@telephoto1 said: The Mint is ridiculous. $900 over spot is a "small premium", apparently.
These guys can't even get 2023 friggin Mint Sets out yet. All they say is Fall 2023.
Respectfully, the "small premium" quote is from a section about bullion, not numismatic items.
So does this mean that an authorized dealer could order 100 bullion palladium eagles for (at the moment) $1265 each? Has any authorized purchaser ever ordered bullion palladium eagles? I don't recall ever seeing any for sale anywhere. I'm sure there would be some retail demand for bullion palladium eagles if they were as available as the Mint's other bullion coins.
[...] Has any authorized purchaser ever ordered bullion palladium eagles? I don't recall ever seeing any for sale anywhere. [...]
It looks like the Mint produced bullion APdE in 2017 and 2021. In a prior post, I provided the base PCGS coin numbers. Here are examples of the (currently out of stock) items at APMEX: 152020 and 242239.
I purchased my 2017 MS palladium eagle from a large dealer after they purchased it from the Mint, in a PCGS first strike MS 70 holder for around $1100.
The enabling legislation for the Palladium eagle (31 U.S. Code § 5112, Section V) makes it clear that it was intended as a bullion coin. The relevant section is titled “Palladium Bullion Investment Coins”, and it says, “The Secretary shall mint and issue the palladium coins described in paragraph (12) of subsection (a) in such quantities as the Secretary may determine to be appropriate to meet demand.”
Clearly this is not happening. The Mint’s website is promoting the palladium eagle as a bullion coin and a “precious metal investment”, yet no bullion version with a modest markup is being produced. Currently the least expensive one on eBay is over $2000. For all practical purposes, the palladium eagle is a limited edition collector’s item rather than, as the Mint describes, a “cost-effective way” to invest in palladium.
“ Secretary may determine to be appropriate to meet demand” is the “out” the United States Mint uses time and time again to produce the quantities they deem appropriate. Doesn’t matter whether you deem it appropriate or not. The Mint would rather produce a higher profitable numismatic coin vs. a bullion coin. Mintage for the bullion Palladium coins were 15,000 in 2017 and another bullion coin wasn’t minted until 2021 when 8,700 were minted as the Secretary deemed appropriate to meet demand. That’s grounds enough to limit production of a bullion coin that has been Net Unprofitable for the Mint on the bullion side…
Currently the web info may indicate 4,562 have been ordered, since currently 1,438 show available.
However sometimes not all 6,000 in the stated maximum start out as available. Either way I think this has a good chance to be the low mintage coin for the series and will not sell out. There are graded 70's available to order for $2,459.
Based on these numbers it appears the "available to order" is short approximately 1000 coins. Late Sunday the available was showing 1350 +/- and sales of 3683 gets us around 5k total. I would assume planchets (acquired or not) not yet minted for sale?
I agree the Burnished finish may not be the "prettiest" version as compared to the Pr or RP, but the amazing coin design literally pops through. This finish is the lowest mintage overall series and possibly by year (TBD for 2023) - this morning = "stocklevel":1400,". I am expecting delivery today -just looking for a quality coin or else I throw it back.
I've posted this image before, love the liquid appearance of it, hard to describe, took me a few shots to obtain the look I was looking for. I found it impossible to illuminate every mm of the devices but I'm not a professional.
@CXD said:
I agree the Burnished finish may not be the "prettiest" version as compared to the Pr or RP, but the amazing coin design literally pops through. This finish is the lowest mintage overall series and possibly by year (TBD for 2023) - this morning = "stocklevel":1400,". I am expecting delivery today -just looking for a quality coin or else I throw it back.
I agree this should be a key or very close to it for the series. Mine above will get mailed for grading today.
I do not see much to prevent a 70. The inner rim edges are not perfect, but they are as struck. The obverse does not have the same finish eye appeal as the reverse, which is sharp and detailed, but no hits are visible in hand.
@MilesWaits said:
I purchased my 2017 MS palladium eagle from a large dealer after they purchased it from the Mint, in a PCGS first strike MS 70 holder for around $1100.
I remember those days, almost bought one, didn’t, regretted it! Haha
That being said, my first Pd Eagle version had Rim damage, so I sent that back to the major dealer and they graciously sent me a new MS70 Eagle without Rim damage!
With the 2023 Gold Liberty I am not willing to play that game (so I sent my back for a refund, and just received said refund) given their slow refund/return policy, so I will wait until I can get a graded version that shows no rim deformation.
23EK 2023 AM EAGLE PALLADIUM UNC 1 OZ 4,253 9/17/2023
Late Sunday Available was about 1087 (1087 + 4253 = 5340) or 660 short of "available to order" # per 6000 mintage.
Comments
Respectfully, the "small premium" quote is from a section about bullion, not numismatic items.
FWIW, this is what the Mint website currently says about bullion APdE:
Source: https://www.usmint.gov/news/consumer-alerts/business-guidelines/authorized-purchaser-program
So does this mean that an authorized dealer could order 100 bullion palladium eagles for (at the moment) $1265 each? Has any authorized purchaser ever ordered bullion palladium eagles? I don't recall ever seeing any for sale anywhere. I'm sure there would be some retail demand for bullion palladium eagles if they were as available as the Mint's other bullion coins.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Per CW, the Mint does not plan to offer any bullion versions in 2023. Link
It looks like the Mint produced bullion APdE in 2017 and 2021. In a prior post, I provided the base PCGS coin numbers. Here are examples of the (currently out of stock) items at APMEX: 152020 and 242239.
I do not know anything about the Mint's strategy specific to bullion APdE. Perhaps someone else can provide some insight.
I purchased my 2017 MS palladium eagle from a large dealer after they purchased it from the Mint, in a PCGS first strike MS 70 holder for around $1100.
The enabling legislation for the Palladium eagle (31 U.S. Code § 5112, Section V) makes it clear that it was intended as a bullion coin. The relevant section is titled “Palladium Bullion Investment Coins”, and it says, “The Secretary shall mint and issue the palladium coins described in paragraph (12) of subsection (a) in such quantities as the Secretary may determine to be appropriate to meet demand.”
Clearly this is not happening. The Mint’s website is promoting the palladium eagle as a bullion coin and a “precious metal investment”, yet no bullion version with a modest markup is being produced. Currently the least expensive one on eBay is over $2000. For all practical purposes, the palladium eagle is a limited edition collector’s item rather than, as the Mint describes, a “cost-effective way” to invest in palladium.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
“ Secretary may determine to be appropriate to meet demand” is the “out” the United States Mint uses time and time again to produce the quantities they deem appropriate. Doesn’t matter whether you deem it appropriate or not. The Mint would rather produce a higher profitable numismatic coin vs. a bullion coin. Mintage for the bullion Palladium coins were 15,000 in 2017 and another bullion coin wasn’t minted until 2021 when 8,700 were minted as the Secretary deemed appropriate to meet demand. That’s grounds enough to limit production of a bullion coin that has been Net Unprofitable for the Mint on the bullion side…
w/e 09/10/2023 Mint sales:
2023 AM EAGLE PALLADIUM PROOF 1 OZ 3,683
Currently the web info may indicate 4,562 have been ordered, since currently 1,438 show available.
However sometimes not all 6,000 in the stated maximum start out as available. Either way I think this has a good chance to be the low mintage coin for the series and will not sell out. There are graded 70's available to order for $2,459.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Based on these numbers it appears the "available to order" is short approximately 1000 coins. Late Sunday the available was showing 1350 +/- and sales of 3683 gets us around 5k total. I would assume planchets (acquired or not) not yet minted for sale?
The burnished uncirculated finish is OK, but the other finishes look much better to me.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
I agree, although, under all circumstances, that eagle looks spectacular!
I agree the Burnished finish may not be the "prettiest" version as compared to the Pr or RP, but the amazing coin design literally pops through. This finish is the lowest mintage overall series and possibly by year (TBD for 2023) - this morning = "stocklevel":1400,". I am expecting delivery today -just looking for a quality coin or else I throw it back.
I've posted this image before, love the liquid appearance of it, hard to describe, took me a few shots to obtain the look I was looking for. I found it impossible to illuminate every mm of the devices but I'm not a professional.
You nailed it, it looks liquid...like if you hold it sideways, it'll spill out!
I agree this should be a key or very close to it for the series. Mine above will get mailed for grading today.
I do not see much to prevent a 70. The inner rim edges are not perfect, but they are as struck. The obverse does not have the same finish eye appeal as the reverse, which is sharp and detailed, but no hits are visible in hand.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
I remember those days, almost bought one, didn’t, regretted it! Haha
Yeah, I hear you Weather!
I went back for one more, just in case. Even at that time it was a gamble. Palladium was considerably lower in price.
That being said, my first Pd Eagle version had Rim damage, so I sent that back to the major dealer and they graciously sent me a new MS70 Eagle without Rim damage!
With the 2023 Gold Liberty I am not willing to play that game (so I sent my back for a refund, and just received said refund) given their slow refund/return policy, so I will wait until I can get a graded version that shows no rim deformation.
23EK 2023 AM EAGLE PALLADIUM UNC 1 OZ 4,253 9/17/2023
Late Sunday Available was about 1087 (1087 + 4253 = 5340) or 660 short of "available to order" # per 6000 mintage.