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2023 National Thread (Last Batch of Photos added as well as Final Thoughts)
Vagabond
Posts: 552 ✭✭✭✭
So who is going and what are you looking for?
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Vagabond
Posts: 552 ✭✭✭✭
Vagabond
Posts: 552 ✭✭✭✭
Vagabond
Posts: 552 ✭✭✭✭
Comments
I'm bringing the wife, we both have VIP tickets (free stuff!) Going to make a combination, vacation/cards for me/my birthday gift.
Looking for anything Killebrew I don't have. 1964 Bazooka full box with Killebrew is my "White Whale". Not much else I need for the Master set.
Have some items to submit to PSA as well.
Looking for suggestions on a seafood 🦞 restaurant (not too fancy) for a great meal.
I am getting pretty excited!!!! 🥳🤩💥
I'll be there, favorite trip of the year. Looking for anything Staubach, Gary Carter or unopened 1979 Topps football that I don't have.
If you're not wanting something too fancy, try the sushi at the Speedway gas station.
Sorry, just green with envy... have fun and happy hunting.
Mark
I'll be arriving on Thursday morning in Chicago just in time before doors open. Then all day Friday and leaving Saturday afternoon and heading back home.
Planning on picking up a:
1 - 2003 Topps Chrome Lebron
2 - 1984 Fleer Update Clemens
I'll also be posting here a bunch of photos as well as a link to a walkthrough video that I'll do perhaps on Friday.
Wednesday to Saturday. Subbing some items just not sure to which TPG yet. Looking for some odd ball stuff. Despite what people say you can find deals at the NSCC. I got these for $1 a set a few years back.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
Have you ever seen these? There was a small stack of these uncut sheets in an auction lot I bought.
please post as many pictures and stories because the national is to far me to go. i can't get off of work to go anyway. i want to go to one one time. i wish it was in st louis one time that is only three hour drive for me.
If I was going, I'd be looking for a signed and slabbed Eddie Vedder card.
Have fun to all of those that are going!
I’m local and planning to go a day or two. Also going to PSA registry cocktail party. Hopefully we can have some meetups. Looking forward to it.
Bosox1976
if it was within driving distance i would go in a heartbeat, but by the time you get plane tickets, hotels, car rental, food, tickets in, etc. it just is not cost-effective for me. I could buy lots and lots of cards with all of that travel money
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Am lucky to be local. Going to trade night Thursday then show Friday and Saturday. Hoping to scratch a biggie off my list on one of my projects.
It was miserably hot on the floor today. Lots of complaints about the relative lack of A/C from both dealers and customers. Thursday's forecast is for even hotter temperatures, so it'll be interesting to see if they rectify the issue by morning.
I just got back from the NSCC late last night. The show seems to have exponentially grown in size since 2021. If I were to guess, I bet there were 200 more vendors. Many of the vendors in the back were experiencing some warmer temperatures than the people in front. I would attribute this to the back doors being opened allowing vendors to bring in their inventory. BBCE had plenty of great boxes as usual for those wanting 1979 and newer, but 1970-1978 was really light. BBCE is starting an auction in October and has some incredible items for bidding. You can sign up by going to his website if you want.
Lots of baseball, Football and basketball singles for all of you set builders. I found many of the dealers very pleasant and willing to help. Many of the auction houses had all their upcoming cards on display and it was like being in a museum. For all of you who like memorabilia like bats and autographs ,there were some really cool pieces.
I encourage anyone going to the show this week to take three days to walk it. I was only there for 1.5 days and I should have stayed an additional day just to finish up.
It is very big.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
Just came back from the show. As someone mentioned, its way bigger than the previous years. Now they have two different entries, and it all connects. Lots of mor dealers on the floor. It's literally exhausting to keep up with where you're at sometimes and very easy to get lost. So many people there that its save to say the hobby is alive an well.
As for cards, yes, there is plenty. Lots of more Pokeman dealers this year than I've seen in the past. I was a bit disappointed with the selection of cards. I didn't see too many high-end items as I did in the previous years. I feel as though a lot of people got caught holding the bag that they simply refuse to let some of their big cards go for a lot less than what they purchased for.
One of the things I always look out for is one of my favorite cards, the 1984 Donruss Mattingly. I attended in 2019 as well as in 2021 and I never came across a PSA 10. Well today I finally saw one and I was surprised. I have yet to come across his 1984 Topps in a PSA 10 (and this is my third National now). Even though I saw a plenty of 1980 Topps Rickey Hendersons, there wasn't that many PSA 9's. In fact, this show did not have too many 80;s cards in gem mint. You'll see plenty of PSA 7's, 8's, and 9's but don't expect to see something like a Roger Clemens 1985 Topps or a Mark McGwire in a PSA 10.
Modern is everywhere. It feels like I am seeing the same tables over and over again because everyone has the same modern cards. I saw a bunch of Ohtani's, Soto's and Acuna's. The same cheap base cards and then I also saw quite a few real nice, higher valued ones. There is vintage but expect at least a 20% markup on that stuff for the most part. As for the cards I am looking for, unfortunately I have seen a copy that I really liked. I am looking for two cards (2003 Topps Chrome Lebron and 1984 Fleer Update Clemens - both in PSA 10. While I saw plenty of base (the one of him holding up his jersey) in PSA 10, I didn't see many of the chrome version (he's jumping and taking a shot). As for the Clemens, I did come across 2 PSA 10's. One was off L to R and the other had a rough cut and something that look like a ding in the middle of the cards ride side. I personally wouldn't feel right owning that PSA 10 as I don't think it was a good/strong example.
One of the tables that I was certainly impressed with was Jeff (Card Country). He certainly has quality in his collection. Beautifully centered. Yes, they do have premiums attached to them, but I saw people buying because they recognize quality and also the potential of resale when it comes time later down the road. It always sells for more as there is more of a demand for sharper looking cards. Plus, Jeff is a good guy too. I took a lot of photos and although I'll post more tomorrow, I'll at least post a photo of Jeff and I as well as some photos from his table. I also took a photo of his business card in case you see something you like. Jeff is a member of these boards and although he is still active, he is more of a lurker these days, but he said he does jump on from time to time.
Thats all I got for today, if there's something you would specifically like to see, let me know and I'll try and capture it.
I'll post more photos in the morning when I'm a little more recharged and I should do a walkthrough video which I';; toss up on YouTube and link it here for people who want to get a real feel for what it's like without the fancy edits or added music.
Marc~
Marc…
Thanks for spotlighting Jeff of Card Country. As you stated…he is a very good guy in our hobby. Also…it is always enjoyable to see his quality cards with a focus on centering!
Those are some SWEET vintage!
I love the 84 Donruss Rose. That's a great photo.
Every year he has the best cards year in and year out - will be by there tomorrow and wallet will be lighter 🤣
About two hours from going back inside. Kind of bummed out that I haven't found what I am looking for yet. They say the National is the place to find everything but if you are looking for specific items that aren't as sought out for, it can be slim pickings and I would prefer not to get something just for the sake of saying came out with something. It does get a little tempting when I see other items, I also am interested in, but I am still holding out for what I came here for. I feel I still have time on my side as I will also be here all day today as well as most of the day tomorrow (although I do fly out tomorrow later in the afternoon. The good thing is that cards are always trading hands so I am hoping that I will see some new inventory on tables today. It's very possible with all these trade nights going on in the evenings that even a non-dealer brought the cards I was looking for and now they are on a dealers table out there somewhere.
As for now, I found the show to be VERY overwhelming. This year is unlike anything I've seen in terms of dealers but as I mentioned in a post above, I do see a lot of the same modern over and over and over. Prices do range, however. For example - 2011 Topps Update Mike Trout RC generally sells at the moment for about $1350-1500. I have seen prices in the 1500 range, saw one at $1250 (which was great) and I have seen as high as $1700. The good thing about when you see a lot of the same cards is that you have more negotiating power. You can always walk around for another 5 minutes and simply find another one. And of course, the less you are "married" to an item, you can negotiate even harder. I heard a dealer yesterday tell a customer to just make an offer and the worse he can say is "no" or perhaps he will make a counter to the potential buyers offer.
I did take notes as I walked around yesterday so that I can keep track of the booths, however, inside is so massive that it's really hard to keep tabs on the boots/rows that you've been through. It's very easy to also get sidetracked. today, I will walk in with a map and be crossing out the rows I passed through so ensure that I don't miss anything (or at least cover as much ground as I can. It's that massive. When I am on the hunt for something, I generally try and do a quick glance at the items or ask the dealer if they have those specific items on their table. I don't stop too long and stare and admire all the cards. That way, I can just keep pushing forward as I'll need all the time I can get.
Here are some more photos of things that I enjoyed seeing yesterday, I was in a bit of a rush so I would just take the photo and moving. In the past, after I've found my items, that's when I really stop to smell the roses. Hopefully today I will have better results.
What was the price on the 1970 fb wax box (the one next to the desert shield wax box)?
Crazy how many Jordans are available and yet the market still holds up. Looks like the PSA 10 has softened greatly though by $100K from its max price on VCP. PSA 9 seems firm at around $15K.
@Vagabond thanks for the report! What a haul of Jordan rookies in those pics. Crazy!
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
It was Series 1 - $75,000
I look forward to Jeff's table every National. This may have been the first year that I hadn't bought something from him. It was definitely not for the lack of dynamite cards, however. Him and his dad are also a pleasure to talk to. He is one of the great guys of the hobby.
Marc...
Great job and photos as a roving reporter. It is much appreciated for those unable to attend.
Just an FYI on the 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan PSA-10...a PSA-10 (PWCC-S) sold on PWCC last night for $222,000. That is a near term high!
Marc ---
Thanks ever so much for the excellent photos and your insightful observations. You're so wise to stay focused on what you are on the prowl for, yet keeping an eye out for an unexpected surprise. As the guys have been saying, since we can't be there, I also thank you for thinking of us that are wishing we could be....
I sincerely pray you happen on a 1984 Fleer Update Roger Clemens and a 1984 Donruss Don Mattingly PSA 10 that you say in your heart, "THAT'S IT, THAT'S THE ONE I WANT", and can strike a deal for each. Happy hunting, my fellow collecting warrior.
--- Indiana Jones (Brian Powell)
Thanks for posting all the pics! I missed going this year but plan to be in Cleveland next year. As much as the show is about cards (and in my case, packs), the real enjoyment is getting to meet up and hang out with hobby friends and fellow collectors!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Just back from the National. Purchased a 75 Brett Rookie from Jeff Foy, always great to talk to him and his family. I've been going to National's since the 80's, and I was overwhelmed a bit. I'm a vintage guy, and there are so many new cards I know absolutely nothing about, but there was a huge crowd, and many young people. I wish they would place, or allow, the vintage dealers to be in one area. It would make things so much easier. Prices are mostly insane, a far cry from before Covid.
Off topic. If you get a chance, hit Heritage Auctions, and check out the Star Trek uniforms and memorabilia from the original TV series. It is mind blowing.
I long for the old days, of faces I used to know, the many familiar dealers, and when submitting 50's 60's and 70's commons for set building was within reason. I wonder where the registry is headed without when the very people responsible for its rise to prominence, are left out in the cold due to the high cost of submitting 'commons.' Those were great days, I hope they return. Collect what you like, and enjoy what you have.
The Dude
how is jordan rookies so much when it seems to me there are plenty of them to go around.
i just posted the same thing i just do not get it. i guess maybe it is i do not have one. i have jordans second year fleer.
Just got back to my hotel about 25 minutes ago. Exhausted is not even the word, and yet, I still have to go shower and then meet up with a group tonight for drinks and we show each other our purchases from that day.
Thank you for all the kind words. I am certainly glad many of you get to enjoy the posts and photos. Originally, I was going to post tonight but what the heck, I share a few and then in the morning once I'm better rested, Ill post more before I head back out to the show for Day 3 (for me). I am leaving tomorrow late afternoon, so I won't do the show full day as the last two, but I'll be there long enough. I'll have to do my video walkthrough which I am afraid will be long. I discovered another room today with even more dealers. It's really just way too much to see and for those who plan on attending just one day, I am afraid you won't get the full experience.
So, I did pick up two cards today. One was the 2003 Topps Chrome Lebron in PSA 10. The price was good, and I even made a cash offer got even a better price. I just hope the card is done dropping - which seems to be the case as many things seem to have finally leveled out. I can't imagine those cards going for even less than what they are now but it's a crazy hobby in a crazy world so who knows. I'm a long-term holder so regardless, whatever happens, I don't see myself losing once it's time to sell off things. As for the second card, I wasn't trying to chase the 84 Donruss Mattingly. I actually have had that one for many years now. I wanted to find a 1984 Fleer Update Clemens. t this show, I only found two (and I swear I visited every table showing a picture of it asking if they had it. Funny how they would say "no, but I have a 9" or "I have one at home". Thats awesome but however, it doesn't exactly help me lol, and off I go to the next table and so on. I did happen to come across Mattingly's 1984 Fleer. It had the requirements in which I was looking for upon purchasing (new holder and centered). Thats pretty much it, oh, and I don't want one that has a rough edge like many from that set. It was a great price. I offered slightly lower than the sticker and my offer was accepted. Again - cash is king. I use to own it but sold my copy along with the 1984 Topps PSA back around 2016. Now if I could just find that 1984 Topps in PSA 10 which I am convinced is not at this show after all the walking I've done in the past two days.
The AC was working better today, and they even had a bunch of those air dryers for mitigation when a home is all wet and they are trying to dry the inside. They were trying to keep it as cool as they can. It wasn't great but overall, an improvement from the last two previous days. The crowd was plentiful and everyone (except this one clown who got an attitude for no real reason except he was being a grump to the dealer) was in good spirits. Lots of kid's wives, girlfriends, mistresses, you name it - everyone was out and about. The autograph lines were packed, and people waited for over two hours to get an autograph of certain players.
I walked around a lot, and I did see more vintage today which was quite nice. There was plenty of graded and ungraded. The great thing about this show is that you can probably come with $300 or $5000 and still have a great time. You can definitely stretch your money and always come out with a few cards. Nothing better than finding something you really wanted or sometimes, you just don't have a particular card in mind until you actually come across it and it calls to you. It's pretty dangerous for those who perhaps have no self-control and just make purchases without really thinking in through. I have to imagine that more than have the folks are putting things on their PayPal or credit cards with no way of paying it back unless they now have to go home and sell off a bunch of items or perhaps, be making payments for the next 6 to 12 months until they pay it all back. Thats why it's best to bring cash. It makes you hold onto it a bit longer versus just swapping a card and now you have the item in your hand. Know your limitations and perhaps it's best to go there with cash and something in mind already that you are looking for.
Thats it for now, I'll write some more tomorrow, but in the meantime, enjoy some photos.
How many of the dealers have a web page?
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
Lots of dudes in that pic. Where are the mistresses?
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
That photo is pretty dude heavy lol. But there were lots of females trailing behind their guys today.
Last day for me and many today. Although I'll miss the camaraderie with the folks who I have been hanging out with the past couple of days, I am also ready to go home this evening. Regardless of if I am able to find a 1984 Topps Mattingly in PSA 10, I will still say that this year's event was a success.
This show is BIG and as I've mentioned. Just how big? Well, the Chicago show just can't be done in 1 day anymore. Before there were about two general areas and it was easy to keep track of where you were. Today, there are about 4 areas now. The big main room (which they added even more tables, the second is still there but now they also opened up about two other big areas. There used to be one way in and out and now the whole thing connects so you have two ways in and out. The good thing about this is that the wait times to get in are much faster. No longer I think needed are the VIP tickets where one of the biggest benefits were getting into the show quicker. The long cattle lines to get in have pretty much dissolved and that's HUGE.
Inside, you can find things to eat. They have more places around selling things from Mexican food to grill centers placed all over and you are never far from any food or beer station. The prices are $10, $13, and $15. Miller Lite and Blue Moon are pretty much the main picks. I believe the last time I attended, they could have also had Yuengling but I also could be mistaken. Prices are expensive but the good thing is that while you can also bring snacks in, there are dealers who sell candy bars at their tables as well. You may even run into a kid with a little red wagon selling water bottles and snacks at a very reasonable price.
As far as dealers go, many have been very nice. Sometimes you may come across one that perhaps doesn't engage as much but most are fairly happy to just even discuss the hobby and perhaps even show you cool items they picked up during the show. While prices can sometimes be all over the place, generally, they are within a certain range for certain cards and the ones that you see plenty of, it's easier to negotiate for a better price. If not, you can always find the same card just a couple of tables down. Now for the scarcer items, you may not have the same bargaining power. And when it comes to centering, yes, you will pay a premium. I'm not talking about centering on a 1984 Fleer card but more like cards from the 70's and before. Dealers are not at all offended if you make an offer, but at eats make a reasonable one where both can be happy. Remember, they also have to make table and they also have to cover their hotel and traveling expenses just like we do.
The Chicago location is very popular amongst the collectors and it's in a centralized location. You have plenty of hotel close by and within walking distance. Even a few directly across from the convention center itself. The airport is literally less than two miles. No need to take an uber to and from as most hotels offer free shuttle service. A little tip: Even if you aren't staying at one of the hotels but just want to go straight to the show after arriving, just hop on any one of the shuttle hotels and they'll take you to the hotel. They don't check if you are a guest or not prior to hopping on. Then just walk across the street to the convention - but obviously don't tell them that
For those who drive, not sure how the parking situation is but most hotels do have parking. You may perhaps need to be a guest at one of the hotels, but I have to think that there are places to park. Prices the hotels charge may start at $29 and up. Especially when they know there will be big events, prices may be even higher. Next year's show I believe will be in Cleveland. I haven't been to that one, but I heard it's about a 20-minute uber ride to and from the convention as there are no hotels near the convention center over there. Again, that's what someone told me yesterday in conversation while we were discussing if we were planning on attending or not. As for booking hotels, don't sleep on that. They happen to get booked VERY quickly. Especially now with the amount of people who recently started collecting during 2020. Most hotels will let you book 6 months out and others even up to a year out. If you aren't one of those folks who plans early, then you can always get a hotel, but it will be further away and may be at least about a 15 to a 30-minute ride each way. Fortunately, I am staying across the street so if I am at the show and I wanted to step out to go back to my room and freshen up and go get something to eat, it's very convenient. And yes, there is free re-entry one you initially get in that day.
About to end with today's agenda. I will be there about 30 minutes earlier with a pass before the regular crowd starts filling it up. I plan on taking it easier and just enjoying it. Yesterday I was hitting table after table in hopes that a table picked up what I was looking for in a deal as cards are always trading hands/tables. I will be in the lookout today for a 1984 Topps Mattingly in PSA 10. I'm not sure why that card is so hard to find at this show but it's always available on eBay. I haven't been seeing too much 80's in PSA 10 but there's certainly no shortage of PSA 7's, 8's, and 9's. Thats also usually the answer I am given when I ask if they have it in a 10. "No, but I have a 9". Regardless of if I find one or not, it's not a big deal. Still walking away with two cards that I am happy with, and I had a great time reconnecting with folks. Aside from looking for that one card, I still have to make my National recap video. I did one in 2019 and in 2021 and they have been pretty heavily viewed within the YouTube community and it's pretty much just me walking around and talking about my experience, sharing tips that have helped me and just trying to make the viewer who has never attended get a good idea on what this whole event is like. This year, it's so massive that I'm sure I myself will also get lost but it'll still be fun times.
Thats it for now, about to start getting ready and I also have my bags to pack and take it with me. I heard you can leave your bag somewhere at the show, but I can't confirm that either. Since I just stayed for two nights, I have a bookbag with me, but it is heavy, and I preferably don't want to be carrying that on my back for the next few hours. Fortunately, I have some friends who are dealers and I have been lucky enough that a couple have even offered to hold my bag at their table on the last day, so I don't have to walk around with it. Again, nice people in the hobby and you do make real friendships. Let me close out here with some photos from yesterday of items I found to be interesting. Not sure if I will follow up after this post with a last day recap but let's see if there's anything new I could add. In the meantime, enjoy~
i was wanting to see if there were any pujols bowman chrome rookies. if i would have went to i would have wanted a walter payton rookie and a 81 topps montana.
Marc - Thank you!!! I wish I could be there in Chicago. Your posts remind me why I love this hobby and make me incredibly excited about collecting.
Just chiming in to say that the PSA Set Registry cocktail party was a nice event. They held it quite a distance from the convention (Evanston), but offered a Lyft credit for folks to get there. Nice food and drink, a couple of hundred folks in attendance and a nice chance to interact with the PSA team.
They gave out a few awards to some collectors who really built amazing sets this year, and also inducted a few people into the hall of fame, including a couple of Board members. Lots of folks were pooped from walking the show all day, and am sure the logistics of getting over from Rosemont turned some off, but a very nice event IMHO. It was nice to meet a few big registry guys who aren't really on this forum.
Bosox1976
Finders fee for a Case of Unopened Alf is a bag of cheese curds and a 40oz Pabst.
@Vagabond Thanks for the report and the pics. Most excellent. When they have coin shows there,
the ANA, I don't remember all of those food choices and the beer. I went in 1993, at the Mccormack
center. I was there 3 days. Not enough time to see everything then. Came away with a big box of
T-206s. Getting back to your pics, I was not aware of the "Pepsi" cards or the "Craftsman" cards. Once
again, THANK YOU!!
That PSA 8 rookie Aaron is nice.
It’s obvious I need to win the lottery because there are a ton of vintage I’d like to have in those photos.
Question: does "BBCE" mean the original packs are present? If so, $1000 seems like a steep premium for FASC.
FASC is “from a sealed case” meaning that the box was pulled right from the case and no one picked through / replaced packs. Non-FASC are “buy at your own risk” - they are promising that the packs inside are legit from the year and product, but can’t promise that they are the original packs that came in the box.
I don’t know about the year shown, but if it’s common knowledge that boxes could easily be picked through to ID the desirable packs, maybe the $1K premium for FASC makes sense?
Jim
In my experience, Fleer products have the most consistent sequencing of all of the manufacturers. Once you know the 10-15 cards that come before card X and the 10-15 cards that come after card X, you could pick through rack packs, cellos, and wax packs to identify those cards either before or after card X, and be fairly certain card X would be in that pack based on the predictable sequencing. FASC is absolutely a premium worth paying for as far as Fleer products go.
Donruss, on the other hand, had such random sequencing, that on many occasions I pulled multiples of the same card from one pack. There was a forum member that broke a box of 81 Donruss on camera and he had several packs where he pulled 4 and 5 of the same player from one pack. So in my opinion, FASC on Donruss products is a waste of money, because it's such a crapshoot on what's in the packs/box to begin with.
Ooof. $300 for a Jerry Rice rookie? They're like $185 on Ebay.
No, I understand that, but doesn't BBCE have some sort of designation like "36 Packs" for a box that appears "put together"?
I got these with tabs - looked very nice for the grades.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.