The difficult part is that doesn't mean there won't or can't be earlier First Strike issues. I've seen Silver Eagles with FS labels from the 90's. Presumably kept in sealed mint boxes until PCGS opened them.
@JonJet said:
I guess I'm now wondering why anyone would make such a request...
FDOI is certainly a First Strike Coin - We all can agree
It seems My insistence above that a submission would be needed is also correct
But why would it be an advantage to give up the FDOI or FS designation?
By definition...the FDOI and FS labels should be the most collectable and the most desired...unless You simply don't like the holder
The COIN earns the Grade - and the Grade should determine the Value
But I am struggling to understand the mentality behind such a request to remove the FDOI/FS designation
The possibility of designation removal was mentioned earlier in this thread. I simply inquired about it when I had PCGS on the phone, and reported their response.
In fact, as @ProofCollection suggested, the rationale of label consistency came up during the discussion.
For the record, I am NOT endorsing this practice; just determining whether it is feasible.
@WAYNEAS said:
IMHO,
PCGS should only grade the coin and not the label attached to it.
A PR70DCAM would and should garner a 71.0 rating in all cases and registry sets.
FDOI, FIRST STRIKE and Signature coins already carry a premium in the selling and buying price.
By adding additional points for these labels, it becomes a marketing ploy to drive up profit for sellers.
The everyday collector has no ability to purchase FDOI coins directly from the mint and shipped to our host for grading.
They can only acquire them from a second party selling them.
I buy the grade and not the label.
My PR70 DCAM is the same as your PR70 DCAM in set rankings.
Adding label points opens Pandora's Box.
Next, we will be giving extra registry points for vintage holders.
We have just seen what a special label can do to registry set rankings.
The 2021 proof set had a pop 1 Label and was awarded a .053 increase in rankings tanking the other #1 sets to the #2 position. The coin was a 2021 S North Carolina Innovation dollar that was graded PR70 DCAM.
Where do we stop?
Wayne
I totally agree with your write up. I do not post much, but noticed this and had to say something. I went out of my way to be sure my American SIlver Eagles Burnished version, were all PCGS and ALL SP70. With the last submission, an SP70 2022 W was not given a 71, rather a 70. That being the only coin of the entire set that was not rated 71. I think the system is flawed and if you don't pay for a FS or FDOI, you get the 70. Not that it matters that much to me, it just seems that this is nothing more than a money making deal for PCGS. My 2 cents. Thanks.
@RodgerC said:
I totally agree with your write up. I do not post much, but noticed this and had to say something. I went out of my way to be sure my American SIlver Eagles Burnished version, were all PCGS and ALL SP70. With the last submission, an SP70 2022 W was not given a 71, rather a 70. That being the only coin of the entire set that was not rated 71. I think the system is flawed and if you don't pay for a FS or FDOI, you get the 70. Not that it matters that much to me, it just seems that this is nothing more than a money making deal for PCGS. My 2 cents. Thanks.
Money-Making Deal???
Are You saying that because PCGS created the FDOI designation that they do not have the rights to distribute them as they choose?
If I follow Your line of thinking...I should then be able to buy a new Dodge Challenger S/RT Hellcat from a Nissan Dealer and get the Factory Warranty at a Nissan price
*Why should Dodge have the right to say who can sell it's new models?
Why don't we all buy gas at the refinery...and eliminate the profit-seeking gas stations that President Biden blames for the high gas prices?
Why don't we buy groceries from the farmer that grew them...or are we all afraid of the Farmers Wife when we need to return rotten meat or sour milk?
PCGS created the designation - thereby giving them exclusive right to determine how they would be marketed - in the case of the FDOI Label - they decided to market them only thru authorized PCGS Dealers who have a purchase agreement with the US Mint to ship those coins directly to PCGS for grading
@JonJet said:
Why is a PR70DCAM coin even weighted? It's the best possible grade
Not slightly less than double-best
Not even double-best
Not triple-best and greater
It's just a coin - graded perfect - and deserves 71 - No More - No Less
Promotions - Giveaways - Contests - Events - Labels - Pedigrees - Bonus - Summersault - CircleJump - DoThehokeyPokey and Bang Head on Wall while tapping head and rubbing tummy
All inconsequential to the coin itself
Perfect is PR70DCAM - No coin can earn more based on the Sheldon Scale
Pf 70 DCam coins are not necessarily the best coins to be had. For instance some Pf 70 DCam Ikes are out classed by the few NGC Pf 69 Star Ultra Cameo that exist. I've only seen a few PCGS Pf 70 DCams that are early enough strikes to qualify for best coins.
Pf 70 DCam coins are not necessarily the best coins to be had. For instance some Pf 70 DCam Ikes are out classed by the few NGC Pf 69 Star Ultra Cameo that exist. I've only seen a few PCGS Pf 70 DCams that are early enough strikes to qualify for best coins.
That sounds like more opinion than fact...
Are You a qualified Coin Grader that knows something We do not?
Pf 70 DCam coins are not necessarily the best coins to be had. For instance some Pf 70 DCam Ikes are out classed by the few NGC Pf 69 Star Ultra Cameos that exist. I've only seen a few PCGS Pf 70 DCams that are early enough strikes to qualify for best coins.
That sounds like more opinion than fact...
Are You a qualified Coin Grader that knows something We do not?
Do You have relevance for Your claim?
Of course grading is an opinion. And because collectors would value the earliest strikes from new dies, NGC will identify those coins with a Star.
Comments
The difficult part is that doesn't mean there won't or can't be earlier First Strike issues. I've seen Silver Eagles with FS labels from the 90's. Presumably kept in sealed mint boxes until PCGS opened them.
The possibility of designation removal was mentioned earlier in this thread. I simply inquired about it when I had PCGS on the phone, and reported their response.
In fact, as @ProofCollection suggested, the rationale of label consistency came up during the discussion.
For the record, I am NOT endorsing this practice; just determining whether it is feasible.
Economics might provide an answer...as I indicated in an above post
If You want a modern coin in another label...why not just buy it...and sell the one You replaced
Rather than spend the reholder fee / wait the time / have the same coin returned
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
I totally agree with your write up. I do not post much, but noticed this and had to say something. I went out of my way to be sure my American SIlver Eagles Burnished version, were all PCGS and ALL SP70. With the last submission, an SP70 2022 W was not given a 71, rather a 70. That being the only coin of the entire set that was not rated 71. I think the system is flawed and if you don't pay for a FS or FDOI, you get the 70. Not that it matters that much to me, it just seems that this is nothing more than a money making deal for PCGS. My 2 cents. Thanks.
Money-Making Deal???
Are You saying that because PCGS created the FDOI designation that they do not have the rights to distribute them as they choose?
If I follow Your line of thinking...I should then be able to buy a new Dodge Challenger S/RT Hellcat from a Nissan Dealer and get the Factory Warranty at a Nissan price
*Why should Dodge have the right to say who can sell it's new models?
Why don't we all buy gas at the refinery...and eliminate the profit-seeking gas stations that President Biden blames for the high gas prices?
Why don't we buy groceries from the farmer that grew them...or are we all afraid of the Farmers Wife when we need to return rotten meat or sour milk?
PCGS created the designation - thereby giving them exclusive right to determine how they would be marketed - in the case of the FDOI Label - they decided to market them only thru authorized PCGS Dealers who have a purchase agreement with the US Mint to ship those coins directly to PCGS for grading
Stop The Insanity - it's not even worth 2 cents
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
Pf 70 DCam coins are not necessarily the best coins to be had. For instance some Pf 70 DCam Ikes are out classed by the few NGC Pf 69 Star Ultra Cameo that exist. I've only seen a few PCGS Pf 70 DCams that are early enough strikes to qualify for best coins.
Pf 70 DCam coins are not necessarily the best coins to be had. For instance some Pf 70 DCam Ikes are out classed by the few NGC Pf 69 Star Ultra Cameo that exist. I've only seen a few PCGS Pf 70 DCams that are early enough strikes to qualify for best coins.
That sounds like more opinion than fact...
Are You a qualified Coin Grader that knows something We do not?
Do You have relevance for Your claim?
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
Of course grading is an opinion. And because collectors would value the earliest strikes from new dies, NGC will identify those coins with a Star.
I dunno where You get Your lopsided-hero information...
The US Mint does not keep track of which coins were minted from which dies
First Day Of Issue - First Strike - Early Release labels are based on the date the grading service received the coin
So Your "star" claim that the coin was struck first is nothing short of blasphemy
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold