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NGC or PCGS for old world coins to be slabbed?
Herb_T
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I have found a number of coins that are graded by NGC but not really any by PCGS. The attached photos below give an idea of the type of coins. Is this because PCGS isn’t really set up to do grading on these ancient coins?
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Ask on world coin forum
Be diplomatic on a pcgs forum
I don't believe PCGS certifies ancients unless something has changed very recently I am unaware of.
Agree. Only NGC and ANACS authenticates, grades, and then slabs ancient coins.
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Source: https://www.pcgs.com/faq
Thank you everyone!
They grade World coins much earlier than 1600, but not ancients. I have several from before 1600, the earliest being a groat of Henry VI (1430-31). The earliest I've seen in a PCGS holder is an 8th century Anglo-Saxon sceat, I think.
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Thanks for the information. I appreciate it.
I’ve seen pics of some coins from the Middle Ages slabbed by PCGS but NGC is clearly the current service of choice for both ancients and dark ages/medieval coinage. I’ve read that there just aren’t enough experts to go around and it takes a good long time to sift through everything to identify a piece and ensure it is not a contemporary or later counterfeit as so many are.
NGC doesn’t guarantee authenticity for their ancient coins. They only guarantee the grade. The fact that NGC doesn’t guarantee authenticity one of the main criticisms against their service. Reputable auction houses and dealers such as Classical Numismatics Group (CNG) and Harlan Berk guarantee the authenticity of their raw ancients, making NGC’s services redundant.
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pops, price guide, coinfacts and registry etc set can give a lot of info, even above information pages sometimes.
if pcgs is grading something, believe you me, people will be submitting them and they will reflect in the pops.
I thought they only graded and slabbed them. No authentication. Correct me if I am wrong.
Of course they authenticate them. Why would they grade and slab a coin that they knew to be fake?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
They authenticate them in that they won’t knowingly slab a ancient coin they think is fake. However the NGC guarantee doesn’t apply to the authenticity of ancient coins according to the NGC website. In the rare chance that a coin is fake, NGC Ancients won’t be held liable. Auction houses and dealers like CNG, Roma, and Vcoins do guarantee authenticity and will be liable in the rare chance a coin happens to be fake.
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By my way of thinking, if the authentication isn't guaranteed then it isn't authenticated.
Wow! That I did not know.
I have received several ancient coins back from NGC identified as authenticity unverifiable. So, I assumed that their guarantee covered such issues. BTW, in each case, at the insistence of other dealer friends, I mentioned the matter to the dealer I bought it from. In each case, other dealers viewed the coin and the general consensus was that the coins were authentic. And, in each case, the dealer insisted upon buying the coin back from me.
Tom
“> @PerryHall said:
“ Authenticity and attribution represent the opinion of NGC Ancients and are not guaranteed, nor is any guarantee implied.”
https://www.ngccoin.com/specialty-services/ancient-coins/
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Don’t get me wrong, NGC has a great team of experts. The director David Vagi, and his assistant Barry Murphy are well respected ancient numismatists. So any coin they handle are most likely genuine.
However, NGC shouldn’t be seen as the end all and final word in regards to authenticity. There is more peace of mind in regards to the authenticity of ancient coins if they passed through the hands of multiple dealers and auction houses over the years. NGC certification should be seen as merely a single set of hands and eyes within the vetting process of ancient coins.
This is why provenance/pedigree is more important for ancient coins compared to US coins. Unless your US coin was formerly owned by Eliasberg or Pougue, nobody cares much about the ownership history of US coins. A Bust dollar having been sold by Heritage in the past year doesn’t mean much to collectors. However, provenance and ownership history means a lot for ancient coins due to their widespread counterfeiting. Where you bought an ancient coin matters much. Obviously, a Greek/Roman coin with a history of being sold in CNG, Roma, Harlan Berk, and Stacks within a span of a couple decades will have little doubt to its authenticity due to passing through the hands of so many experts. Ancient coins with long provenance tied to auctions and dealers command a premium. Ancient coins that were formerly owned by the authors of reference guides are also desirable. A coveted pedigree for Greek coins is being ex BCD collection. BCD was an author of the reference guides of coins from Thessaly, with some coins from his collection being used as plate images in the books. Obviously, ancient coins once owned by the authors of reference guides have little doubts to authenticity. Nations like Italy, Greece, and Turkey have made restrictions regarding the export and sale of cultural antiquties (MOU). If you know the provenance and ownership history of your ancient coin, it can be exempt from such resurrections due to a grandfather clause.
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