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I give up... blown out of the water for an 1884 half dollar
ElmerFusterpuck
Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭✭✭
Looks like the market is too strong for me in this part of my registry series. CAC sticker didn't hurt either.
10-4,
Erik
My registry sets
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I feel your pain. I got blown out of the water at HA tonight too. My nuclear bid got out-nucleared lol.
I had to log in to Heritage to see it sold for $2,280. Wholesale bid $950?
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
Dang I'm not well versed in this series but that sure seems like a strong result.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Pricing on 1880s halves and quarters has been unrealistic for a long time, particularly for CAC coins.
I’ve been surprisingly outbid on a number of coins recently where I thought I my bid was quite strong on GC website.
Don’t give up!
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Unless you're playing Everyman Registry and have to stay under MS60, just buy a nice MS63-65 example of this date and be done with it. Competition is fierce for nice XF-AU coins, and also for MS66+ Registry coins, but not in between. The situation is similar for 1880s quarters and halves.
My entire run of 1880s Seated 25c is MS63 to MS67. I wouldn't touch an XF-AU coin at the going rate. There's this argument that nice circs. are harder to find than MS coins, but who cares? Holed Fr-2 coins are even harder to find than XF, so I guess they're worth more?
That XF45 CAC may look great in the photos, but when you put it side by side with an MS63-MS65 coin in person, reality sets in rather quickly. People are literally forgetting that the single most important factor in grading coins is wear.
(*Assuming the coin is gradable, meaning authentic and undamaged)
The XF45 CAC went for $2,280. You'll have to wait a while for an MS63-65 example, but dare I say that a PCGS MS63 will probably sell for less than the XF45 CAC?
This is not the type of coin you want to sell to a dealer!
@rhedden i think part of it may be that people are trying for matched sets? They may not like the look of mid-MS coins next to their vf-xf earlier dates.
Exactly!
Ditto that. I like the matched set approach, but I do have some AU's and a handful of MS coins in my set as well. That 1879 thru 1891 run seems to be tougher than just a few years ago. The 1891 is called "common" but it's not all that easy to find either. The 1884 I posted about looks like a looker!
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
43 are cac stickered out of over 300, so there is a premium on those who passed plus the auction was the right one at the right time.
Between XF-AU there is a total of four CAC stickered examples for this issue, three in XF45 and one at AU55. If you pursue this series in that grade range, and I do, then be prepared for closing bids above, sometimes well above, wholesale prices especially when there is a shortage of stickered examples. Sadly, I totally forgot to set an alarm for this lot but congrats to the new owner.
42 to be exact with 29 being MS and 1 lonely AU55 so that leaves 12 coins left if you want (and can find) a Circ. example.
This is the issue. My seated quarter set is going to be all VF-XF and I'm only interested in those grades. Typically I've been paying around PCGS book or a little more. They're super hard to find and I don't mind paying over book for a nice coin.
A "black beauty!" Dealers may not like them, but some collectors do for the circ cameo look, and as a sign of originality.
It sure beats this raw 1884 (for $750). I was pleased to be able to find an original-looking midgrade coin that might straight-grade. PCGS graded it VF35.
wow 1300 over pcgs value thats crazy someone really needed that coin i wouldnt care if it was cac, fbi, cia, and spca approved i wouldnt pay that for it
"Matched sets" are fun up to a point, but insisting on it just screams OCD to me. Personally, I try to suppress all OCD tendencies I might have while collecting - which is very hard for a lot of us "set builders" to do. The bottom line is that an XF matched set is worth less than an XF set with a few MS coins in it. Very few sets are sold intact when the time comes, and nobody cares whether the set was matched or not once it gets broken up. I guess you can enjoy the consistent TrueViews while you have it up for display in the Registry...
That has been happening a lot lately in auctions.
When you’re collecting for years and the opportunity comes up sometimes you need to pay up. There probably were a few chasing it do to the rarity.
Here mine that was purchased years ago with no bean. Great type set coin looks a lot better in hand.
To each his own. And I do believe in allowing some latitude if set collecting is your goal. If you are too rigid then you may never realize what you set out to do in the first place. That said, if one is building a set in circulated grades then MS coins just don’t work out in many ways. I think we are taking the word “matched” a little too far here. I will say that, almost all the coins I have overpaid for at a given time have proven to become good decisions down the road. Guides are just guides and experience outweighs everything.
Most likely rich collector bidders in bid war.
Part of the fun of assembling a full series set is to capture the series design in various states of preservation... I never have been a fan of the so-called matched set concept.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
….and nobody is asking you to.
Living life with discreet boundaries garners a false sense of security and life without risk isn’t worth living. I could provide you with multiple examples where I went with my gut based on experience and paid what seemed to be stupid money for something and in time has proven to be the best decision I could have made.
Let me play devil's advocate for a moment, just because I'm making things difficult today.
What are you "XF matched set - CAC only" aficionados going to do about the 1870-CC Seated half? A set without an 1870-CC is no fun at all, and it's not a matched set unless every single coin has a bean!
Looks like your entire set is going to have to be AU53 CAC.
AU53? Oh crap, now you can't have an 1871-CC.
I'm doing the same with a Carson City Morgan set, only my requirement is slightly tighter -- VF35-XF45. I'm five coins from completion (bought the first eight I have in less than a month), but I've come to a hard place in the road -- 1881 and 1884. Dozens of these two dates are available in MS, and even a handful in good and perhaps fair, but so far in my short wait, none in my desired grades. 1885 is a super tough one, but I took a chance and offered someone more than they paid for theirs and they accepted.
What's sad is that I have a shot at an 1881, but VF25 falls below my minimum, and I can't bring myself to compromise. I already live with regret for buying a MS64 1885 instead of waiting for a circulated one, and don't want to repeat that mistake.
Not only the 1870-CC but the key itself... 1878-S which has zero in the XF-AU grades. In those cases, you get as close as possible and I'm happy with my 1870-CC but that 1878-S is still elusive.
XF40, WB-2
Please do sir, and my answer is simple. I figured that a VF35 CAC was the best solution.
And while I was at it I thought a matching VF35 CAC Dollar would be the balls!
Already had the 71-CC covered. An XF40 which garnered a bean afterward.
I think you're assuming too narrow standards for "matched set". I suppose some people may want beans but most people couldn't care less. It's about the overall look of the set. The pic below is from an actual Morgan set for sale on ebay and a perfect example of what most people that like "matched sets" are trying to avoid.
Back to the 1884 half which started this thread. I was first offered years ago the beauty posted above by Pickwickjr, but hadn’t yet committed to collecting the last 13 years of series so I passed. When I later decided to indulge myself it was off the table. I bought a nice VG8 in the interim and then the following XF45 came along.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-half-dollars/half-dollars/1884-50c-xf45-pcgs-cac-pcgs-population-12-138-ngc-census-3-79-cdn-700-whsle-bid-for-ngc-pcgs-xf45-mintage-4-4/a/132023-21251.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
I hesitated and stopped bidding on this one and lost it because my brain lock said it was too much deniro, WRONG! So now what does one do? Wait and see what turns up down the road before I die, or pull the trigger on what was in front of my face? Put me on trial then because I am guilty!
Jim Koenigs had a mention of the 78-s Seated 50c in his newsletter on Bust halves today.
"On July 20-21, 2023, Heritage had an important auction on Liberty Seated Halves. The sale of an NGC VG details 1878-S half dollar will be discussed. (53 known)"
Important Sales. Although normally my focus is on Reeded Edge Halves, on July 20-21, 2023, there were several incredible opportunities for Liberty Seated Collectors in a Hetitage Auction. One Lot 3066, was an 1878-S half dollar in NGC VG details that sold for $39,600 (see photo of obverse below
This coin was described as one of 53 known and had a reported mintage of 12,000. In the Gobrecht Journal for Summer 2023, LSCC President, Len Augsburger had a very interesting article “Buy the Best You Can Afford”. In that article, Len pointed out how various rare Liberty Seated (various denominations) had increased in value from 1960 to 2020, showing each step foreach decade. Len said, “Among half dollars, ‘buy the best you can afford’ holds sway untilrunning into the buzzsaw known as the rare 1878-S issue”. He went on to show a table that had1878-S in Good, Fine and UNC that all started out as 1.0 in 1960 and by 2020 the Good had now increased in value by 157.89, the Fine had increased to 128.57 and the UNC had increased to 95.24. So, the Good 1878-S outperformed the UNC 1878-S
I purchased my first 1884 as a nice looking MS62, from the old JJ Teaparty about 15 or 16 years ago. Along the lines of Rhedden's philosophy I thought I might as well buy MS when they are easier to find, nicer to look at, and about the same price, which at the time was just a little under 1K. Then I purchased an amazing colorful high grade MS 1884 example in a very old NGC no line fatty, but I never had the desire to crack it our or cross it over from such a nice holder. My desire to try and have a mostly AU set eventually caught up with me and I found a raw 1884 on Ebay in 2013 for quite a bit less than 1k, and thought it looked nice enough to end up in a holder and PCGS agreed to give it a 55 as pictured below. I still have all three examples and haven't sent any of them to CAC. I suspect that I could significantly expand some of the CAC pops for seated halves if I decided to send them all off. I love the seated halves but some of the new money that has been chasing them the past few years has really made it challenging to upgrade. I might have to find a new series.
Seated Dollar Collection
Just wait until the two known VG8 CAC examples show their faces….
I agree. The toning is too dark. I think the over bidder did you a favor.
I saw two of them at Larry Briggs table but didn't care for either one of them. I'll have to remind myself that shopping for a 78-S is not like shopping for any other date.
Nothing wrong with putting together an AU or XF/AU set. I think JBN has some outstanding seated halves in that range.
As for the coin in the OP, it is too dark in the photo for my taste (which I see Bill Jones just noted). But then it is a slab shot so it might in hand be more appealing.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
It has made it tough….newer and more competition, but the upside has made your older acquisitions skyrocket in value, so all is not bad. Maybe you should just move on to another series and sell your halves to the rest of us vultures.
First thing I thought of was someone went metal detecting in a sewer. Agreed that you dodged a bullet with this coin.
Hi Eric,
The bidders might have done you a favor, as a closer look at the obv shows what appears to be an old faded fingerprint.
Too bad, as the rev is fantastic.
Steve
Money laundering...just like art...
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I was in at until $1551, so it kept going after I dropped out. From doing bidding on multiple Heritage auctions in the past, that coin will not be that dark in hand. Even if it was close to that level, I still like the coin. And that fingerprint barely registers for me and doesn't bother me at all. It would have been a welcome addition to my collection.
This coin may not be for everyone, I get it. But at times it feels like we are pointing out all the faults of a cute puppy: his ears are crooked, more whiskers on the right side than the left, his breath is a bit off, the paws are a bit dirty...
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
I increased the lighting and exposure. It's still a very dark coin.
I like it. It has a touch of granularity and corrosion on the high points and rims but CAC doesn't care about a little corrosion. It was in a corrosive environment (humidity, soft flip?) at one time. Too bad the PCGS pictures are so dark.
IMO, you stopped bidding at the right time. It's nice to see someone do that.
Not really a fan of the coin. Too dark.