”. I’ve done no math or anything to figure out the actual cost/profit ratios with expenses taken into consideration, I was just a little surprised that a Red Core coin offered could amount to basically a break even after taxes, shipping, etc.
I agree with you. When I saw it was a coveted red core my immediate thought was big WINNER!🤣😂
I was disappointed when I saw the $250 offer and then my LCS owner (who is a friend) mocked me and said it wasn't even close to being worth $250.
Fortunately he is wrong so that makes me feel a little better.😂🤣
More importantly, I am happy that we are finally able to discuss VaultBox.😎
Hopefully others will be willing to share their results.🤞
Not sure your LCS owner is a much of a "friend".
He definitely is a good friend and like true friends we don't agree on everything but can shake hands, agree to disagree and move on without continuing to argue. For the record he is NOT a fan of VB and will never be one.😂🤣
We are like most members on here that can do the same but unfortunately not all members on here can follow the same rule.😉
@BStrauss3 said:
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
Just to clarify I wasn’t pointing out that it was unusual or bad for the VB offer to be lower than full market price as their buy backs are also a profit avenue. I was more suggesting that I was surprised to see Red Core coins that have an IO/BIN price very similar to the original purchase price of product itself. (and I will admit I’ve not done much research on the product)
I just would have thought that there would be a bigger upside swing for all of the 11-12% of “lucky openers”. I’ve done no math or anything to figure out the actual cost/profit ratios with expenses taken into consideration, I was just a little surprised that a Red Core coin offered could amount to basically a break even after taxes, shipping, etc.
I agree with you. When I saw it was a coveted red core my immediate thought was big WINNER!🤣😂
I was disappointed when I saw the $250 offer and then my LCS owner (who is a friend) mocked me and said it wasn't even close to being worth $250.
Fortunately he is wrong so that makes me feel a little better.😂🤣
More importantly, I am happy that we are finally able to discuss VaultBox.😎
Hopefully others will be willing to share their results.🤞
Not sure your LCS owner is a much of a "friend".
He definitely is a good friend and like true friends we don't agree on everything but can shake hands, agree to disagree and move on without continuing to argue. For the record he is NOT a fan of VB and will never be one.😂🤣
We are like most members on here that can do the same but unfortunately not all members on here can follow the same rule.😉
You should be able to easily net $300 after fees on eBay for 2021 Peace dollar in NGC MS70 / NGX MS10. He was either uninformed or misled you by saying it's a <$250 coin. At $250, there would be at minimum a 20% margin in it for him - that's a lot for a common, liquid coin.
@BStrauss3 said:
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
Just to clarify I wasn’t pointing out that it was unusual or bad for the VB offer to be lower than full market price as their buy backs are also a profit avenue. I was more suggesting that I was surprised to see Red Core coins that have an IO/BIN price very similar to the original purchase price of product itself. (and I will admit I’ve not done much research on the product)
I just would have thought that there would be a bigger upside swing for all of the 11-12% of “lucky openers”. I’ve done no math or anything to figure out the actual cost/profit ratios with expenses taken into consideration, I was just a little surprised that a Red Core coin offered could amount to basically a break even after taxes, shipping, etc.
I agree with you. When I saw it was a coveted red core my immediate thought was big WINNER!🤣😂
I was disappointed when I saw the $250 offer and then my LCS owner (who is a friend) mocked me and said it wasn't even close to being worth $250.
Fortunately he is wrong so that makes me feel a little better.😂🤣
More importantly, I am happy that we are finally able to discuss VaultBox.😎
Hopefully others will be willing to share their results.🤞
Not sure your LCS owner is a much of a "friend".
He definitely is a good friend and like true friends we don't agree on everything but can shake hands, agree to disagree and move on without continuing to argue. For the record he is NOT a fan of VB and will never be one.😂🤣
We are like most members on here that can do the same but unfortunately not all members on here can follow the same rule.😉
"Good friends" don't "agree to disagree" on objective measures like eBay final auction prices. Dealers trying to rip-off unsuspecting customers try to tell people they hope don't know better that a coin worth between $300-400 isn't even worth $250.
Please tell us who this person is, so we can avoid doing business with him. In the meantime, this explains a lot about why you are mesmerized by the VB concept, so I should probably cut you some slack.
@BStrauss3 said:
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
Just to clarify I wasn’t pointing out that it was unusual or bad for the VB offer to be lower than full market price as their buy backs are also a profit avenue. I was more suggesting that I was surprised to see Red Core coins that have an IO/BIN price very similar to the original purchase price of product itself. (and I will admit I’ve not done much research on the product)
I just would have thought that there would be a bigger upside swing for all of the 11-12% of “lucky openers”. I’ve done no math or anything to figure out the actual cost/profit ratios with expenses taken into consideration, I was just a little surprised that a Red Core coin offered could amount to basically a break even after taxes, shipping, etc.
I agree with you. When I saw it was a coveted red core my immediate thought was big WINNER!🤣😂
I was disappointed when I saw the $250 offer and then my LCS owner (who is a friend) mocked me and said it wasn't even close to being worth $250.
Fortunately he is wrong so that makes me feel a little better.😂🤣
More importantly, I am happy that we are finally able to discuss VaultBox.😎
Hopefully others will be willing to share their results.🤞
Not sure your LCS owner is a much of a "friend".
He definitely is a good friend and like true friends we don't agree on everything but can shake hands, agree to disagree and move on without continuing to argue. For the record he is NOT a fan of VB and will never be one.😂🤣
We are like most members on here that can do the same but unfortunately not all members on here can follow the same rule.😉
You should be able to easily net $300 after fees on eBay for 2021 Peace dollar in NGC MS70 / NGX MS10. He was either uninformed or misled you by saying it's a <$250 coin. At $250, there would be at minimum a 20% margin in it for him - that's a lot for a common, liquid coin.
To be clear, he wasn't trying to buy my coin. His viewpoint was that he had several raw 2021 Peace dollars that he grades at MS70 and he has no buyers for them at $125.
Now that I did my research and others agree my coin is worth $300 minimum, I am contemplating buying his coins to send off to be graded. I will ask him to put his money where his mouth is and offer me a money back guarantee if NGC grades them lower than MS70.🤣😂
@BStrauss3 said:
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
Just to clarify I wasn’t pointing out that it was unusual or bad for the VB offer to be lower than full market price as their buy backs are also a profit avenue. I was more suggesting that I was surprised to see Red Core coins that have an IO/BIN price very similar to the original purchase price of product itself. (and I will admit I’ve not done much research on the product)
I just would have thought that there would be a bigger upside swing for all of the 11-12% of “lucky openers”. I’ve done no math or anything to figure out the actual cost/profit ratios with expenses taken into consideration, I was just a little surprised that a Red Core coin offered could amount to basically a break even after taxes, shipping, etc.
I agree with you. When I saw it was a coveted red core my immediate thought was big WINNER!🤣😂
I was disappointed when I saw the $250 offer and then my LCS owner (who is a friend) mocked me and said it wasn't even close to being worth $250.
Fortunately he is wrong so that makes me feel a little better.😂🤣
More importantly, I am happy that we are finally able to discuss VaultBox.😎
Hopefully others will be willing to share their results.🤞
Not sure your LCS owner is a much of a "friend".
He definitely is a good friend and like true friends we don't agree on everything but can shake hands, agree to disagree and move on without continuing to argue. For the record he is NOT a fan of VB and will never be one.😂🤣
We are like most members on here that can do the same but unfortunately not all members on here can follow the same rule.😉
You should be able to easily net $300 after fees on eBay for 2021 Peace dollar in NGC MS70 / NGX MS10. He was either uninformed or misled you by saying it's a <$250 coin. At $250, there would be at minimum a 20% margin in it for him - that's a lot for a common, liquid coin.
To be clear, he wasn't trying to buy my coin. His viewpoint was that he had several raw 2021 Peace dollars that he grades at MS70 and he has no buyers for them at $125.
Now that I did my research and others agree my coin is worth $300 minimum, I am contemplating buying his coins to send off to be graded. I will ask him to put his money where his mouth is and offer me a money back guarantee if NGC grades them lower than MS70.🤣😂
Raw 2021 peace dollars sell for ~$240 on eBay. PM his name. I will buy every single one he has at $125 provided they are not visibly damaged/impaired.
The 2023's are a different story, so hopefully there is nothing lost in translation.
@BStrauss3 said:
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
Just to clarify I wasn’t pointing out that it was unusual or bad for the VB offer to be lower than full market price as their buy backs are also a profit avenue. I was more suggesting that I was surprised to see Red Core coins that have an IO/BIN price very similar to the original purchase price of product itself. (and I will admit I’ve not done much research on the product)
I just would have thought that there would be a bigger upside swing for all of the 11-12% of “lucky openers”. I’ve done no math or anything to figure out the actual cost/profit ratios with expenses taken into consideration, I was just a little surprised that a Red Core coin offered could amount to basically a break even after taxes, shipping, etc.
I agree with you. When I saw it was a coveted red core my immediate thought was big WINNER!🤣😂
I was disappointed when I saw the $250 offer and then my LCS owner (who is a friend) mocked me and said it wasn't even close to being worth $250.
Fortunately he is wrong so that makes me feel a little better.😂🤣
More importantly, I am happy that we are finally able to discuss VaultBox.😎
Hopefully others will be willing to share their results.🤞
Not sure your LCS owner is a much of a "friend".
He definitely is a good friend and like true friends we don't agree on everything but can shake hands, agree to disagree and move on without continuing to argue. For the record he is NOT a fan of VB and will never be one.😂🤣
We are like most members on here that can do the same but unfortunately not all members on here can follow the same rule.😉
You should be able to easily net $300 after fees on eBay for 2021 Peace dollar in NGC MS70 / NGX MS10. He was either uninformed or misled you by saying it's a <$250 coin. At $250, there would be at minimum a 20% margin in it for him - that's a lot for a common, liquid coin.
To be clear, he wasn't trying to buy my coin. His viewpoint was that he had several raw 2021 Peace dollars that he grades at MS70 and he has no buyers for them at $125.
Now that I did my research and others agree my coin is worth $300 minimum, I am contemplating buying his coins to send off to be graded. I will ask him to put his money where his mouth is and offer me a money back guarantee if NGC grades them lower than MS70.🤣😂
Your friend must not be that good of a dealer if he can’t sell 2021 Peace raw for $125. There were people on the BST offer way more than that.
@bigjpst said:
I watched a bunch of unboxing lives on whatnot. Most sold around $320-$340 but as time went on I started seeing $400+ then even some as much as $500. Of course only a small handful of red core. I didn’t see any of the big hits pulled.
One dealer did a dozen or so by opening the box live and not showing coin just core color. Then he let the bidding go. Black core slabs were still bid up to around $200. The one red I saw him pull bid up to about $800. IMO people bidding $200 knowing they were only getting a black core and that the coin was likely worth $50-$150 suggests there is some sort of collector for these slabs. Or, people thought that the higher end black cores were worth more than they are and still thought they had a chance to make money
I see the VB as being a net good for the hobby. It brings in new interest. I don’t see it as a lot different than people buying mint products hoping for a good flip. Or opportunity to make a bit of money to buy what they like. The only thing I didn’t really like was the over hyping of loser coins after people bid $300 and winning a 2012 proof ASE. Sure you don’t want to kick people that just lost a bet, but it was a bit weird to watch.
I bought a couple at MSRP.
I never really liked selling sealed boxes of anything myself except to other dealers, so I’ll probably open mine and take the lumps or wins. Haven’t decided yet.
What you are describing begs the question -- are there really that many stupid people on Whatnot, or were you just watching a bunch of shills bidding up crap in an attempt to snare a sucker? Congratulating people for buying a 2012 proof ASE for $300 strongly suggests the latter. It's not a crime, if this is what people choose to do with their money, but it's odd to see this level of interest in this among the relatively more sophisticated collectors that tend to populate this forum.
Couple of points.
Some of the bidders were other sellers on whatnot for sure. So who knows. Maybe some shilling going on. Doubt it. I think that would sour more people to the platform and I'm sure Whatnot would step in if people found out. Maybe they bought into thier own hype.
The congratulating was being done by a few sellers for what it seems as an attempt to console the buyers at $300+ that ended up with a $50 coin.
Calling the bidders or buyers of these unsophisticated or stupid is what's wrong with the hobby in general. You don't like it so everyone who does is stupid or not as sophisticated as you are. I'm sure there are more people on this forum that bought these than who post here because of the members bashing them and looking down on them.
Truth is, there are nice coins in these boxes. Overpriced? Some for sure. It's a gamble. No more no less. If you've ever purchased a lottery ticket, or stuck a quarter in a slot machine, or purchased a raffle ticket from your local coin club or charity, you have not place calling people who choose to gamble on these stupid.
Who knew that all those free sampes CAC sent out would be selling for $100+ People collect what they like and enjoy the hobby how they like.
We constantly read posts on here about the lack of yound numismatists etc. Well I think we are just looking in the wrong place. Forums like this are not where the young people are frequenting, and when they do, they get run off by us sophisticated collectors.
@bigjpst said:
I watched a bunch of unboxing lives on whatnot. Most sold around $320-$340 but as time went on I started seeing $400+ then even some as much as $500. Of course only a small handful of red core. I didn’t see any of the big hits pulled.
One dealer did a dozen or so by opening the box live and not showing coin just core color. Then he let the bidding go. Black core slabs were still bid up to around $200. The one red I saw him pull bid up to about $800. IMO people bidding $200 knowing they were only getting a black core and that the coin was likely worth $50-$150 suggests there is some sort of collector for these slabs. Or, people thought that the higher end black cores were worth more than they are and still thought they had a chance to make money
I see the VB as being a net good for the hobby. It brings in new interest. I don’t see it as a lot different than people buying mint products hoping for a good flip. Or opportunity to make a bit of money to buy what they like. The only thing I didn’t really like was the over hyping of loser coins after people bid $300 and winning a 2012 proof ASE. Sure you don’t want to kick people that just lost a bet, but it was a bit weird to watch.
I bought a couple at MSRP.
I never really liked selling sealed boxes of anything myself except to other dealers, so I’ll probably open mine and take the lumps or wins. Haven’t decided yet.
What you are describing begs the question -- are there really that many stupid people on Whatnot, or were you just watching a bunch of shills bidding up crap in an attempt to snare a sucker? Congratulating people for buying a 2012 proof ASE for $300 strongly suggests the latter. It's not a crime, if this is what people choose to do with their money, but it's odd to see this level of interest in this among the relatively more sophisticated collectors that tend to populate this forum.
Couple of points.
Some of the bidders were other sellers on whatnot for sure. So who knows. Maybe some shilling going on. Doubt it. I think that would sour more people to the platform and I'm sure Whatnot would step in if people found out. Maybe they bought into thier own hype.
The congratulating was being done by a few sellers for what it seems as an attempt to console the buyers at $300+ that ended up with a $50 coin.
Calling the bidders or buyers of these unsophisticated or stupid is what's wrong with the hobby in general. You don't like it so everyone who does is stupid or not as sophisticated as you are. I'm sure there are more people on this forum that bought these than who post here because of the members bashing them and looking down on them.
Truth is, there are nice coins in these boxes. Overpriced? Some for sure. It's a gamble. No more no less. If you've ever purchased a lottery ticket, or stuck a quarter in a slot machine, or purchased a raffle ticket from your local coin club or charity, you have not place calling people who choose to gamble on these stupid.
Who knew that all those free sampes CAC sent out would be selling for $100+ People collect what they like and enjoy the hobby how they like.
We constantly read posts on here about the lack of yound numismatists etc. Well I think we are just looking in the wrong place. Forums like this are not where the young people are frequenting, and when they do, they get run off by us sophisticated collectors.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but with all respect, paying $200 for something the world KNOWS is worth between $50-150 certainly does imply a level of unsophistication or stupidity. Or shilling.
I think it's shilling, and that Whatnot is even less well policed than eBay, so it's far from impossible. But it's not a gamble anymore once the black core is revealed.
These slabs alone are not collector items worth $100 in their own right. At least not now, if they ever were.
These slabs alone are not collector items worth $100 in their own right. At least not now, if they ever were.
This is the unknown. From what I gather, Vaultbox is doing a collection so there may be some sort of registry ish forming. They seem to be trying to build more of a two way market for these items.
These slabs alone are not collector items worth $100 in their own right. At least not now, if they ever were.
This is the unknown. From what I gather, Vaultbox is doing a collection so there may be some sort of registry ish forming. They seem to be trying to build more of a two way market for these items.
Okay, but where are the buyers at $100+ over any price guide, other than Whatnot, if they are real buyers?
Whatever they are trying to set up, they are not pulling a JA by establishing a two-way market for their coins at prices that establish a premium for the slabs. We know that much from their $250 bid for a red core 2021 MS70 Peace Dollar. They are only selling sealed boxes at prices that implies such a premium.
@bigjpst said:
I watched a bunch of unboxing lives on whatnot. Most sold around $320-$340 but as time went on I started seeing $400+ then even some as much as $500. Of course only a small handful of red core. I didn’t see any of the big hits pulled.
One dealer did a dozen or so by opening the box live and not showing coin just core color. Then he let the bidding go. Black core slabs were still bid up to around $200. The one red I saw him pull bid up to about $800. IMO people bidding $200 knowing they were only getting a black core and that the coin was likely worth $50-$150 suggests there is some sort of collector for these slabs. Or, people thought that the higher end black cores were worth more than they are and still thought they had a chance to make money
I see the VB as being a net good for the hobby. It brings in new interest. I don’t see it as a lot different than people buying mint products hoping for a good flip. Or opportunity to make a bit of money to buy what they like. The only thing I didn’t really like was the over hyping of loser coins after people bid $300 and winning a 2012 proof ASE. Sure you don’t want to kick people that just lost a bet, but it was a bit weird to watch.
I bought a couple at MSRP.
I never really liked selling sealed boxes of anything myself except to other dealers, so I’ll probably open mine and take the lumps or wins. Haven’t decided yet.
What you are describing begs the question -- are there really that many stupid people on Whatnot, or were you just watching a bunch of shills bidding up crap in an attempt to snare a sucker? Congratulating people for buying a 2012 proof ASE for $300 strongly suggests the latter. It's not a crime, if this is what people choose to do with their money, but it's odd to see this level of interest in this among the relatively more sophisticated collectors that tend to populate this forum.
Couple of points.
Some of the bidders were other sellers on whatnot for sure. So who knows. Maybe some shilling going on. Doubt it. I think that would sour more people to the platform and I'm sure Whatnot would step in if people found out. Maybe they bought into thier own hype.
The congratulating was being done by a few sellers for what it seems as an attempt to console the buyers at $300+ that ended up with a $50 coin.
Calling the bidders or buyers of these unsophisticated or stupid is what's wrong with the hobby in general. You don't like it so everyone who does is stupid or not as sophisticated as you are. I'm sure there are more people on this forum that bought these than who post here because of the members bashing them and looking down on them.
Truth is, there are nice coins in these boxes. Overpriced? Some for sure. It's a gamble. No more no less. If you've ever purchased a lottery ticket, or stuck a quarter in a slot machine, or purchased a raffle ticket from your local coin club or charity, you have not place calling people who choose to gamble on these stupid.
Who knew that all those free sampes CAC sent out would be selling for $100+ People collect what they like and enjoy the hobby how they like.
We constantly read posts on here about the lack of yound numismatists etc. Well I think we are just looking in the wrong place. Forums like this are not where the young people are frequenting, and when they do, they get run off by us sophisticated collectors.
These slabs alone are not collector items worth $100 in their own right. At least not now, if they ever were.
This is the unknown. From what I gather, Vaultbox is doing a collection so there may be some sort of registry ish forming. They seem to be trying to build more of a two way market for these items.
Okay, but where are the buyers at $100+ over any price guide, other than Whatnot, if they are real buyers?
Whatever they are trying to set up, they are not pulling a JA by establishing a two-way market for their coins at prices that establish a premium for the slabs. We know that much from their $250 bid for a red core 2021 MS70 Peace Dollar. They are only selling sealed boxes at prices that implies such a premium.
My reference was to CACG sample slabs and any sample slab for that matter with a .25c coin in them selling for hundreds of dollars. Sorry if that wasn't clear. The two way mareket they offer is a floor not a premium, but they are trying to encourage people to build collections. Fill holes with just VB slabs. That is what I meant by registry ish. Its still early. Maybe this will peter out, maybe it will instill a new fire in the hobby.
@NJCoin said:
It's meant for non-collectors to turn their lottery ticket into cold, hard cash, rather than as an actual selling outlet for anyone reading this.
Nothing peeves me more than seeing a pile of unscratched scratch-off tickets on the CoinStar next to the lottery machine. Isn't scratching supposed to be the fun part? All they do is buy the ticket and show the code to the scanner.
Where is the fun in that?
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
These slabs alone are not collector items worth $100 in their own right. At least not now, if they ever were.
This is the unknown. From what I gather, Vaultbox is doing a collection so there may be some sort of registry ish forming. They seem to be trying to build more of a two way market for these items.
Okay, but where are the buyers at $100+ over any price guide, other than Whatnot, if they are real buyers?
Whatever they are trying to set up, they are not pulling a JA by establishing a two-way market for their coins at prices that establish a premium for the slabs. We know that much from their $250 bid for a red core 2021 MS70 Peace Dollar. They are only selling sealed boxes at prices that implies such a premium.
My reference was to CACG sample slabs and any sample slab for that matter with a .25c coin in them selling for hundreds of dollars. Sorry if that wasn't clear. The two way mareket they offer is a floor not a premium, but they are trying to encourage people to build collections. Fill holes with just VB slabs. That is what I meant by registry ish. Its still early. Maybe this will peter out, maybe it will instill a new fire in the hobby.
Thanks for the clarification. But, a "floor" that is not fixed, and is below the market, is not really a floor at all. It is nothing more than a convenience for non-collectors to cash in their ticket after playing the game.
@NJCoin said:
It's meant for non-collectors to turn their lottery ticket into cold, hard cash, rather than as an actual selling outlet for anyone reading this.
Nothing peeves me more than seeing a pile of unscratched scratch-off tickets on the CoinStar next to the lottery machine. Isn't scratching supposed to be the fun part? All they do is buy the ticket and show the code to the scanner.
Where is the fun in that?
There is none. Unlike Freddie, who apparently enjoys the chase, and the drama involved in publicizing and debating every aspect of one particular game of chance right here, those folks are just degenerate gamblers feeding an urge, or a compulsion, with a very low expected return due to the microscopic chance to make a score.
Just like scratch tickets. Although, with scratch tickets, there are complete losing tickets that are worthless.
Ever go to a casino?? Gambling is a huge addiction and VB is just gambling with graded coins. Some of us gamble, some collect coins, and some do both. Sure, it's not for everyone...take it or leave it.
@Onastone said:
Just like scratch tickets. Although, with scratch tickets, there are complete losing tickets that are worthless.
Ever go to a casino?? Gambling is a huge addiction and VB is just gambling with graded coins. Some of us gamble, some collect coins, and some do both. Sure, it's not for everyone...take it or leave it.
True. But, the degenerate gambler, not even scratching off the scratch off, and just handing over their money and taking the loss, really has a problem.
Who needs that in numismatics? Other than separating people from their money, what's the point of combining gambling with coin collecting? Particularly in a manner in which the game is not externally supervised or regulated.
In the beginning, I found the marketing to be more than a little misleading, with several online influencers pulling winners before the official on sale date, and I think some folks got pulled in as a result. We are well past that now, so anyone who wants to play should have at it.
As for me, I eat and I poop, but I don't feel the need to combine them at the same time and in the same place. I reserve my gambling for Vegas, AC, or online sports betting, rather than lining Mr. Minshull's pockets. And I reserve my overpriced modern purchases for the US Mint. I can walk and chew gum, and don't feel the need to combine coin collecting and games of chance in a single, rip-off experience. As you said, YMMV.
These slabs alone are not collector items worth $100 in their own right. At least not now, if they ever were.
This is the unknown. From what I gather, Vaultbox is doing a collection so there may be some sort of registry ish forming. They seem to be trying to build more of a two way market for these items.
Okay, but where are the buyers at $100+ over any price guide, other than Whatnot, if they are real buyers?
Whatever they are trying to set up, they are not pulling a JA by establishing a two-way market for their coins at prices that establish a premium for the slabs. We know that much from their $250 bid for a red core 2021 MS70 Peace Dollar. They are only selling sealed boxes at prices that implies such a premium.
My reference was to CACG sample slabs and any sample slab for that matter with a .25c coin in them selling for hundreds of dollars. Sorry if that wasn't clear. The two way mareket they offer is a floor not a premium, but they are trying to encourage people to build collections. Fill holes with just VB slabs. That is what I meant by registry ish. Its still early. Maybe this will peter out, maybe it will instill a new fire in the hobby.
You are correct! VB just announced on Instagram 3 different prize awards for being the first to own designated VB sets.
These slabs alone are not collector items worth $100 in their own right. At least not now, if they ever were.
This is the unknown. From what I gather, Vaultbox is doing a collection so there may be some sort of registry ish forming. They seem to be trying to build more of a two way market for these items.
Okay, but where are the buyers at $100+ over any price guide, other than Whatnot, if they are real buyers?
Whatever they are trying to set up, they are not pulling a JA by establishing a two-way market for their coins at prices that establish a premium for the slabs. We know that much from their $250 bid for a red core 2021 MS70 Peace Dollar. They are only selling sealed boxes at prices that implies such a premium.
My reference was to CACG sample slabs and any sample slab for that matter with a .25c coin in them selling for hundreds of dollars. Sorry if that wasn't clear. The two way mareket they offer is a floor not a premium, but they are trying to encourage people to build collections. Fill holes with just VB slabs. That is what I meant by registry ish. Its still early. Maybe this will peter out, maybe it will instill a new fire in the hobby.
You are correct! VB just announced on Instagram 3 different prize awards for being the first to own designated VB sets.
Here is an example of one of them:
They've been posting "bounties" on their website since at least VB2. [I wasn't looking before then.]
It's at least as fun as registry sets, isn't it?
And, some of those coins are legitimately "scarce" - in that holder, of course!
I don't play the set game. I don't even gamble that much. But I can see how it might appeal to some people. LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
It's supposed to be fun, after all...isn't it? Even "stupid" people are allowed to have fun, aren't they?
@NJCoin said:
It's meant for non-collectors to turn their lottery ticket into cold, hard cash, rather than as an actual selling outlet for anyone reading this.
Nothing peeves me more than seeing a pile of unscratched scratch-off tickets on the CoinStar next to the lottery machine. Isn't scratching supposed to be the fun part? All they do is buy the ticket and show the code to the scanner.
Where is the fun in that?
Actually, I think the fun is in dreaming of winning. So you really have to carry them around, completely untouched, for a few days just dreaming about what the $10 will mean to you.
@NJCoin said:
True. But, the degenerate gambler, not even scratching off the scratch off, and just handing over their money and taking the loss, really has a problem.
Scratching a card being fun is the cover they use to exploit gambling addicts. Scratchers aren't fun they are boring. They don't print "No $" scratchers for kids because scratchers aren't a fun game.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
@NJCoin said:
True. But, the degenerate gambler, not even scratching off the scratch off, and just handing over their money and taking the loss, really has a problem.
Scratching a card being fun is the cover they use to exploit gambling addicts. Scratchers aren't fun they are boring. They don't print "No $" scratchers for kids because scratchers aren't a fun game.
Kids would absolutely play them. In fact, 10 seconds of searching "scratch of games for kids" would actually show you the facts. That's not a much fun as making them up, of course.
@jmlanzaf said:
Kids would absolutely play them. In fact, 10 seconds of searching "scratch of games for kids" would actually show you the facts. That's not a much fun as making them up, of course.
Do you personally have fond memories of scratching kids scratchers or are you just being obstinate?
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
@jmlanzaf said:
Actually, I think the fun is in dreaming of winning. So you really have to carry them around, completely untouched, for a few days just dreaming about what the $10 will mean to you.
Schroedinger's lottery ticket.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
The bounty program seemed like a way to get people to buy multiple VB boxes, it doesn't seem possible to actually collect a whole bounty set. The odds are just really long.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
The bounty program seemed like a way to get people to buy multiple VB boxes, it doesn't seem possible to actually collect a whole bounty set. The odds are just really long.
I don't think it's designed to get people to buy more boxes because they announced it today not day of sale.
@jmlanzaf said:
Kids would absolutely play them. In fact, 10 seconds of searching "scratch of games for kids" would actually show you the facts. That's not a much fun as making them up, of course.
Do you personally have fond memories of scratching kids scratchers or are you just being obstinate?
I have recent memories of just giving kids stickers. And my siblings and I loved them at the school fair in primary school.
Given that they exist and are sold, do you have market research showing that children don't like scratchers, or are you just engaging your imagination?
Comments
Why would you expect the VB IO to match current pricing? They're in it to make a profit.
If you sold it on fleaBay for $300, what would you clear after fees?
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Just to clarify I wasn’t pointing out that it was unusual or bad for the VB offer to be lower than full market price as their buy backs are also a profit avenue. I was more suggesting that I was surprised to see Red Core coins that have an IO/BIN price very similar to the original purchase price of product itself. (and I will admit I’ve not done much research on the product)
I just would have thought that there would be a bigger upside swing for all of the 11-12% of “lucky openers”. I’ve done no math or anything to figure out the actual cost/profit ratios with expenses taken into consideration, I was just a little surprised that a Red Core coin offered could amount to basically a break even after taxes, shipping, etc.
I agree with you. When I saw it was a coveted red core my immediate thought was big WINNER!🤣😂
I was disappointed when I saw the $250 offer and then my LCS owner (who is a friend) mocked me and said it wasn't even close to being worth $250.
Fortunately he is wrong so that makes me feel a little better.😂🤣
More importantly, I am happy that we are finally able to discuss VaultBox.😎
Hopefully others will be willing to share their results.🤞
You are correct that if it sells on Ebay for only $300 then the VB offer of $250 is competitive.
However it appears the coin will sell for more than $300 based on Ebay completed auctions. Unless no one likes the VB 10 label vs. the MS70 label.
That is the unknown factor since none have been listed for sale yet.😉
That is a great suggestion but for now I am going to keep it. I will be watching Ebay to see if someone sells one.😎
I agree. Not a huge hit. Kinda surprised it is a red core but maybe the red cores start at a value equal to or greater than the cost of a box.🤔
That has been the case with the other series. The number of BIG WINNERS has always been only a couple percent. The bottom of the red core hits all had values of only 20% or so above the purchase price. [Not accounting, of course, for whatever label premium exists. ]
I’m glad that you were able to get a red core Freddie but yeah I also didn’t really internalize that the red core values started out just above break even.
I like that red core and find it attractive not that I would pay extra for it if were offered as an option.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Congrats!! Will you be changing your moniker to RedCoreFreddie ? Great getting a Red Core, but as others have pointed out, not all red cores have the same value...still cool though.
Nope! I earned these bars!😂🤣
Also unclear is what is the motivation behind the instant offers... this is the only value-point I've seen on red-core. And despite what we usually do on these boards (generalize a 2nd order derivative trend line from one data point)...
The one I bought off fleaBay had an instant offer above the regular selling price, putting a price floor (not really a value, but) underneath the lower-end merch. I bought it for my slab collection, so I'm not going to flip it to make $10. It does let them ignore / dismiss the value analysis based on NGC's price guide.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I've seen a lot of you tube videos of people saying the modern dollars took away from the attractiveness to buy series 4. Who wants to buy a vault box just to get an American silver eagle. However, it seems series 5 will be better. They will have commemoratives from what I heard. Hoping they will be classic and not modern.
On eBay live, pinhust coins was selling sealed series 4 that were going for 285 to 320 range.
Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP
Agreed. Also, I don't like how NGCX has muddied the waters with their 10 point scale for the Morgans and Peace dollars.
I am watching to see if this coin will bring a premium or a discount based on the red core and/or 10 rating vs. Sheldon MS70.
Gonna be interesting to see😎
Not gonna pretend I understand what you mean. You lost me at derivative trend line!🤣😂
The point is to give those who want it an easy, hassle free way to turn it into cash, without having to know coins, create an eBay account and deal with all the issues associated with selling there, give a bid-ask spread to a dealer, etc. It's meant for non-collectors to turn their lottery ticket into cold, hard cash, rather than as an actual selling outlet for anyone reading this. Even the lowest of the low end merch has an established value, so it was never designed to provide an outlet for something that otherwise could not be sold.
The fact that they do it at all is a value-add for non-collectors drawn into the FOMO aspect of VB, and the fact that it's not related to NGC price guide values is fine, since they themselves are usually significantly inflated.
Even more interesting is the fact that Freddie chose to share his prize with us on the board this time, while denying us all the pleasure on VB 3. Speaks volumes regarding what he likely received in VB 3. I wonder just how well he has done since they made it affordable for him to take the plunge, given the fact that he apparently feels this is still worth promoting (discussing 😂) incessantly.
Even though I've never played, and never will, I too thought red core meant something more than not getting totally screwed. Even more evidence for those on the fence that these are crap.
I watched a bunch of unboxing lives on whatnot. Most sold around $320-$340 but as time went on I started seeing $400+ then even some as much as $500. Of course only a small handful of red core. I didn’t see any of the big hits pulled.
One dealer did a dozen or so by opening the box live and not showing coin just core color. Then he let the bidding go. Black core slabs were still bid up to around $200. The one red I saw him pull bid up to about $800. IMO people bidding $200 knowing they were only getting a black core and that the coin was likely worth $50-$150 suggests there is some sort of collector for these slabs. Or, people thought that the higher end black cores were worth more than they are and still thought they had a chance to make money
I see the VB as being a net good for the hobby. It brings in new interest. I don’t see it as a lot different than people buying mint products hoping for a good flip. Or opportunity to make a bit of money to buy what they like. The only thing I didn’t really like was the over hyping of loser coins after people bid $300 and winning a 2012 proof ASE. Sure you don’t want to kick people that just lost a bet, but it was a bit weird to watch.
I bought a couple at MSRP.
I never really liked selling sealed boxes of anything myself except to other dealers, so I’ll probably open mine and take the lumps or wins. Haven’t decided yet.
My Ebay Store
Interesting and thank you for the WhatNot update. The true winners are the WhatNot sellers who are using the VB boxes to draw in viewers to their shows.
Perfect example of FOMO and lack of discipline by the people bidding on these box openings!🙄
What you are describing begs the question -- are there really that many stupid people on Whatnot, or were you just watching a bunch of shills bidding up crap in an attempt to snare a sucker? Congratulating people for buying a 2012 proof ASE for $300 strongly suggests the latter. It's not a crime, if this is what people choose to do with their money, but it's odd to see this level of interest in this among the relatively more sophisticated collectors that tend to populate this forum.
Not sure your LCS owner is a much of a "friend".
He definitely is a good friend and like true friends we don't agree on everything but can shake hands, agree to disagree and move on without continuing to argue. For the record he is NOT a fan of VB and will never be one.😂🤣
We are like most members on here that can do the same but unfortunately not all members on here can follow the same rule.😉
You should be able to easily net $300 after fees on eBay for 2021 Peace dollar in NGC MS70 / NGX MS10. He was either uninformed or misled you by saying it's a <$250 coin. At $250, there would be at minimum a 20% margin in it for him - that's a lot for a common, liquid coin.
"Good friends" don't "agree to disagree" on objective measures like eBay final auction prices. Dealers trying to rip-off unsuspecting customers try to tell people they hope don't know better that a coin worth between $300-400 isn't even worth $250.
Please tell us who this person is, so we can avoid doing business with him. In the meantime, this explains a lot about why you are mesmerized by the VB concept, so I should probably cut you some slack.
To be clear, he wasn't trying to buy my coin. His viewpoint was that he had several raw 2021 Peace dollars that he grades at MS70 and he has no buyers for them at $125.
Now that I did my research and others agree my coin is worth $300 minimum, I am contemplating buying his coins to send off to be graded. I will ask him to put his money where his mouth is and offer me a money back guarantee if NGC grades them lower than MS70.🤣😂
Raw 2021 peace dollars sell for ~$240 on eBay. PM his name. I will buy every single one he has at $125 provided they are not visibly damaged/impaired.
The 2023's are a different story, so hopefully there is nothing lost in translation.
Your friend must not be that good of a dealer if he can’t sell 2021 Peace raw for $125. There were people on the BST offer way more than that.
I have zero interest in VaultBox. Never had any but that's just me and to each their own. I know some that are only interested in VaultBox coins.
Pocket Change Inspector
Couple of points.
Some of the bidders were other sellers on whatnot for sure. So who knows. Maybe some shilling going on. Doubt it. I think that would sour more people to the platform and I'm sure Whatnot would step in if people found out. Maybe they bought into thier own hype.
The congratulating was being done by a few sellers for what it seems as an attempt to console the buyers at $300+ that ended up with a $50 coin.
Calling the bidders or buyers of these unsophisticated or stupid is what's wrong with the hobby in general. You don't like it so everyone who does is stupid or not as sophisticated as you are. I'm sure there are more people on this forum that bought these than who post here because of the members bashing them and looking down on them.
Truth is, there are nice coins in these boxes. Overpriced? Some for sure. It's a gamble. No more no less. If you've ever purchased a lottery ticket, or stuck a quarter in a slot machine, or purchased a raffle ticket from your local coin club or charity, you have not place calling people who choose to gamble on these stupid.
Who knew that all those free sampes CAC sent out would be selling for $100+ People collect what they like and enjoy the hobby how they like.
We constantly read posts on here about the lack of yound numismatists etc. Well I think we are just looking in the wrong place. Forums like this are not where the young people are frequenting, and when they do, they get run off by us sophisticated collectors.
My Ebay Store
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but with all respect, paying $200 for something the world KNOWS is worth between $50-150 certainly does imply a level of unsophistication or stupidity. Or shilling.
I think it's shilling, and that Whatnot is even less well policed than eBay, so it's far from impossible. But it's not a gamble anymore once the black core is revealed.
These slabs alone are not collector items worth $100 in their own right. At least not now, if they ever were.
This is the unknown. From what I gather, Vaultbox is doing a collection so there may be some sort of registry ish forming. They seem to be trying to build more of a two way market for these items.
My Ebay Store
There have been some openings on YouTube !
Okay, but where are the buyers at $100+ over any price guide, other than Whatnot, if they are real buyers?
Whatever they are trying to set up, they are not pulling a JA by establishing a two-way market for their coins at prices that establish a premium for the slabs. We know that much from their $250 bid for a red core 2021 MS70 Peace Dollar. They are only selling sealed boxes at prices that implies such a premium.
Awesome! You nailed it and thank you!😎😎😎
My reference was to CACG sample slabs and any sample slab for that matter with a .25c coin in them selling for hundreds of dollars. Sorry if that wasn't clear. The two way mareket they offer is a floor not a premium, but they are trying to encourage people to build collections. Fill holes with just VB slabs. That is what I meant by registry ish. Its still early. Maybe this will peter out, maybe it will instill a new fire in the hobby.
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Nothing peeves me more than seeing a pile of unscratched scratch-off tickets on the CoinStar next to the lottery machine. Isn't scratching supposed to be the fun part? All they do is buy the ticket and show the code to the scanner.
Where is the fun in that?
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Thanks for the clarification. But, a "floor" that is not fixed, and is below the market, is not really a floor at all. It is nothing more than a convenience for non-collectors to cash in their ticket after playing the game.
There is none. Unlike Freddie, who apparently enjoys the chase, and the drama involved in publicizing and debating every aspect of one particular game of chance right here, those folks are just degenerate gamblers feeding an urge, or a compulsion, with a very low expected return due to the microscopic chance to make a score.
Just like scratch tickets. Although, with scratch tickets, there are complete losing tickets that are worthless.
Ever go to a casino?? Gambling is a huge addiction and VB is just gambling with graded coins. Some of us gamble, some collect coins, and some do both. Sure, it's not for everyone...take it or leave it.
True. But, the degenerate gambler, not even scratching off the scratch off, and just handing over their money and taking the loss, really has a problem.
Who needs that in numismatics? Other than separating people from their money, what's the point of combining gambling with coin collecting? Particularly in a manner in which the game is not externally supervised or regulated.
In the beginning, I found the marketing to be more than a little misleading, with several online influencers pulling winners before the official on sale date, and I think some folks got pulled in as a result. We are well past that now, so anyone who wants to play should have at it.
As for me, I eat and I poop, but I don't feel the need to combine them at the same time and in the same place. I reserve my gambling for Vegas, AC, or online sports betting, rather than lining Mr. Minshull's pockets. And I reserve my overpriced modern purchases for the US Mint. I can walk and chew gum, and don't feel the need to combine coin collecting and games of chance in a single, rip-off experience. As you said, YMMV.
You are correct! VB just announced on Instagram 3 different prize awards for being the first to own designated VB sets.
Here is an example of one of them:
They've been posting "bounties" on their website since at least VB2. [I wasn't looking before then.]
It's at least as fun as registry sets, isn't it?
And, some of those coins are legitimately "scarce" - in that holder, of course!
I don't play the set game. I don't even gamble that much. But I can see how it might appeal to some people. LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
It's supposed to be fun, after all...isn't it? Even "stupid" people are allowed to have fun, aren't they?
Actually, I think the fun is in dreaming of winning. So you really have to carry them around, completely untouched, for a few days just dreaming about what the $10 will mean to you.
Scratching a card being fun is the cover they use to exploit gambling addicts. Scratchers aren't fun they are boring. They don't print "No $" scratchers for kids because scratchers aren't a fun game.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
Kids would absolutely play them. In fact, 10 seconds of searching "scratch of games for kids" would actually show you the facts. That's not a much fun as making them up, of course.
Edited to add pictures:
Do you personally have fond memories of scratching kids scratchers or are you just being obstinate?
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
Schroedinger's lottery ticket.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Nice. Now we are debating the merits of scratch off tickets. 😂🤣
Getting back on topic. There is a huge flaw with the VB Bounty program. What if one of the listed coins get sold back to VB?
That would make the set impossible to collect and win the prize.🙄
The bounty program seemed like a way to get people to buy multiple VB boxes, it doesn't seem possible to actually collect a whole bounty set. The odds are just really long.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
I don't think it's designed to get people to buy more boxes because they announced it today not day of sale.
I have recent memories of just giving kids stickers. And my siblings and I loved them at the school fair in primary school.
Given that they exist and are sold, do you have market research showing that children don't like scratchers, or are you just engaging your imagination?