The Box of 20 Progress Thread
Cladiator
Posts: 17,922 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've heard about people building Box of 20 collections since I first started in this hobby. This idea always resonated with me. I liked how the terms of the collection are completely determined by the collector, those 20 coins can be anything you want and for any reason. So I started working on a Box of 20 collection a couple years ago. Using this thread to keep track of it as it grows and morphs could be useful. I regret not doing this when it first started but better late than never. I won't post all of what's in the box today so as not to annoy folks with all the posts it'll take that'll basically pin it to the top. I'll try to add another coin every day or so until the thread is caught up and then update as additions or changes are made.
God willing and the creek don't rise, I've always intended for my permanent collections to be sold posthumously by my family. That being said several of my collections are somewhat esoteric and I have concern of my non-numismatic family being able to realize the maximum value from them. The first goal of the Box is to accumulate value in coins that should hopefully retain that value over time and should have a high degree of liquidity. Goal two is simply to acquire coins that either fascinate me or are in some way special to me.
Let's start off with the 1¢ coins.
The Indian Cent design has always been my favorite of the one cent coins. It was an easy decision to include one in the Box. I chose the 1909-S as it falls well within the 1st goal of the Box with it's rarity and semi-key status. I'm a bit obsessed with the San Francisco mint so that steered me to this coin over the 1877. I also like the fact that it was the last year of the type.
PCGS/CAC VF20
Comments
Great post! Excited to see how this thread develops.
I use x boxes of 20 for plan slabbed inventory. Slabs are organized by TPG then country, demonization, date / MM, and grade. I use PCGS boxes (for PCGS & ICG) and NGC storage boxes NGC, Anacs slabs. The old Teletrade boxes which I still have can store all 4 types.
If I were a collector limited to one box I might have slots designated for different types: US, Bullion, World.
Nice IHC!
My YouTube Channel
That's a nice one.
peacockcoins
I like the look. Very attractive and a good choice!
Bookmarked.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Love the 09-S Indian.
Box of 20? Is that where a collector uses only PCGS boxes of 20 to house the hundreds of coins that they own?
The box of 20 idea was supposed to be that you have a collection of 20 coins. People mostly don't practice this. They still call it a box of 20, but own many more coins than that. Which is fine. I could never limit myself to just 20 coins.
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That is a nice IHC.... I have not pursued the box of 20 route of collecting. Though I could easily put 20 of my favorites together if I choose to do that. I like coins, and I have a lot of coins.. Will be watching this thread to see more nice coins. Cheers, RickO
The other one cent coin in the Box is this Wheatie. I know, never say never, but I don't foresee any other one cent coins being added at this point.
While I like the overall design of the Indian much better than the Lincoln I do find the reverse design of the Wheatie to be very attractive. Enough so that it won a spot in the Box. Being a sucker for S mint coins the obvious choice would be the 09-S VDB but something about that one just doesn't do it for me for some reason. I noticed that at coin shows, in online inventories and even on eBay the amount of 09-S VDB's often far outnumbered the amount of nice 14-D's. Many more 14-D's were minted than were the 09-S VDB's so perhaps they just weren't saved in the quantity that the 09-S VDB's were? While the 09-S VDB may be more recognizable as valuable to the non-numismatist I think the 14-D is known as a valuable semi-key enough to qualify it for the 1st goal of the Box (being 2nd fiddle to the venerable 09-S VDB in notoriety is still pretty good after all). I was hoping to shop through Charmy's table at the ANA earlier this year to find one but that wasn't meant to be. A month or so before the show I happened across this one at DLRC. Once I confirmed that the brightness under the chin was just glare and in hand that area was as beautifully brown as the rest of the coin, I couldn't resist.
PCGS/CAC VF35
We might as well do this in order by denomination, at least for the coins already in the Box.
Next up, the King of the business strike two cents. I went with the '72 instead of the '64 SM as I'm trying to stay away from rarity due to design variation, die state or error. For this Box, if it's got rarity I'd like it to be because of year, type, mint location, condition or mintage (original or surviving). I'm also a fan of this one being the last year of the coin, for business strikes. The two cent coin is one that's always fascinated me and I've had to fight off the urge to begin a date set many times. Having this in the Box helps a lot in quenching that thirst.
Unlike the two cents posted above, this coin has not been blessed with a bean, I've no idea if it's been submitted before. I've been proven to not be great at calling whether or not a coin will get a bean so I'll ask your opinion. Yes or no, makes no difference to me so don't be afraid to say no. I'd just like to hear whether you think it'd be worth sending it in or if it would be best to save the $ for a tank of gas instead. It came to me via West Coast Coins at the ANA in Phoenix earlier in the year. I love the hints of what used to be red hiding in the recesses of the devices and the slightly wood grain-ish toning to the right of the reverse at a diagonal. The good strike was a big seller for me too. The only weakness I can see is a tad on the upper right arrow shaft and surrounding leaves but even there the detail is still clear.
PCGS AU58
Years ago I had an 1845 H10¢ that had the 5 altered to make the coin appear to be an 1846. The craftsmanship of the culprit was horrible at best, borderline laughable. I thought it would fill the void to have that fake but, to no surprise, it did not. I think I ultimately sold it here on the forum as a counterfeit.
The 1846 H10¢ is the first coin in the Box that is truly a bucket list coin for me. I've fancied this issue since I first fell in love with all things half dime. It captured my fascination when I learned of it and it never let go. Could this coin have been in the pocket of the guy who rang the Liberty bell in '46 and broke it? I'd like to send this one to CAC one day as I do believe it is accurately graded. PCGS lists a mere 7 coin population in the grade with only 13 finer. NGC population is 7 in the grade with 15 finer. Assuming none of those are duplicates from cross overs and/or crack outs the numbers are still incredibly small. I feel privileged to have the opportunity to be the caretaker of this coin for a period in its life.
PCGS XF45
Love this thread.
Thank you for taking us on your journey.
It is correct that the 1914-D cents were not saved in quantity. The 1914-D is just one of three Lincoln dates I do not have, the other two being 1909-S No VDB and 1924-D. Nice coin!
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
@Cladiator I seem to detect a missing capped bust half dime in the box. You must be looking for something special there! (That said, the 1846 XF45 is a groovy coin!) I will also note that I have a little whiteness under the chin, but it's not "glare," it's just "being a graybeard." But I'll shave when the weather warms up; I'm told that takes ten years off. heheh
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
I've been more into imaging Large Cents lately but will go back to the Box of 20 at some point. It's a bit more difficult to image coins through the plastic... here's a picture of most of the Family so far.
My collecting goals for the Box are Gold by Denomination; Early Type; and Historically important... and within my budget! Sorry, no Brasher Doubloons...
I also added an IHC as an example of the coin that got me started in collecting. I'll add a DMPL Morgan at some point too...
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Nice effort here, and the history you posted here with these picks so far are really nice to read.
Keep it up!
I played with that idea for a while but decided against it. Since there are no significant rarities in the series without diving into die marriages or die states it wouldn't fit into goal 1 of the collection. A rare marriage or state would only hold value to a specialist and they seem to be few and far between now a days. Who knows how many might be around when the Box is liquidated by the family one day in the, hopefully distant, future. So assuming rarity is out of the equation the only way to get a CBH10¢ to stand out would be in condition. As odd as it might sound coming from a half dime nut, when I think of spending this much for a coin there are other options that I'd rather go with than a CBH10¢. Perhaps I'd look at it differently if I didn't have my core collection of AU CBH10¢'s to scratch the itch.
I read this yesterday but it kinda rattled around in my brain a bit and I wanted to pull that thread a bit with you. I know that the population of capped bust half dime specialists is low - but is it really lower than it was? I know the respondents to the 2023 census were lower than in 2019. But there is still a core of serious collectors, and a pretty good bunch of folks with smaller sets. I'm interested in your perspective because you've been around waaaay longer than I have in this series.
It's an amazing series for so many reasons (granted, one of which is exactly why you don't have them in your Box of 20, namely that there are no extremely tough ones in the base year/major variety sets that people can assemble.) Your concern is that the supply/demand ratio will skew further to supply, reducing the ROI for you or your heirs. But another way to look at it is, these coins will have their bicentennial birthday this decade - and as "200th birthday" articles get written and registry sets garner attention, it may be that MORE collectors are drawn to them, skewing toward demand. Food for thought...
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
I really don't have a good feeling for whether or not the number of specialists is lower, higher or the same as in the recent past. I know of some that have left but also some that have joined. It does sometimes feel like there is not as much enthusiasm as there was previously but I attribute that to the loss of our leader in 2019. I think it's reasonable to assume the core of half dime folks is stable and not significantly changed over the past few decades.
My concern is more that, even with a healthy half dime nut core, it could be difficult for numismaticly blind heirs to realize maximum value of an esoteric half dime rarity. When I talk to dealers at shows it seems a very small percentage are more than passingly aware of half dime marriage/re-marriage/die state rarity/value. Of those, even fewer seem to be interested in depth. At full strength, the number of half dime specialists and half dime specialty catering dealers must pale in comparison to those of more widely collected coins like Bust Half dollars, Lincoln Cents, Morgans, etc, etc... I'd like the coins in the Box that fit into goal 1 to be ones that any dealer and most any collector will instantly recognize as having value. Admittedly there are coins in the Box that do not fit goal 1 and are included solely because they belong to goal 2 but they are the minority and hold little monetary value. I suppose a PQ high grade Bust fip could be inserted under goal 2, something to think about...
I do hope the upcoming 200 year mark for the coins will boost collector interest and help the series burst out of it's perennial "type coin" status. Although I guess cherry picking would get more difficult with more competition lol. It's still pretty doable at this point, I've managed to pick 3 small cherries just in the past couple weeks.
Thank you for the thought out reply. I do enjoy talking (typing) about these little beauties.
Along with the half dime posted earlier, the 1822 Dime is a bucket list coin for me. It worked it's way into my mind early on in my collecting adventure. I recall reading posts on this forum about it back in the early 2000's and being completely enamored by it. I dreamed of how neat it would be to have a roll of them lol. While I still think that would be an accomplishment I'm more than happy to just have this one piece. When this coin was made the country was just adding the 24th star on the flag to welcome Missouri as a state. The Florida Territory was also created this year by merging East Florida and West Florida, that sounds so crazy now lol.
The goal with this coin was to get a wholesome, problem free, well circulated example that could tell a thousand stories if it could talk. It's got a couple attributes in the 15 range but many in the 12 range so I think it's solid for the grade. I hope to send this 201 year old work horse off to CAC at some point before they stop issuing stickers. PCGS lists 11 in the grade and NGC says 2 in "Fine" which puts it at a max F12 population of a whopping 13.
PCGS F12
The Box has only one 25¢ coin in it to date. Ultimately I think it'll have two. Of the three Barber denominations the quarter has always been the one that has drawn my eye. Something about the design and layout and how they play on a coin of it's size just seems to work. I think if I were to be a 25¢ nut I'd be focusing on these Barber beauties.
I was pleased to see the three top keys in the series were all S mint coins. It was a pretty easy call to go with the 1896 as I wanted the example to be a 19th century coin. If/when I add another 25¢ coin to the Box it'll be a 20th century coin (can you guess which it'll be?). The 1890's have captured my interest for a long time (as you'll see later in the Box). The transitional period between the old time technology and the virgining new fangled contraptions is incredible. The first ever Ford gas powered horseless carriage was introduced in 1896 and the New York Telephone Company was formed which ultimately has evolved into Verizon New York Inc. It must have been quite a time to live. I kind of feel like we can identify with those that lived then as we are experiencing a similar transitional period between the apex of non-digital 20th century technology and the nearly magical wonders that the digital age has and is continuing to bring us. At least for those of us that were alive in the 70's and 80's and got to experience the apex pre-digital era. I know there are quite a few YN's on the board that have probably grown up with digitization as the norm.
The 1896 25¢ has a permanent place in the Box but I do hope to upgrade my current example when the right coin presents itself. That's not to say I don't like the current example because I do. That being said, it's not the perfect Barber quarter for the Box. I think the reverse is a solid 8 but the obverse makes a good argument for 6 in my opinion. Perhaps I'm off on that assessment as CAC blessed it with their bean but my gut says if I cracked it out and submitted it raw it'd be a 50/50 chance on getting a 6. Maybe I should call it a 7. One day I'd like to replace it with a coin of consistent grade on each side and a tad bit less circulated. Maybe something in the high Fine to low Very Fine rage.
PCGS/CAC VG08
I like the type selection, but the scuff on the cheek makes this coin unworthy in my opinion. As you say, it's a placeholder. Enjoying watching your journey!
In the year 1815 there were a mere 17 states in the union. Founding Fathers were still in positions of power. One of them, James Madison was the President. The War of 1812 came to an end shortly after the last two confrontations, the Battle of New Orleans and the Battle of Fort Bowyer. The nation was still a fledgling at only 39 years of age, younger than many of us on this forum.
At this point the 1815 50¢ has the 2nd lowest mintage of all the coins in the Box with a bit north of 47K being made, PCGS estimates around 800 surving. In this grade its PCGS population is 26. I was lucky enough to find and acquire this piece from DLRC at the ANA show in Phoenix this year. The photos are not what I would consider great. I'll have to avail PCGS of their TrueView "through the slab" service on this coin one day as I don't want to re-holder it and lose the bean.
PCGS/CAC VF20
This is quickly becoming one of my favorite threads. It’s like a history lesson and cool coins all in one story. Please keep it coming!
I like how many of the selections are well worn coins yet very eye appealing. Am very much enjoying your journey.
I love the originality and rarity of this coin! This one has me smiling from ear to ear! Super tough to find another one like this! I once had a VG of this date.
Wholesome mid-grade 1822 dime! I love it for the same reasons as the 1846 Half Dime. You can go to a huge show and not find a coin like this.
Continued, and outstanding progress. Very nice additions. Cheers, RickO
Love the 1815/2!
Had that one in my sights last year also, it's a keeper!
This half dollar is the first coin that resides in the box solely because of goal #2. It has no rarity for it's type, variety (it's an O-120) or condition and it's not particularly valuable. It just happens to be gorgeous and holds a special place with me, that's it.
If memory serves I got this coin many years ago raw, probably at the old Santa Clara Coin Expo. Not 100% sure on that but it's the most likely scenario lol. At some point it went to PCGS where it was graded AU50 and got the below TrueView taken, again this was quite some time ago. Years later I sold the coin with a big F&F discount to my only friend from my "normal life" that also shared the hobby of numismatics. He was working on a Dansco 7070 and promptly cracked it out so it could live in the album. Soon after that he moved across the country to PA. The coin happily resided in his album for several years. In 2013 he unexpectedly passed away. I went out to PA for his memorial and spent some time with his widow and two young boys to help out where I could. At one point she was going through some of his belongings and we came across the Dansco type set. She graciously let me have the coin back. Some more time passed and I decided to get it back into PCGS plastic. I took it to my LCS (Jack Beymer) and had it resubmitted. I didn't pop for the extra $5 to have it TrueView'd again since I had the original one. I told Jack it was a former PCGS AU50 coin, he said they would call it an XF45. Sure enough Jack was spot on, it came back XF45. I really couldn't care less about the numeric grade, as long as it's protected in PCGS plastic and I have a good pic of it I'm happy. This coin will not leave my collection while I'm above ground. When I do go to the big coin show in the sky one day it will go back to my friends boys, along with the story of it's travels, to do with what they want.
One interesting point about 1832. Charles Carroll passed away. He was the last surviving signatory of the Declaration of Independence. 1832 was the end of an era in that context.
PCGS XF45
This lovely creature is the last half dollar currently residing in and the most recent addition to the Box. It's the 2nd coin I've shown so far that is in the Box under goal #2. Like the 1832 above it is not abnormally valuable when compared to its peers. Unlike the 1832, it doesn't have any particular sentimental value to me. It simply captivated me like few coins have from the moment I laid eyes on it. I don't know how to say this without sounding weird but I'm absolutely in love with this thing. When I look at it, I smile. When I try to find something wrong with it to give me an excuse to sell it I come up blank. I've come to terms with the fact that I will be the caretaker of this coin for a very long time for no other reason than it gives me the fizz. I have it propped up on my laptop and I'm smiling at this very moment while I'm typing and looking at it.
It's the WB-34 Type 2 Very Small S variety and is a population 1 at PCGS. That makes it sound rare and ok, maybe in that respect it is, but I don't believe it's the kind of rarity that adds any significant value or demand. The variety had absolutely no part in my decision to acquire it and place it in the Box. It is neat, as being a Pop 1, it's the "plate coin" (for lack of a better term) on the PCGS Coinfacts page about the variety and that's kind of cool (link to Coinfacts page ---> https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1877-s-50c-wb-34-type-2-very-small/801021/58 ). There is a record of it selling in 2019 at Stack's Bowers that mentions it comes from the "E. Horatio Morgan Collection". The place I got it from mentioned it was also part of the "Twin Lakes Collection". I'm not familiar with either of these collections, does anyone here know anything about them? When it sold at Stack's it had yet to receive its bean.
In 1877 there were 38 states in the Union, Colorado being the latest to join. The Indian Wars were still going strong. Thomas Edison invented the phonograph and Billy the Kid killed his first victim, F.P. Cahill. The "Long Depression" was still in full effect and being felt pretty bad in San Francisco, where this coin was produced. Unemployment was rampant in the city and the economic downturn had collapsed the Bank of California. There were massive riots in San Francisco in July burning parts of the city and taking multiple lives. From what I understand it started off as a labor protest but turned into an anti-Chinese protest and then violent riot. There was apparently a great amount of animosity to the large Chinese population as they poured into the already tight job market. I wonder what the men that struck this coin were doing/thinking during the riot. I wonder if this coin was in the pocket of someone in the city at that time. Fascinating...
PCGS/CAC AU58
Gorgeous! I thought it was in the Choice BU range! Love the mix of colors. The rust/red on the obverse is stunning!
The wait is difficult with one gorgeous coin after another
Well this upgrade happened a bit sooner than I expected. Let me introduce you to the new 1896 S Barber 25¢ in the Box. I feel this coin is a solid upgrade in terms of amount of wear, overall condition and eye appeal from the old VG example detailed earlier in the thread.
PCGS/CAC F15
Love an original barber in F15. Great coin - congrats!
Time for a new addition to the Box. I was lucky enough to happen across and acquire this lovely little work horse of a nickel recently.
This unassuming nickel boasts the 2nd lowest mintage of any business strike 5¢ nickel ever produced by the United States with 16,000 examples being struck. It is 2nd only to the venerable 1913 Liberty Head nickel. With an estimated population of only 5 coins the 1913 is but a pipe dream to all but the most affluent of collectors. So, in effect, the 1880 Shield nickel is the single lowest mintage business strike 5¢ nickel available to the numismatic masses. In the time I've been looking for one of these, (a bit under 2 years), this is the sole problem free example within my budget that I've seen come to market between GC, DLRC, HA, SBG, LRC and eBay. There may have been others but I didn't see them, so I can't count them here. In G06, PCGS lists a population of 5 and NGC only 1 in "Good", don't know if that is a 4 or a 6.
I think the coin is wholesome and problem free with the reverse having some claim to VG and the obverse solid G. Since the obverse always has more impact on the grade I'm completely ok with the assigned G06 grade.
PCGS G06
Enjoying the history you’re adding for each acquisition. Looking forward to the continued ride here.
Up next is the first of the $1 denomination coins in the Box. I wanted the Box to include at least one example of 18th century US coinage and landed on the dollar mostly for it's size. When showing an 18th century US coin to a non-numismatist I think the big dollar will have more impact on them than the smaller denominations. I went with a Heraldic eagle coin because (God willing and the creek don't rise) the Box will have an example of the Small eagle reverse one day when I find an appropriate 1794 H10¢. I've always thought the Heraldic eagle matches best with the Draped bust and the Small eagle best with the Flowing Hair bust.
This coin is the B-5 B-157 variety which is not a rare coin. Interestingly though, this coin is a Pop 1 at VG10 with none grading lower (for this variety) at PCGS. Due to either the high level of wear, 224 years of accumulated grime and/or perhaps an early die state making it faint the long reverse die crack is only slightly visible between S1/T2/A1. The CirCam effect is right where I like it. The coin has nearly a perfect circulated look to my tastes with the only potential detractor being the rim nick seen mostly on the obverse above IB in LIBERTY. The ding is nearly invisible to the naked eye when looked at coin-in-hand as the top coin gasket prong in the slab completely obscures it. It's rare that a TrueView glamor shot actually shows the flaws more than in-hand lol.
1799 saw the death of our National Father in mid December so it is not impossible that he may have carried/used this actual coin. The chances are slim but in the immortal words of Lloyd Christmas; "So you're telling me there's a chance?", The nation also lost William Paca (Dec. of Ind. signatory) in 1799. With the revolution having been over for a mere 16 years at this point the country was still rife with Founding Fathers. I like to believe that this coin passed through at least one of their hands.
PCGS VG10
Next coin in the Box is this recently acquired 1859 Seated Dollar from the San Francisco mint. I'm a big fan of the No Motto seated design on a large coin. I find that big wide open expanse of a reverse field super appealing for some reason.
This coin has several claims to fame that landed it in the Box. It's the very first silver dollar produced at the San Francisco mint. It's the only No Motto silver dollar ever produced at the San Francisco mint. The coin was mainly intended for foreign trade instead of circulation inside the States, the first U.S. trade dollar if you will. As I've mentioned in another thread, I've read that the entire mintage of 20,000 (PCGS pop 48 in this grade) was sent to the Orient and I've read that a few thousand were held back and remained in the U.S. No idea which story is actually true and I've no idea if this coin went to the Orient and came back or never left our shores. I'm just glad it survived in such excellent condition and happened to cross my path at the right moment in time.
The year this coin was minted saw several significant events in America. The conflicts that lead to the Civil War were continuing to heat up, getting closer and closer to the boiling point. For us here in this forum the best event this year would be the introduction of the Indian Cent. Or maybe it would be the Comstock lode being discovered in what is now Nevada. Oregon becomes a state, bringing us to 33. The gold rush began in Colorado. John Brown took Harpers Ferry, was removed by the military and subsequently executed for his crime. Oil was pumped from a drilled well in the U.S. for the first time. That's just a few of the many events that year. No matter how you cut it or what side of events you were on, 1859 does not appear that it was a boring or uneventful year for our only 83 year old nation.
PCGS XF45
You're making great progress!
Fantastique.
I'm loving the coins & descriptions... keep it up.
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A DMPL Morgan example was something I knew I wanted in the Box from the get go, they have always really appealed to me. Of all the "looks" a DMPL Morgan can take on I've always been drawn the most to coins that are centrally white with a medium to small amount of pleasant periphery toning.
Some time ago I was going through inventory at Northern Nevada Coin in Carson City and this little beauty introduced herself to me. The coin totally fit the bill of what I envision as the perfect DMPL coin and was one of those instances where you know you're going home with it the instant you lay eyes on it. In-person the mirrors are nearly as nice as the one in my bathroom. The devices are so frosty they look like they've been stored in a freezer. The '83CC $1 is incredibly common but this coin made the Box for mirrors and eye appeal instead of rarity. As much as I love S minted coins I do have some pretty strong ties to CC and thought it most appropriate for my DMPL example to be a CC coin. This is one I get out every now and then and just stare at it.
A few examples of things going on in the nation when this coin was born; The Brooklyn Bridge was completed and opened. A mere six days later a stampede started when a rumor about its imminent collapse spread and twelve people were crushed to death, crazy stuff. Buffalo Bill opened up his Wild West show and Black Bart pulled off his last stagecoach robbery.
This is the first of three Morgan's in the Box and, God willing and the creek don't rise, the remaining two should be the next two to be featured in this thread.
PCGS MS66 DMPL
That’s one of those Morgans that can even be appreciated by Morgan haters, lol. Gorgeous coin!
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Box of 20 concept is how I decided to collect as well. I rather have fewer nicer examples than tons of ‘stuff’’.
I found myself spilling over and sold a few to return to it. Ha
Good luck and enjoy.