What is your Definition of a Tire Kicker?
Cougar1978
Posts: 8,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
Many who setup at shows define one as somebody who asks a price on an item, the seller quotes a price and then the potential customer walks away without purchasing or making an offer (counter offer).
Coins & Currency
3
Comments
Sounds like informed shopping to me.
If the dealer's quoted price is a lot more than I'm willing to spend, I won't make a counter offer.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
I've walked when the seller stated a "to infinity and beyond" starting price. The seller is the tire kicker, not the customer.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Have the prices visible and you eliminate most of that interaction.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
If the people coming in the bourse room aren’t asking prices it can be a sign they are broke.
I do have prices on collector raw material which is mostly stuff under $50 and even then negotiable.
Another factor other dealers will undercut you if prices visible. Mike a mentor who specialized in slabbed Peace Dollars (decades ago) had prices on back of slab to block that plus let buyer know he had same price for everybody.
Then maybe the dealer should just put price stickers on the front of the slab? 🤷♂️
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
A-GREE !!
Reluctance to at least ... indicate ....a price (which MAY be a starting thing) is a table that is only there to either show off a "collection" or BUY ONLY !!!
It's a dumb thing to do.
It drives off even the serious buyers.
If they truly interested they will ask a price. If not happening likely indication imo people coming in bourse room are broke. Or Additionally many seeking some specific item / type.
Your "broke" assumption is ludicrous. Sometimes people don't bother asking because an attitude is detected or the coins displayed are obviously overgraded, cleaned or have other issues. I also walk if someone has stacks and stacks of coins all thrown on top of each other in a case and the dealer acts like a hemorrhoid busted if you ask to see something in the case.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Someone who kicks tires.
No matter the industry, a tire kicker by definition is someone who comes to look and doesn't intend to buy.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
If I ask “how much is such and such coin” and I’m quoted a price I think is ridiculously high I thank the dealer and move along. There’s no point in negotiating. If he’s asking $800 for a $400 coin what am I supposed to do, counter at $300?
The dealer is the tire kicker, not me.
I don’t mind is they show a price or not. Sometimes it is good to strike up a conversation for many reasons. The dealer may have something not shown or back at the shop that meets your desire. It also provides the dealers with some feedback about his pricing. Conversation is good as you can learn many things otherwise not known.
I am willing to negotiate on anything if the offer is reasonable. If it’s somebody coming up to low ball me / buy at wholesale it should not be any surprise to them if it doesn’t go anywhere. Furthermore when their BS starts it’s time for them to leave.
I might have a few coins selected in case where price sticker on front of slab in red - $5 or 10 pct over cost (non negotiable) just to see if even those will move, help pay show expenses.
I asked a prominent dealer if I could look at one of his coins. The grade of the coin was obstructed in his display case. I looked at the coin for a few seconds, gave it back to him, and thanked him. He then said, “what’s the matter, my coin isn’t good enough for you”. I just walked away rather than engage him in conversation. I was looking for that particular date in a higher grade.
I have asked for many prices and just walked away. The quoted price was way out of line. No need to try to negotiate with someone that I feel is trying to rip me off.
This entire thread is ludicrous. How can anyone (other than the ultra-wealthy) make a decision whether or not to buy ANYTHING if they don't know the price? Are people who visit amazon.com but don't buy anything tire kickers?
When I go to a show I always have a mid-4 figure to low-5 figure budget. I ask the price on items I am interested in. Usually the result is that I feel the item is priced too high, either for my value for that coin or for my budget if it's a high end coin.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
i used to work in retail myself and odd thing is we call those people window shoppers which odd thing is they can either be good for whatever biz you are in or bad depending on your goods and prices and now most have cash but they are not just going to buy right off the bat they want to see what other prices and goods are around and if your goods and prices fit what they want then they buy if not they go somewhere else
i window shop a lot doesn't mean i'm broke just means i'm looking at what is on the market and the prices places have then buy at the best price i think is right
Coins for sake at link below
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOVMv7FZDb2BvqQnSIUKnelz2nhX9TVEMcKHgHm
But then how can they sell a coin for more than the sticker price to unsuspecting buyers?
EDIT: Not that all dealers without price tags do this, most are fair and honest.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
What if the same guy walks to the table next to yours and buys ten coins, all of which are 10x the price of the coin he asked about in your case. Is he still a tire kicker?
I'm looking for what I'm looking for.
I won't waste the dealers time on something else unless it's half price bullion.
Same thing for a car on the road with a for sale sign.
IF no price I assume it's overpriced and move along.
@Downtown1974 said: Have the prices visible and you eliminate most of that interaction.
The reason many dealers don't "price" everything is because the prices change regularly, especially in a hot-market, and that requires changing. For a dealer with a large inventory it's easier to leave the price off the coin(s) and instead have the coded price paid, what they're into a coin for.
When I was a dealer doing shows I would have an occasional buyer come up, pick out 5 or 6 coins and then dicker on the price of each and then ask for a group price and then think about it for a few minutes and then say "I'll have to think about it and I'll come back later". When they walk away it's time to put them all back in the cases, he's not coming back, and that is a tire kicker.
I could agree with that logic for a shop owner who may have inventory in the case for extended periods of time, but when you’re talking about a show that lasts from a day to maybe 3 days, there will not be much fluctuation in that span.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
This is why I love online sales. I get to look at coins at my leisure without someone breathing down my neck. I have an idea of what they want for the coin. I can price/quality shop for hours. If I don't buy, I am the only one who knows/cares. As long as I can return the coin if the photos are bad, I am golden (and I have only returned one coin in my life).
I do not tolerate attitude from dealers at all. I don't care what coin they have - I will tell them where to put that coin (and how deep). I can find another coin.
On the flip side, I will pay more (within reason) to have a great experience. Dealers that get excited to talk about coins see me over and over again. I do this for fun, and I love dealers that are fun (and there are certainly those, too).
Edit Note: Because I shop online so much. I know what is in dealer's inventories. When I go to a big show, I look for those dealers, and map it out. I don't need to know their starting price, because I have that written down already. I just need to see it and toss out my offer. If they accept.... done deal! In this way, I am the opposite of a tire kicker.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
If I see an interesting coin, ask to look at it more closely and discover a problem (e.g. a prominent scratch on the reverse) I’m not going to ask the price because I wouldn’t buy it at any price.
On the other hand, every once in awhile, I will see a coin in a case and know that I am going to buy it before I even look at it more closely or know the asking price. This happens with dealers who stock PQ material.
There are a lot of scenarios in between. I don’t view myself as a tire kicker. I don’t ask to see coins that I can’t afford or have no legitimate interest in (that’s what auction lot viewing is for!
)
This is silly. I'm a dealer. I buy a lot of coins. I buy 90% based on price alone. If I see a table full of unpriced coins, do you expect me to ask you the price on EVERY coin?
No dealer marks price for just one show. A show dealer is as likely to carry inventory for long periods of time as a BM dealer.
@jmlanzaf then you should be prepared when setting up at a show. Isn’t part of running a business keeping track of inventory?
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
I price everything. I agree that people should price things. (See my prior comment.) I'm just saying that inventory duration isn't shorter for a show dealer.
If I ever become a dealer, you bet I'll stay up 'till 3 am labeling the prices of my coins. Saves everyone a lot of trouble.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
I didn’t mean for this to go sideways. Pricing was just an idea of combating the “tire kickers” the OP was referring to.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
Sounds like a used coin/car salesman. They can be aggressive and misleading too.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
never judge a book by it's cover without reading it cause you can make major mistakes in judging a person by what they look like, what they do or don't do and such can lead to major issues
Coins for sake at link below
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOVMv7FZDb2BvqQnSIUKnelz2nhX9TVEMcKHgHm
True. Although I wouldn't suggest that Cougar's definition is the norm. Most folks I know consider "tire kickers" people that repeatedly ask for prices and never buy. I don't know that anyone would apply it to someone based on one coin.
I didn't take it as sideways. Any of the various phrases, "tire kickers". "Looky Lous", etc usually apply to people with a long history of sight- seeing.
What a ridiculous definition.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
When I'm at a coin show, and see a coin that I like, I ask "What is your best price on this coin?" If I think it is too high, I politely thank them for their time, and walk away. I will not waste my time negotiating.
And if I feel that a dealer's prices are consistently high, and in my opinion unreasonable, I will bypass their table at future shows.
I don’t buy this argument (which I’ve heard repeatedly over the years) because if that dealer’s dreck was that “hot”, it would’ve moved itself along the last time/show it was already priced and offered at.
Unless its something like .999 silver bullion, and spot silver is violently swinging $5-$10 daily, that dealer is overpriced to begin with.
Marcus Reeves of the bay area kept a dishpan FULL of gold Dos Pesos in his case.
A tire kicker is the person that asks a price on an item, the seller quotes a price and then the Customer tells the seller they have a similar or better example and then they tell the story behind the coin and the history of the pricing. No intent of buying but more wanting to feel better about what they already have in their collection.
Along with the other comments in the thread, asking for a price is pretty normal part of the process. Often times, I ask for pricing for multiple items from multiple dealers and then it is a decision point on what is the best option between them.
It's easy to price bullion. You just price it at "spot +$x" and then the price moves with the silver market.
Sounds more like a kick in the shins.
Once I was at a show and I stopped to view the $5 Chief note. Dealer handed the note to me. Upon a closer look I returned the note to him and thanked him. There was a price on it, but I declined an offer as I did not like the notes condition. As I walked away he asked ME what I would pay for it. Was a bit of a surprise. Usually one tells the dealer the price he or she has in mind.
Exact same thing happened to me at the spring 2022 Baltimore show approximately 8-10 times. All I did was ask to view coins in the different dealer’s cases, never asked for prices as upon closer inspection I wasn’t overly excited about any of the coins. I thanked them and handed the coins back each time and started walking away. All of them asked what I’d offer for the coins. I gave fair offers on every one of those coins, and ultimately ended up buying zero coins that day. One of the strangest show buying experiences ever for me. Guess I fit the tire kicker definition that day.
I have test driven cars and not bought them... in every other business this type of stuff is considered normal customer behavior. People "shop" for what they want (and they should). I do not understand the entitlement mentality.
In my business I turn myself inside out for my customers and try to treat them like I am dealing with my mom or dad. I understand that they can go elsewhere, so I make it my mission to not allow that to happen. Yes, sometimes it can be exhausting/frustrating... but this is what it means to be in business.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
I never ask for a price quote without intent to purchase. I usually have the money to pay for that purchase. If not I will ask the dealer for a layaway. It's really that simple. Some dealers ask to much and others will work with you. I collect Morgan's and I have a feel for what's things are valued at now. I also have the greysheet app which comes in handy.
Comments to a dealer are not necessary. It's simple if you don't like something about a coin be it price or otherwise, simply say "it's not for me". This avoids all problems and nobody should be upset.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
To be fair, that is where "tire kicker" comes from. It's not necessarily any more or less pejorative than it would be in another business.
The fact is that not all customers are created equally. There are people who stop by, quickly make selections and move on. We love them. There are those that "kick a couple tires" and move on. We neither love nor hate them. There are people who need a lot of attention and hand holding and then ultimately buy something. We like them okay. And there are people who want a lot of attention but are just kicking tires. We don't really like, need or want them. It's not that they are bad people or anything, but they can chew up a lot of time and attention and don't result in a sale.
The last group is the only group of "tire kickers" that most dealers care about. Cougar's definition is too broad. I don't ever mind some one asking a price and moving on. There's 1000 reasons why that could happen and it is not an indicator that the person isn't a serious buyer. I've done that at shows while I was in the middle of spending thousands of dollars. Sometimes you just don't have what I want at a price I want it.
>
I understand what you are saying. I am just built fundamentally differently. I operate under the assumption that I never know when the person will buy, buy more, or go elsewhere. Never once do I assume that the customer will never buy (they buy from me, or from someone else, but they buy). Sometimes I cannot meet my customer's needs, because my solution to their problem does not fully align, and we can eat up a lot of time trying to find that solution. And, once I have the customer, I work even harder to provide the best service post sale (something no coin dealer does). It is important to note that I am not in sales, but in my business - everyone is in sales... and after the sale, everyone is in service. Those that do not like that mentality cannot be in my business. I need people who legitimately care. THAT is the difference between what I am taking about, and what you are talking about.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
A tire kicker is like a window shopper who leaves fingerprints on the glass they're looking through. Except a tire kicker only leaves a footprint on the mind of the numismatist.