“1799” large cent

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TxCollector
TxCollector Posts: 487 ✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304631793202?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=iwfc8kzUQCG&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=zw5qH5GFS4C&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Are we already at a price level with this where it’s likely that the high bidder will be trying to resell it as an actual 1799?

Comments

  • opportunity
    opportunity Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2022 6:10PM
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    That is 200% an altered 1798.

    Edit: I see that it's already known to be an alteration, probably an S-187 at first glance. The T position in LIBERTY is the dead giveaway. Yes, someone out there may buy it in order to pull a fast one, but anyone paying big money should hopefully see the obvious fact that it's not a '99.

    Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.

  • LanceNewmanOCC
    LanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    wow. someone must really have plans for that one!

    too bad there isn't anything we can do...

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • TheRegulator
    TheRegulator Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭
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    For the newbies... really bad form to link an auction listing before it ends.

    The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Steven59 said:

    @TheRegulator said:
    For the newbies... really bad form to link an auction listing before it ends.

    Yeah - Lord knows we would hate to stop the uninformed from bidding on coins that are not original/authentic........

    And if we're wrong some day, are you willing to make the seller whole?

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • TxCollector
    TxCollector Posts: 487 ✭✭✭✭
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    @TheRegulator said:
    For the newbies... really bad form to link an auction listing before it ends.

    Appreciate the post and I’ll avoid doing so in the future. I hasn’t really thought about the potential to affect sales/auctions.

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Being a known altered date, I really do not see why anyone would bother with it other than potential resale - without disclosure - or just as a sample for 'fake' examples. And that is a high price for a curio. Cheers, RickO

  • burfle23
    burfle23 Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2022 6:12AM
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    This listing is against policy and will be removed when reported. I suppose it is possible some are bidding because they either don't believe it is an altered date and are risking it or as others suggested hoping to sell it later for more. I have a couple for my teaching set but would never pay that much for that...

    1798 S-172:

  • Aotearoa
    Aotearoa Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Steven59 said:

    @TheRegulator said:
    For the newbies... really bad form to link an auction listing before it ends.

    Yeah - Lord knows we would hate to stop the uninformed from bidding on coins that are not original/authentic........

    And if we're wrong some day, are you willing to make the seller whole?

    Wrong about what? And make the seller whole in what way?

    The listing seems to have been removed (and appropriately so) by the way.

    Smitten with DBLCs.

  • Omegaraptor
    Omegaraptor Posts: 541 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ricko said:
    Being a known altered date, I really do not see why anyone would bother with it other than potential resale - without disclosure - or just as a sample for 'fake' examples. And that is a high price for a curio. Cheers, RickO

    There's actually an existent EAC collector base for altered "1799" cents by die variety.

    http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/chap_auc.php?site=1&lang=1&sale=60&chapter=3&page=1

    "You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Omegaraptor ... Thank you, I did not know that. Cheers, RickO

  • logger7
    logger7 Posts: 9,857 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That would be a tough date if it were real.

  • Treashunt
    Treashunt Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    auction was pulled

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Aotearoa said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Steven59 said:

    @TheRegulator said:
    For the newbies... really bad form to link an auction listing before it ends.

    Yeah - Lord knows we would hate to stop the uninformed from bidding on coins that are not original/authentic........

    And if we're wrong some day, are you willing to make the seller whole?

    Wrong about what? And make the seller whole in what way?

    The listing seems to have been removed (and appropriately so) by the way.

    Wrong about our "analysis". For example, if claims are made that a coin is fake which is genuine. Determining impact on the final price would, of course, be difficult. But the reason to not post live auctions is to avoid impacting the outcome of the auction. How would you like it if you consigned coins to an auction house and we spent the week before the auction trashing your coins?

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • burfle23
    burfle23 Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Honestly the only "coin" I would "trash" is a "counterfeit"!

  • Aotearoa
    Aotearoa Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Aotearoa said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Steven59 said:

    @TheRegulator said:
    For the newbies... really bad form to link an auction listing before it ends.

    Yeah - Lord knows we would hate to stop the uninformed from bidding on coins that are not original/authentic........

    And if we're wrong some day, are you willing to make the seller whole?

    Wrong about what? And make the seller whole in what way?

    The listing seems to have been removed (and appropriately so) by the way.

    Wrong about our "analysis". For example, if claims are made that a coin is fake which is genuine. Determining impact on the final price would, of course, be difficult. But the reason to not post live auctions is to avoid impacting the outcome of the auction. How would you like it if you consigned coins to an auction house and we spent the week before the auction trashing your coins?

    The listing acknowledged that the coin was a fake.

    Smitten with DBLCs.

  • TxCollector
    TxCollector Posts: 487 ✭✭✭✭
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    So it sounds like there's a mixed opinion as to whether or not it's proper to post links to live listings even if the intention is to call out what you believe is a counterfeit coin? I struggled with whether or not to even post this because while I do understand not wanting to be wrong and unjustly affecting someone's listing, I also love this hobby and hate seeing what counterfeits are doing to it.

    Here's an example of a listing that just ended:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/265890639878?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QsnEH8-sQae&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=zw5qH5GFS4C&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

    I reported it to eBay days ago under the category of the listing being a raw coin that was advertised as something that was slabbed by PCGS because that was something that I was 100% sure of. Nothing changed with the listing however. IMO, the coin looks very much like the cheap fakes with bright rims that are easy to find for purchase floating around with the word "copy" stamped on them. In addition to that there's the circumstantial evidence of the listing being incorrect and the fact that the seller has a 0 rating which by themselves don't mean that the coin is fake but are red flags nonetheless.

    I know that some people could say that a) there is the possibility that one could be incorrectly reporting a fake, b) the seller could not know what they have which explains the incorrect listing and c) that no one would actually bid on the coin. My counterpoints are that only eBay makes the call on whether or not to remove the listing and that people actually do buy these coins from time to time otherwise we wouldn't keep on seeing listings for fakes over and over again.

    As a forum group should we strive to try and reduce the amount of fakes that are being sold online by alerting others to listings like this so that enough people can report them and get eBay to take them down or is it better to hold our tongues?

    If I'm completely wrong about this being a fake I'd also appreciate learning what attributes of the coin are telltale of this being legitimate. Sorry for potentially beating a dead horse on this matter.

    Thanks

  • burfle23
    burfle23 Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jeffas1974 I for one had no problem with you showing the link for a current auction of an admitted fake; it was against eBay's posting policy for listings and should have been removed as a result. Outside of eBay I own a couple of "1799" fakes but have them labeled as such and use for educational displays as I can.

    For suspect listings I post images without the link to the actual listing for review and discussion; I report the listing when I am sure it is bad.

    The link you showed is a bad coin and listing; fortunately no one fell for it as listed...

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