@bigjpst said:
Not all tax professionals charge huge fees and the software is getting easier and easier for the do it yourself people.
If the Intiut website is accurate, the Turbotax version I need costs a little over $100. The accountant who does my taxes charges me $250 and he used to work for the IRS. It's worth it to me to pay $150 more to have someone who knows what he's doing handling my return and not have to deal with software updates or worrying that I might have entered something wrong.
@bigjpst said:
I don’t like paying tax any more than the next guy, but the 1099 k is not what makes the tax owed. The sale does.
That seems to be regularly misunderstood. Unless, of course, the people complaining here were intending to not declare income from their sales.
@MS66 said:
Definitely jealous of anyone who thinks that navigating the tax code is "easy". It takes me several weeks each year, and the state and local can be more hassle than the IRS.
As a small business man, I get audited all the time [usu state and local] and they have never once even found as much as $100 in additional liability. Usually it's none at all. Why should the agents care? They get paid exactly the same either way. But the cost of compliance for me is colossal.
My friend who runs a major investment fund has never been audited a single time. They know he'll throw the world's sharpest tax attorneys at them if they try.
Maybe let them win once and you will not be "audited all the time". Just a thought.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@jmlanzaf said:
Personally, I would like everyone who owes to pay. It's only fair. If you don't owe anything, you don't pay anything. Filing is not that big of a deal if you sold $2000 worth of coins and made a couple hundred bucks.
Yep agree. It's not rocket science. If you cheat on your taxes be prepared to suffer the consequences. Lock em up. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
The idea that the irs can suddenly find 87,000 agents to hire out of thin air is hilarious. They are probably short staffed in every department. We work with one of their departments in my line of work and they are as slow as ever. It’s chest thumping at it’s finest.
The biggest lie!
I'm here from the government and I'm here to help.
Anyone ever notice when they "need" more money, cutting their budget, useless programs, or any politicians perks aren't spoken about? If there is an honest bone among them, it was broken years ago. The percentage they steal from the citizen is in outrageous!
Makes me wonder if everyone decided to stop paying the extortion rate, where would they imprison all of us....lol of course. Write in to your representative who represents who in reality? I will do it, but have little faith it changes anything. Didn't the Beetles have a song about the Tax Man?
Cheers my friends, may each day be loved and appreciated
Come on, guys. Political comments are against the rules here and they definitely aren't tolerated. I'd hate to see any of you guys get banned.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@clarkbar04 said:
The idea that the irs can suddenly find 87,000 agents to hire out of thin air is hilarious. They are probably short staffed in every department. We work with one of their departments in my line of work and they are as slow as ever. It’s chest thumping at it’s finest.
The 87,000 is hiring over ten years. I don’t remember the exact numbers but during that ten year period they will be losing tens of thousands of employees due to retirement and normal attrition (people leaving for other jobs, illness or death, etc.). The 87,000 is a target. Whether or not they’ll hit the target is speculative.
I don’t condone cheating but some of the cheating is based on greed while other is based on the unfairness of the system as a whole. The word “fair” is a relative term. A fair tax would be a tax that provides the government with the finances to perform its Constitutional role. While technically the government may be doing that (spending approved by Congress) who is going to argue the trillions of dollars spent, hundreds of billions wasted or tens of billions simple unaccounted for are being coerced “fairly” from small EBay coin sellers? The word “fair” should never be used in a discussion of our system of taxation. Just because it’s in the tax code doesn’t make it fair.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@jmlanzaf said:
Personally, I would like everyone who owes to pay. It's only fair. If you don't owe anything, you don't pay anything. Filing is not that big of a deal if you sold $2000 worth of coins and made a couple hundred bucks.
Of course people should pay their taxes. You're missing the point though. The $600 limit, if applied rigorously, causes a huge amount of work for tax filers (and the IRS) and generates a trivial amount of revenue. There's probably hundreds of thousands of people who sold $600 to $10,000 of incidental goods on eBay, craigslist, garage sales, street corners, Instagram, and more. 99% of those people are selling used crap at a loss, especially if they apply the full extent of the deductions available to count against the sale (mileage, postage, storage fees, insurance, etc.), so there is no tax revenue. 0.9% may have ended up with a small profit by chance, maybe worth about $10 in tax revenue to the IRS. In exchange for that extremely small revenue, the IRS is forcing hundreds of thousands of formerly-simple-tax-form people to research the tax code, figure out Schedule C, determine if they are now a small business, buy the two-levels-higher version of Turbo Tax, hire a tax attorney, have an ucler over the thing, look for the receipt for the stuffed animal they purchased for their child in 2003, keep an accounting system for everything they ever bought because they might sell it some day, etc. Millions of man-hours of work for a tiny, tiny amount of tax revenue.
There's certainly a sales level where the amount of captured tax revenue justifies the amount of work the IRS is asking people to do. It's not $600 though.
@tincup said:
Yep.... they appear to be requiring more and more.
Must be why they are hiring 67,000 new IRS employees. To check more and more returns....
...just a reminder about the new requirement for the IRS agents being hired to collect from coin collectors trying to flip a coin for a buck! Don't Mess with the IRS!
They've been starved for funds for many years, afaik they are still running Fortran and Cobol in their computers. They will be updating customer service. The scare tactics are for high income evasion, for drug dealers and gangs in the cities.
I can assure you the latter two are not going to be in the IRS’s purview
@jessewvu said:
A few smart folks could create some Artificial intelligence to handle what 80,000 employees could do, easily. Why not get to coding?
They already have it. A computer cross checks the info on your return vs documents filed by others and when there is a mismatch, out pops a letter with a bill attached. If you disagree, you have to respond by letter or phone. There are not enough agents or customer service people to answer the phone. And I’m sure the backlog of cases each person is handling is extreme based on the length of time responses by letter take.
Add to that the random audits of people claiming tax credits where documents are requested by a computer. Those people who have filed correctly still have to wait months or even into the next tax filing season to get refunds approved because of the slow pace.
@tincup said:
Yep.... they appear to be requiring more and more.
Must be why they are hiring 67,000 new IRS employees. To check more and more returns....
...just a reminder about the new requirement for the IRS agents being hired to collect from coin collectors trying to flip a coin for a buck! Don't Mess with the IRS!
They've been starved for funds for many years, afaik they are still running Fortran and Cobol in their computers. They will be updating customer service. The scare tactics are for high income evasion, for drug dealers and gangs in the cities.
I can assure you the latter two are not going to be in the IRS’s purview
Guns = IRS/CID, when they've exhausted their contacts and patience in contacting citizens on criminal cases, not for civil tax matters. You have to wonder whose creative writing resulted in the tens of thousands of agents with guns and what working group agreed on that? I thought they were looking for more power to chase all the bank accounts and the cash economy which they did not get and was denied. I see far more in cash transactions with coin dealers and at flea market than in the general economy.
@jmlanzaf said: Filing is not that big of a deal if you sold $2000 worth of coins and made a couple hundred bucks.
There in lies the problem...
Filing IS a big deal with thousands upon thousands of IRS pages, interpreting laws Congress has enacted.
The US Tax Code is up to 60,000+ pages!
One needs to hire a tax professional to ensure they are filing correctly, including taking the proper deductions, etc. Then they have to pay for that tax professional (that they can then deduct the cost of the tax professional), etc...
Now $2000 worth of coins sold is a loss to the seller.
Oh, but wait, there's more - now the Loss can be used three out of the next 5 years to offset other earnings!
Yes, Filing is EASY!
/s
The problem is the tax cheats. I know a guy who has been selling collectibles on ebay for almost 20 years... and never declared the income until recently. How, you ask? I'll tell you.
Back in the day neither eBay nor PayPal had to report to the IRS. So he ignored the income. He did about 50,000 gross. I don't know his net. When PayPal was forced to report to the IRS at the $20,000 mark, he created separate accounts for his wife and daughter to keep all 3 counts under $20k.
Only now with the lower threshold is he going to be forced to declare. And he's PISSED. He's threatening to stop selling on eBay and go back to just selling at flea markets where he can continue to hide the income.
It's people like him that the IRS is trying to find. And they should. He's not only avoiding the taxes he owes, he's also creating an unfair sales advantage with the stolen money. He, of course, also doesn't charge sales tax at the flea market.
No one likes taxes. But fairness requires that everyone plays by the same rules. And when people don't voluntarily report, the IRS needs to go looking for them.
I wish the NY sales tax folks would go to coin shows and flea markets and nail those cheats also. Unfortunately, it's too large an enforcement job.
Not sure why you continue to side with the IRS and infer that so many taxpayers are cheats. Since there is no chance for a fair tax in my lifetime I will continue to deal with the IRS in a defensive way. That said, you may feel better if you overpaid your federal taxes knowing the IRS will breathe a little easier. I live in a state where a balanced budget allows them to give us back access funds. So I suppose the IRS will cinsider that income wont they.
@tincup said:
Yep.... they appear to be requiring more and more.
Must be why they are hiring 67,000 new IRS employees. To check more and more returns....
...just a reminder about the new requirement for the IRS agents being hired to collect from coin collectors trying to flip a coin for a buck! Don't Mess with the IRS!
They've been starved for funds for many years, afaik they are still running Fortran and Cobol in their computers. They will be updating customer service. The scare tactics are for high income evasion, for drug dealers and gangs in the cities.
I can assure you the latter two are not going to be in the IRS’s purview
Guns = IRS/CID, when they've exhausted their contacts and patience in contacting citizens on criminal cases, not for civil tax matters. You have to wonder whose creative writing resulted in the tens of thousands of agents with guns and what working group agreed on that? I thought they were looking for more power to chase all the bank accounts and the cash economy which they did not get and was denied. I see far more in cash transactions with coin dealers and at flea market than in the general economy.
I’m just saying they don’t have the training or experience to get money from gangs and drug dealers. It would Be too much overlap with local police and every other federal law enforcement agency.
…Unless the federal government wants them working with locals, DEA, etc. I’ve never seen it and I doubt it would Work.
How much does it cost the IRS to go after $600 profit from coin sales vs $20,000 profit from coin sales? Who would the audit? I wonder if that has anything to do with who gets audited?
@thebigeng said:
How much does it cost the IRS to go after $600 profit from coin sales vs $20,000 profit from coin sales? Who would the audit? I wonder if that has anything to do with who gets audited?
Revenue officers will only be assigned to major cases where an audit etc. would garner $10K or more, usually far more. It never fails to surprise how some citizens believe they are important enough to have gun toting agents to go after them. If you want to get the straight dope on this check out the Quatloos.com site where former IRS employees post on tax protestors.
@bigjpst said: A computer cross checks the info on your return vs documents filed by others and when there is a mismatch, out pops a letter with a bill attached. If you disagree, you have to respond by letter or phone. There are not enough agents or customer service people to answer the phone. And I’m sure the backlog of cases each person is handling is extreme based on the length of time responses by letter take.
Nowadays, with the IRS multiple years behind, the "computer cross checks" can create cascading problems. E.g., if you have an overpayment from a previous year, applied to subsequent year, but the IRS hasn't processed the earlier return yet. When the IRS processes the later return first, it will ZERO OUT your tax payment because it doesn't (yet) match IRS records and send you a collections notice. Good luck getting that fixed. This is not a hypothetical observation. Any time the IRS is matching against its own incomplete records, it can create a nightmare for the taxpayer.
As it pertains to a 1099-K, you have no choice but to report it. ** If you believe you lost money ** and your paperwork is messy or the summation of lots of small transactions, you could simply report costs that exactly match the revenues from sale. That would pass the first computer check, but it remains to be seen if "exactly zero" profit would trigger an IRS discriminant function check and trigger an audit. No one knows how aggressive the IRS will be in this new era we live in. Also no one knows if the IRS will be smart enough to differentiate between low-margin "business" like coin hobbies and high-margin businesses where profit is far more likely.
Your best bet is to maintain meticulous records of every transaction you've ever made, and demand detailed receipts from every coin dealer you've ever transacted with. Barring that, simply avoid platforms that issue 1099-Ks. Of course you should report profits if you have them, but that won't be common until you get to the end of your collecting years.
@bigjpst said: A computer cross checks the info on your return vs documents filed by others and when there is a mismatch, out pops a letter with a bill attached. If you disagree, you have to respond by letter or phone. There are not enough agents or customer service people to answer the phone. And I’m sure the backlog of cases each person is handling is extreme based on the length of time responses by letter take.
Nowadays, with the IRS multiple years behind, the "computer cross checks" can create cascading problems. E.g., if you have an overpayment from a previous year, applied to subsequent year, but the IRS hasn't processed the earlier return yet. When the IRS processes the later return first, it will ZERO OUT your tax payment because it doesn't (yet) match IRS records and send you a collections notice. Good luck getting that fixed. This is not a hypothetical observation. Any time the IRS is matching against its own incomplete records, it can create a nightmare for the taxpayer.
**This bolsters the arguement for why they need more agents. The current backlog and the lack of customer service available on the phone makes little computing errors nearly impossible to correct in a timely matter. Months of back and forth by letter is ridiculous. **
. No one knows how aggressive the IRS will be in this new era we live in. Also no one knows if the IRS will be smart enough to differentiate between low-margin "business" like coin hobbies and high-margin businesses where profit is far more likely.
The IRS uses the business classification numbers on Schedule C to determine the type of business. I have to assume this not only includes comparative margins, but also comparative cash payment vs electronic etc. to other businesses reporting. If you have a coin business or a construction business and only report income reported on a 1099, you are likely opening yourself up for an audit.
Your best bet is to maintain meticulous records of every transaction you've ever made, and demand detailed receipts from every coin dealer you've ever transacted with. Barring that, simply avoid platforms that issue 1099-Ks. Of course you should report profits if you have them, but that won't be common until you get to the end of your collecting years.
Comments
If the Intiut website is accurate, the Turbotax version I need costs a little over $100. The accountant who does my taxes charges me $250 and he used to work for the IRS. It's worth it to me to pay $150 more to have someone who knows what he's doing handling my return and not have to deal with software updates or worrying that I might have entered something wrong.
That seems to be regularly misunderstood. Unless, of course, the people complaining here were intending to not declare income from their sales.
Everything, including taxes, have gone up in the last 2 years more than ever has in the last 14 years.
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Maybe let them win once and you will not be "audited all the time". Just a thought.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Yep agree. It's not rocket science. If you cheat on your taxes be prepared to suffer the consequences. Lock em up. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
The idea that the irs can suddenly find 87,000 agents to hire out of thin air is hilarious. They are probably short staffed in every department. We work with one of their departments in my line of work and they are as slow as ever. It’s chest thumping at it’s finest.
The biggest lie!
I'm here from the government and I'm here to help.
Anyone ever notice when they "need" more money, cutting their budget, useless programs, or any politicians perks aren't spoken about? If there is an honest bone among them, it was broken years ago. The percentage they steal from the citizen is in outrageous!
Makes me wonder if everyone decided to stop paying the extortion rate, where would they imprison all of us....lol of course. Write in to your representative who represents who in reality? I will do it, but have little faith it changes anything. Didn't the Beetles have a song about the Tax Man?
Cheers my friends, may each day be loved and appreciated
Come on, guys. Political comments are against the rules here and they definitely aren't tolerated. I'd hate to see any of you guys get banned.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The 87,000 is hiring over ten years. I don’t remember the exact numbers but during that ten year period they will be losing tens of thousands of employees due to retirement and normal attrition (people leaving for other jobs, illness or death, etc.). The 87,000 is a target. Whether or not they’ll hit the target is speculative.
I don’t condone cheating but some of the cheating is based on greed while other is based on the unfairness of the system as a whole. The word “fair” is a relative term. A fair tax would be a tax that provides the government with the finances to perform its Constitutional role. While technically the government may be doing that (spending approved by Congress) who is going to argue the trillions of dollars spent, hundreds of billions wasted or tens of billions simple unaccounted for are being coerced “fairly” from small EBay coin sellers? The word “fair” should never be used in a discussion of our system of taxation. Just because it’s in the tax code doesn’t make it fair.
A few smart folks could create some Artificial intelligence to handle what 80,000 employees could do, easily. Why not get to coding?
Of course people should pay their taxes. You're missing the point though. The $600 limit, if applied rigorously, causes a huge amount of work for tax filers (and the IRS) and generates a trivial amount of revenue. There's probably hundreds of thousands of people who sold $600 to $10,000 of incidental goods on eBay, craigslist, garage sales, street corners, Instagram, and more. 99% of those people are selling used crap at a loss, especially if they apply the full extent of the deductions available to count against the sale (mileage, postage, storage fees, insurance, etc.), so there is no tax revenue. 0.9% may have ended up with a small profit by chance, maybe worth about $10 in tax revenue to the IRS. In exchange for that extremely small revenue, the IRS is forcing hundreds of thousands of formerly-simple-tax-form people to research the tax code, figure out Schedule C, determine if they are now a small business, buy the two-levels-higher version of Turbo Tax, hire a tax attorney, have an ucler over the thing, look for the receipt for the stuffed animal they purchased for their child in 2003, keep an accounting system for everything they ever bought because they might sell it some day, etc. Millions of man-hours of work for a tiny, tiny amount of tax revenue.
There's certainly a sales level where the amount of captured tax revenue justifies the amount of work the IRS is asking people to do. It's not $600 though.
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I can assure you the latter two are not going to be in the IRS’s purview
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
They already have it. A computer cross checks the info on your return vs documents filed by others and when there is a mismatch, out pops a letter with a bill attached. If you disagree, you have to respond by letter or phone. There are not enough agents or customer service people to answer the phone. And I’m sure the backlog of cases each person is handling is extreme based on the length of time responses by letter take.
Add to that the random audits of people claiming tax credits where documents are requested by a computer. Those people who have filed correctly still have to wait months or even into the next tax filing season to get refunds approved because of the slow pace.
My Ebay Store
Guns = IRS/CID, when they've exhausted their contacts and patience in contacting citizens on criminal cases, not for civil tax matters. You have to wonder whose creative writing resulted in the tens of thousands of agents with guns and what working group agreed on that? I thought they were looking for more power to chase all the bank accounts and the cash economy which they did not get and was denied. I see far more in cash transactions with coin dealers and at flea market than in the general economy.
Doesn't the IRS have their own armed 'police force' now?
I shudder to think how society will be in 20 years from now.
Freedoms are definitely being stripped away from us.
Things go in cycles which take decades to reverse course and this 'freedom-stripping' cycle has not seen its end by no means.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Not sure why you continue to side with the IRS and infer that so many taxpayers are cheats. Since there is no chance for a fair tax in my lifetime I will continue to deal with the IRS in a defensive way. That said, you may feel better if you overpaid your federal taxes knowing the IRS will breathe a little easier. I live in a state where a balanced budget allows them to give us back access funds. So I suppose the IRS will cinsider that income wont they.
I’m just saying they don’t have the training or experience to get money from gangs and drug dealers. It would Be too much overlap with local police and every other federal law enforcement agency.
…Unless the federal government wants them working with locals, DEA, etc. I’ve never seen it and I doubt it would Work.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
@AUandAG
And yet they continue down the long winded path way off course...🤣😂
It would have been more accurate to say “And yet we continue down the long winded path way off course...🤣😂”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Dreamland. Eliminate the bureaucracy, institute a flat tax.
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How much does it cost the IRS to go after $600 profit from coin sales vs $20,000 profit from coin sales? Who would the audit? I wonder if that has anything to do with who gets audited?
Revenue officers will only be assigned to major cases where an audit etc. would garner $10K or more, usually far more. It never fails to surprise how some citizens believe they are important enough to have gun toting agents to go after them. If you want to get the straight dope on this check out the Quatloos.com site where former IRS employees post on tax protestors.
Audit rates are at all time lows. https://www.dcreport.org/2021/06/26/how-trumps-toothless-irs-let-the-rich-off-easy/
Think this thread is in need of an audit now. Quite a bit of innuendo and feelings, with some facts being held secretly in offshore accounts.
10-4,
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Nowadays, with the IRS multiple years behind, the "computer cross checks" can create cascading problems. E.g., if you have an overpayment from a previous year, applied to subsequent year, but the IRS hasn't processed the earlier return yet. When the IRS processes the later return first, it will ZERO OUT your tax payment because it doesn't (yet) match IRS records and send you a collections notice. Good luck getting that fixed. This is not a hypothetical observation. Any time the IRS is matching against its own incomplete records, it can create a nightmare for the taxpayer.
As it pertains to a 1099-K, you have no choice but to report it. ** If you believe you lost money ** and your paperwork is messy or the summation of lots of small transactions, you could simply report costs that exactly match the revenues from sale. That would pass the first computer check, but it remains to be seen if "exactly zero" profit would trigger an IRS discriminant function check and trigger an audit. No one knows how aggressive the IRS will be in this new era we live in. Also no one knows if the IRS will be smart enough to differentiate between low-margin "business" like coin hobbies and high-margin businesses where profit is far more likely.
Your best bet is to maintain meticulous records of every transaction you've ever made, and demand detailed receipts from every coin dealer you've ever transacted with. Barring that, simply avoid platforms that issue 1099-Ks. Of course you should report profits if you have them, but that won't be common until you get to the end of your collecting years.
**This bolsters the arguement for why they need more agents. The current backlog and the lack of customer service available on the phone makes little computing errors nearly impossible to correct in a timely matter. Months of back and forth by letter is ridiculous. **
. No one knows how aggressive the IRS will be in this new era we live in. Also no one knows if the IRS will be smart enough to differentiate between low-margin "business" like coin hobbies and high-margin businesses where profit is far more likely.
The IRS uses the business classification numbers on Schedule C to determine the type of business. I have to assume this not only includes comparative margins, but also comparative cash payment vs electronic etc. to other businesses reporting. If you have a coin business or a construction business and only report income reported on a 1099, you are likely opening yourself up for an audit.
**I agree. Good records are your best friend. **>
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