VaultBox Series 4 Coin
WQuarterFreddie
Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
For those members who are interested in VB 4:
3
WQuarterFreddie
Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
WQuarterFreddie
Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
WQuarterFreddie
Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
WQuarterFreddie
Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
For those members who are interested in VB 4:
Comments
Shoot, I wanted 4 boxes - guess I'll have to pass...
I don’t have a problem with vaultbox, but it seems like it ran its course and now it’s getting lamer.
“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”
― Abraham Lincoln
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
You can buy 1 of mine at cost. So I guess you're back in.
My conscience wouldn't allow that. What about all the other people that don't have any special connections? What about all of us who can't buy 4 boxes just because we don't own two houses?
It smacks of elitism - nobody should have to buy a second house just for the privilege of purchasing an additional box...
Kind of intriguing. Like buying a Lotto ticket or a box of Forest Gump's Choclates. Sounds like a fair price.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
This wasn’t in the original snap shot from @WQuarterFreddie but the website now has this extra mention:
Debuting NGCX 10-Point Grading for Vintage Morgan and Peace Dollars
Maybe it’s the SNL grumpy old man persona in me wanting to come out but I’m not sure I like the idea of the NGCX grading scale with non-modern coins.
Marketplace will love that clarity.
Conversation with long time Morgan collector:
"Hey I just picked up a Mogan 18xx in NGCX6."
Morgan collector: "So what, I have a VG8, they aren't hard to find in the lower grades."
FWIW, it appears that NGC broke the NGCX rules for VB4.
The NGCX FAQ page still says the following:
Source: https://www.ngccoin.com/specialty-services/ngcx-10-point-grading-scale/
Could this be a one-time exception for VB, or does it signal a policy shift for non-moderns? Stay tuned.
Edited to Add:
I called NGC CS, and inquired (i.e., exception, or policy change). The rep promised to follow-up with me. If I get a response, I will post it here.
@lilolme answered this question by posting a NGC news article here.
If it’s an exception it could add perceived value in the eyes of some collectors.
.
I am reading a change but a limited change. Only select dealers (found on the Q&A page). Do others read it the same?
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/12173/morgan-peace-vintage-dollars/
https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023
Excellent find. Select submitters, and select coins. Thanks for sharing it.
As an aside, your link also includes a handy NGCX to Sheldon conversion table.
The X would make it clear
I liked the word lamer up above in another post. Kinda psyched to start sprinkling that into my conversations from time to time.
Not conversations about vault box though, cause I've never had any.
Chuffy is also a good word.
Interesting business strategy to embrace multiple grading standards.
Certainly will keep the message boards humming.
Yeah. They should have stayed with the NGCX.
They must have discovered that most box buyers were traditional coin buyers.
Updates from the website. The entire VB4 coin list is now available as well:
5 coins worth more than the price of the box in the whole series? What the heck, people play the lotto with a Billion to One odds (Just a generalization)
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
That is not all the red core hits. Please don't tell falsehoods.
AHH! So I knew you were part of this -
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
No. I'm not part of anything. Another falsehood. But if you go to the website, they have a complete list of all the coins: the winners and the losers.
Yeah. I'm a real insider. I know how to use the internet.
https://vaultbox.com/distribution/series4/
Chuffy? Lol haven't heard that jaunt in a long time
These have been appearing for pretty cheap recently
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
I think that this is an "Ultra Breaks", as opposed to a "Vault Box".
What you posted is the most common UB label for the Morgan MS release. IOW, it was not one of the "winners".
There were 267 of these base labels. In contrast, there were 30 of the "Gold Rush", and 3 of the "Infinity" labels. Reference
We have done real well > @RiveraFamilyCollect said:
Wrong thread. You posted Ultra Breaks
But it is interesting. Thar price is below issue price for the MorgN raw.
You should know better! This is still a live auction price. Only COMPLETED Ebay sales reflect current market prices. 🙄
sigh...sure, I missed the time remaining in the photo. I don't know how I'm going to live with myself.
I received an email from NGC on Friday announcing the latest release from their partner VB. I thought NGC just slabbed coins. I’m sure that’s what I was told in the previous vaporized threads.
I asked my wife “what to you think would happen if I walked into McDonald’s and announced that Burger King has a 2 for $5 special?”
She said it would be rude to promote a competitor’s product.
NGC is contracted to slab the coins and fill the boxes. Period.
You might notice banner ads on this very page advertising for Legends, GC, Rinkor or others. None of those are directly affiliated with PCGS. . VB could probably buy a banner ad on this page, if they wanted. It's advertising, not a corporate merger.
I actually got a VB ad on FB the other day. I assume that means that Facebook (Meta) bought VaultBox?
Did your wife point out the major flaw in your analogy? VB is not a slabbing company and, therefore, not a competitor of NGC. The parallel metaphor would be walking into McDonald's and seeing an advertisement for Coca-cola...which actually happens!!!
You promote yourself as being everything Ebay and would be the first to jump on someone who made the same error.
When called out you pretend not to care....admit it. You have been humbled!🤣😂
I guess the better analogy is to go over on the NGC boards and see if there are threads promoting the PCGS/Ultra Breaks partnership.
I never promote myself as everything anything. I also don't think I jump on anyone.
When I start caring about minor errors, my progress ceases. Perfection is a path not a destination. We succeed by successive failures.
Whatever you want to think or say...
There are NGC coins all over this forum. There are probably PCGS coins all over that forum.
Pass for me.
Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP
Banner ad is a little different from direct e-mail marketing, but, sure, whatever. VB isn't merely advertising its product on the NGC forum. Probably because it wouldn't actually hit too many eyeballs, but that's another discussion for another day.
To say that VB is merely selling NGC product is more than a little disingenuous, given the NGC branding on the NGC sealed boxes, and now the NGC e-mails from NGC promoting the product. And you know this. So why argue every single bit of minutiae involving this transparent enterprise devoting to separating the ill informed compulsive gamblers among us from their money?
And, even your McDonald's correction of @PhillyJoe's post was flawed. The better reference would be to Heinz ketchup, which was actually pulled from McDonald's stores worldwide when the private equity firm that owned Heinz bought Burger King (or was it the other way around? Doesn't matter!). Not because Heinz, a separate business from both McDonald's and Burger King, refused to sell to McDonald's. But because McDonald's refused to support a company owned by a company that owned Burger King. See the similarity?
All these years later, the ownership of both Heinz and Burger King has changed, but you still cannot get Heinz ketchup at McDonald's. Compare that to how gracious Collectors Universe has been in indulging all of this discussion of this unregulated lottery that is only tangentially related to numismatics, and has nothing at all to do with PCGS.
Ultra breaks and Vault boxes are so related they can be talked about in either thread.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
Sold out as of 12:30.. in stock for only 30 minutes
David Schwager published a spreadsheet (through IG) of estimated valuations based on the list published by VB.
MSRP: $229
ROI = 82.5%
Lottery such as Powerball tends to be around 50%.
So I mis-spoke in one of the whacked threads when I said VB is worse than the lottery.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
That is so weird that you posted this information. 🤣😂
I literally just got done totaling the coins myself in a different way:
3676 Black core boxes
491 Red core boxes
4167 total boxes
11.79% chance of getting a Red Core coin
Thank you for the information!
I'm not sure about how these have done on the Whatnot platform but at least on eBay there doesn't seem to be nearly the secondary market popularity for series 4 that was generated for the prior releases. There's currently a BIN listing for $299.95 that is available.
Do you all think this is a sign that interest in these types of products are waning, that it's more a lack of interest in this particular offering or that it's still too early to tell? I suppose there's still good interest overall since they sold out at MSRP in 30 minutes.
My opinion is it is still too early to tell however there are only 3 types of coins offered; Morgans, Peace and ASE dollars.
No gold this time. Much less variety of coins.
Therefore less opportunity to make money flipping these unless you get a red core🤑🤑🤑🤑
I think they are reaching market saturation, these break boxes do not have universal appeal. With each new wave more people who want the product get it at retail. No need to pay a scalper by the 4th release wave.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
That remains to be seen. Most sellers do not have them in hand yet. 2 sold on Ebay yesterday. One for $450 the other for $320.
As documented there are only about 4200 boxes so they are limited and I haven't had the opportunity to view WhatNot sellers prices but most use them to draw in viewers as potential buyers. Great marketing on their part.😎
No doubt there appears to be less after market demand but I believe that is due to no gold and only silver dollars which is an extremely saturated market in my opinion.
Personally I am disappointed in this series because of that issue.
Time will tell....🤔
I agree, the no gold thing was a big detractor. Being able to win gold is going to be a huge draw. The series 3 came with a goldback and used Sheldon scale. Both of those could have helped with the hype for series 3.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
Ok. I am going to take a chance that we can have a civil discussion about my coin.😂🤣
I got this coin today out of my VB Series 4 box and my LCS is saying it is not even worth the VB offer of $250. Not even close. I disagreed and did my research.
Recent Ebay completed sale for an NGC MS70 is over $300. The 100th anniversary and FDOI labels sell for even more. Currently there are none of my coins listed on Ebay although there are 30 released in VB series 4 graded NGCX 10.
What say you? Please keep it on topic. We have been able to keep this thread alive for over 3 weeks now!😎
Looks like even ANACs 70s sell for $300+ on eBay. PCGS and NGC closer to $400.
Not sure if the NGX is worth anything for VB. You already took the gamble on the VB why not run an auction starting at .99c on eBay and see where it lands.
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I don't dislike VB like some, and it looks like a nice coin if you collect moderns. However, I'm a little surprised that a 2021 Peace Dollar is considered one of the red core hits. You definitely got your money's worth, but it doesn't really look like a huge score IMHO.
Edited for typo.
Philippians 4:4-7
I don’t dislike the vault box concept either, as I can see it’s appeal to a new type of buyer, which in turn is a new avenue to possibly creating collectors from different “circles” who otherwise may never have found coins on their own. With that said, I also am a little surprised that a 2021 Peace would be in a red holder. Looking at the numbers above, Freddie seemed to have figured out that 11.79% chance of receiving a Red Core coin. I would have thought that all the red core pieces would offer a better return than an offer of $250. Yes, it’s a profit and it seems that price may be lower than current market expectations.
I guess I would have expected that 1/10 of the coins selected for the Red Core would all have a stronger BIN offer from Valutbox. Hopefully nobody jumps on this as being negative, because that is not my intention at all, genuinely curious what others think. There is good information and discussions in these threads.