Great thread by the way.
It's good to know we have a resident Exonumia expert here to share your wealth of knowledge within this fascinating subset of Numismatics.
I would certainly like nicer pieces, but it could take a lot of waiting... decades on some items it seems; here's another new pedigree.... Maurice Storck ... being auctioned soon by HA.com:
Here is information on Maurice Storck, the Tuscon collector:
John T. Dean has many so-called dollars and a major modern National Commemorative set to go along with his book and many are graded by ANACS and his personal label with several medals including the Cradle of the Union gold and gold bicentennial on them. Picture below. So he should be on the list I think.
I know I should not usually break these special ANACS slabs up, but I wanted True Views, a PCGS Secure holder, and a lower grade, so I sent several of them them to our hosts. Some are now in my National Commemoratives of the US Mint Medal Set that John documented in his book from 2012, and he has helped me find a few key medals to include in my set along, with Jeff Shevlin for several years now.
Here is a David Snider / Cosmique and Gotham piece. Nice to see both on there.
Gotham was sold on June 7, 2008 by Presidential Coin & Antique Company while Cosmique was sold in the 1990s per @ScarsdaleCoin. Nice to know the Gotham collector was based in NYC and collected SCD and ANS medals.
Presidential Coin & Antique Company will hold its 78th Exonumia Sale at 5:30 p.m. on June 7. The sale will feature The James A. Thompson Collection of Washingtonia and The Gotham Collection of So-called Dollars. For more information, call Joseph Levine at (571) 321-2121.
I purchased the Ostheimer Collection of So-Called Dollars. I had this SCD graded by NGC many years ago. The Ostheimer pedigree is on all the SCDs I submitted to NGC through Florida Dealer Ernie Latter. The pedigrees were written on the Ostheimer's 2X2 paper envelopes, and where we had additional pedigree information NGC would add to the holder (where there was room).
NN is New Netherlands Coin Company in New York. From a document in the American Numismatic Society (ANS), "Coin dealer Moritz Wormser (1878-1940) formed New Netherlands Coin Company in New York City in 1936. His son Charles (1911-1990), an associate of the company from the time of its founding, ran the firm after his father’s death. In 1950 Charles invited John J. Ford to assist him and he shortly became a full partner running the business. The company closed in 1988."
Thus this pedigree information is the coin company that the Ostheimer's bought the SCD from.
@WDP said:
I purchased the Ostheimer Collection of So-Called Dollars. I had this SCD graded by NGC many years ago. The Ostheimer pedigree is on all the SCDs I submitted to NGC through Florida Dealer Ernie Latter. The pedigrees were written on the Ostheimer's 2X2 paper envelopes, and where we had additional pedigree information NGC would add to the holder (where there was room).
NN is New Netherlands Coin Company in New York. From a document in the American Numismatic Society (ANS), "Coin dealer Moritz Wormser (1878-1940) formed New Netherlands Coin Company in New York City in 1936. His son Charles (1911-1990), an associate of the company from the time of its founding, ran the firm after his father’s death. In 1950 Charles invited John J. Ford to assist him and he shortly became a full partner running the business. The company closed in 1988."
Thus this pedigree information is the coin company that the Ostheimer's bought the SCD from.
Great info WDP!
I'm a big supported of keeping track of dealers tht have handled coins. You see this a lot with more expensive coins like 1913 nickels but less so with less expensive coins. I personally like all information so knowing how the dealers are is a big plus for me!
I just caught up on the thread and looked over the list. I suppose my comment will fall flat on some members and maybe anger others, so I'll predicate it on the opening sentence of the OP's thread starter --- How many famous So-Called Dollar (SCD) collections and pedigrees are there?
the words "famous" and "collections" are what stand out to me. granted, other members are more knowledgeable about the History of So-Called Dollars collecting than I am, but simply having a name attached to an NGC/ANACS slab insert shouldn't be a qualifier, should it?? not to disparage NGC, but they have a history of "pay to play" for lack of a better term. it isn't so much in play today as in the past, but it really hasn't been hard to have them encapsulate anything or to attach a name to a tag if the submission, and hence the money, is large enough. also, many old-time collections/collectors had a variety of Exonumia included in their holdings. this means that if they contracted with NGC to encapsulate the collection and add provenance that everything would have that. would that necessarily mean that a large collection which includes a handful of medals and a provenance denotes the collector as a "famous So-Called Dollar" collector??
I can only make suggestions but some parameter might be helpful, otherwise any name attached to a SC$ will be seen as noteworthy when that collector may have only had a passing interest in the medals, perhaps only acquiring them in a purchased collection and keeping them.
these are only passing thoughts, by the way, JMHO.
I agree there's a difference between a collector that focuses on So-Called Dollars and a famous collector that happens to have a few So-Called Dollars. I think both are very interesting but because they are different, they can be classified differently. A third type of collector is one that has a provenance on a slab but very little is known about him or her. Given the lack of information on provenances for So-Called Dollars, I even think these are interesting. Perhaps to start, we can segregate the list into these 3 categories.
John, it is your list so it can run as you like. my thoughts were meant to be thought provoking only. what would be of most help is for long term collectors or dealers to provide any biographical information or links to the Provenance names so far on the list. some we know, others appear to be almost unknown to everyone with only a few certs, if that many.
No worries Al. They are good thoughts and thanks to everyone here, the list has evolved quite nicely. In my mind, it's only because we have all these names, we can and should move to the next stage of describing the collections. Ideally, we could get to the point of tracking provenances better for individual pieces by going through old catalogs like for the Friedman and Gotham collections.
@keets said:
two new names I had never heard of, currently being offered by DLC Auctions:
--- the Broad Bay Collection.
--- the Salvatore Falcone Collection.
Thinking back to what you wrote on better and less well-known provenances, given that many So-Called collections are noted by how broad they are, perhaps a public registry where anyone can add a HK number for any collector is the way to go, like Ancestry.com. The collections could be known for and ranked by their breadth. Of course this could take into account quality and specialist collections of certain SCDs.
Salvatore Falcone is a dealer here in California... i've met him several times at the Long Beach Show as well as at one of the smaller Western States Numismatics Shows in Jackson, CA
Here's a new one .... JEM Collection... new to me....
A So-Called Dollar and Slug Collector... Previously "Pioneer" on this site...
@Pioneer1 said:
Salvatore Falcone is a dealer here in California... i've met him several times at the Long Beach Show as well as at one of the smaller Western States Numismatics Shows in Jackson, CA
Great info. Looks like Salvatore Falcone sold his collection via Fred Holabird back on March 7, 2019. Holabird doesn't have full slab photos so I can't tell is Falcone is on the slab inserts.
I added him to the list in the OP. Is he still collecting?
Just ran across what seems to be a significant collection from Tim and Marlee Gabriele sold at various times on Stack's.
An interesting thing is that all the So-Called Dollar sales are attributed to Tim and Marlee while his Merchant Token collection sold this year was only attributed to Tim. Seems like his wife is an active So-Called Dollar collector!
I was just going through Stack's and looking at some of the Tim and Marlee Gabriele pieces. They had quite a few top pops which is very impressive. Also interesting is that a number of them didn't meet the reserve.
@WDP said:
I purchased the Ostheimer Collection of So-Called Dollars. I had this SCD graded by NGC many years ago. The Ostheimer pedigree is on all the SCDs I submitted to NGC through Florida Dealer Ernie Latter. The pedigrees were written on the Ostheimer's 2X2 paper envelopes, and where we had additional pedigree information NGC would add to the holder (where there was room).
Thanks for having the Ostheimer pedigree added. It's so important to track these!
I was just looking at HK-23 plate coin which has the Ostheimer pedigree on the holder but isn't mentioned by Stack's at all in the lot description. So a huge thanks for adding these and a reminder of how important the pedigree is on the holders!
Stack's Bowers wrote: 1876 U.S. Centennial Exposition. Liberty Bell-Independence Hall Dollar. Silver. 38 mm. HK-23. Rarity-8. MS-63 (NGC).
Vibrant semi-prooflike fields support satiny devices on both sides of this lightly toned, olive-apricot example. Designed by Key of Philadelphia and struck and issued by Deihl of the same city. One of numerous medallic tributes to America on her 100th birthday, this medal features the Liberty Bell, a national treasure cast in bronze by John Pass and Charles Stow. The bell is three feet tall, 12 feet around at the rim, and weighs 2,080 pounds. It cracked in 1752 and was recast by Pass and Stow the following year. In 1835 it cracked beyond fixing and has been on display at Independence Hall in Philadelphia for more than a century, fitting surroundings for America's most famous bell.
There is a HUGE difference between someone who is a discerning "COLLECTOR" and someone who simply makes a market in them.
Just my 2¢
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
@Lazybones said:
There is a HUGE difference between someone who is a discerning "COLLECTOR" and someone who simply makes a market in them.
Just my 2¢
I agree there is a huge difference between the two, but what are your thoughts about tracking each?
The great coins are tracked by both collectors and dealers.
I personally hold little to no value in the pedigree. While some would argue that certain pedigrees carry weight because the collector was world famous for his/her quality collection, there are totally unknown collectors that have a great eye but not the budget.
Take Eliasberg, for example. How many rolls of V Nickels did PCGS slab from his hoard of rolls? Not many were terribly noteworthy, but they trade high because his name is on the label.
Coins, medals, etc. should stand on their own merits.
Does that make this 4¢?
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
@Lazybones said:
There is a HUGE difference between someone who is a discerning "COLLECTOR" and someone who simply makes a market in them.
Just my 2¢
I agree there is a huge difference between the two, but what are your thoughts about tracking each?
The great coins are tracked by both collectors and dealers.
I personally hold little to no value in the pedigree. While some would argue that certain pedigrees carry weight because the collector was world famous for his/her quality collection, there are totally unknown collectors that have a great eye but not the budget.
Take Eliasberg, for example. How many rolls of V Nickels did PCGS slab from his hoard of rolls? Not many were terribly noteworthy, but they trade high because his name is on the label.
Coins, medals, etc. should stand on their own merits.
Does that make this 4¢?
It makes sense that you, and others, would feel that way, so thank you for your thoughts. At the same time, it also makes sense that others would feel differently. A great thing about this hobby is that people can enjoy the hobby in different ways.
I will say that a great thing about the provenances on this list is that many otherwise unknown collectors can be recognized for their names on the inserts, so I think ATS is doing the hobby a huge service here. A great thing here is that otherwise unknown collectors can be recognized for their great eye, even for low budget items, since some So-Called Dollars are very rare and were very inexpensive for many decades.
Check out this list for the 1913 Liberty Head Nickels:
@keets said:
two new names I had never heard of, currently being offered by DLC Auctions:
--- the Broad Bay Collection.
--- the Salvatore Falcone Collection.
I just ran across the Broad Bay Collection again while searching for Leshers.
It would be great to know more about these collections. It seems to be mentioned on just 2 pages with references to just 2 pieces of the over 100 sold. The pedigree isn't listed in the lot descriptions so it may be difficult to connect them.
David Lawrence RC said:
This week we are excited to offer an intriguing new collection – the Broad Bay Collection of So-Called Dollars. "So-Called Dollars" are medals from the 1800s and 1900s roughly the size of a silver dollar that were commonly struck to commemorate historic events. Lesher dollars however, weren’t born from a specific event, but were instead minted with the purpose of circulating, unlike most other So-Called Dollars.
Comments
Great thread by the way.
It's good to know we have a resident Exonumia expert here to share your wealth of knowledge within this fascinating subset of Numismatics.
I would certainly like nicer pieces, but it could take a lot of waiting... decades on some items it seems; here's another new pedigree.... Maurice Storck ... being auctioned soon by HA.com:
Here is information on Maurice Storck, the Tuscon collector:
https://bringfuneralhome.com/tribute/details/162135/Maurice-Storck/obituary.html
A So-Called Dollar and Slug Collector... Previously "Pioneer" on this site...
John T. Dean has many so-called dollars and a major modern National Commemorative set to go along with his book and many are graded by ANACS and his personal label with several medals including the Cradle of the Union gold and gold bicentennial on them. Picture below. So he should be on the list I think.
I know I should not usually break these special ANACS slabs up, but I wanted True Views, a PCGS Secure holder, and a lower grade, so I sent several of them them to our hosts. Some are now in my National Commemoratives of the US Mint Medal Set that John documented in his book from 2012, and he has helped me find a few key medals to include in my set along, with Jeff Shevlin for several years now.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Thanks for posting the John Dean insert. It’s good to see.
Why did you want a lower grade? Did our hosts grant your wish?
Here is a David Snider / Cosmique and Gotham piece. Nice to see both on there.
Gotham was sold on June 7, 2008 by Presidential Coin & Antique Company while Cosmique was sold in the 1990s per @ScarsdaleCoin. Nice to know the Gotham collector was based in NYC and collected SCD and ANS medals.
https://www.numismaticnews.net/article/design_your_own_note_in_baltimore
A number of Cosmique and Bear pieces were in Goldberg Sale 51 back on February 1-4, 2009.
http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/chap_auc.php?site=1&lang=1&sale=51&chapter=42&page=2
Just added Louis Edward Eliasberg, Sr. to the list.
This is from Howard Hornreich's collection.
N.N. Coin Co
A So-Called Dollar and Slug Collector... Previously "Pioneer" on this site...
Wow, that's great. It's great to see a provenance from before the Ostheimers.
Who was / is N.N. Coin Company? I did some quick Google searches but nothing has come up yet.
I purchased the Ostheimer Collection of So-Called Dollars. I had this SCD graded by NGC many years ago. The Ostheimer pedigree is on all the SCDs I submitted to NGC through Florida Dealer Ernie Latter. The pedigrees were written on the Ostheimer's 2X2 paper envelopes, and where we had additional pedigree information NGC would add to the holder (where there was room).
NN is New Netherlands Coin Company in New York. From a document in the American Numismatic Society (ANS), "Coin dealer Moritz Wormser (1878-1940) formed New Netherlands Coin Company in New York City in 1936. His son Charles (1911-1990), an associate of the company from the time of its founding, ran the firm after his father’s death. In 1950 Charles invited John J. Ford to assist him and he shortly became a full partner running the business. The company closed in 1988."
Thus this pedigree information is the coin company that the Ostheimer's bought the SCD from.
W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN
Great info WDP!
I'm a big supported of keeping track of dealers tht have handled coins. You see this a lot with more expensive coins like 1913 nickels but less so with less expensive coins. I personally like all information so knowing how the dealers are is a big plus for me!
I just caught up on the thread and looked over the list. I suppose my comment will fall flat on some members and maybe anger others, so I'll predicate it on the opening sentence of the OP's thread starter --- How many famous So-Called Dollar (SCD) collections and pedigrees are there?
the words "famous" and "collections" are what stand out to me. granted, other members are more knowledgeable about the History of So-Called Dollars collecting than I am, but simply having a name attached to an NGC/ANACS slab insert shouldn't be a qualifier, should it?? not to disparage NGC, but they have a history of "pay to play" for lack of a better term. it isn't so much in play today as in the past, but it really hasn't been hard to have them encapsulate anything or to attach a name to a tag if the submission, and hence the money, is large enough. also, many old-time collections/collectors had a variety of Exonumia included in their holdings. this means that if they contracted with NGC to encapsulate the collection and add provenance that everything would have that. would that necessarily mean that a large collection which includes a handful of medals and a provenance denotes the collector as a "famous So-Called Dollar" collector??
I can only make suggestions but some parameter might be helpful, otherwise any name attached to a SC$ will be seen as noteworthy when that collector may have only had a passing interest in the medals, perhaps only acquiring them in a purchased collection and keeping them.
these are only passing thoughts, by the way, JMHO.
I agree there's a difference between a collector that focuses on So-Called Dollars and a famous collector that happens to have a few So-Called Dollars. I think both are very interesting but because they are different, they can be classified differently. A third type of collector is one that has a provenance on a slab but very little is known about him or her. Given the lack of information on provenances for So-Called Dollars, I even think these are interesting. Perhaps to start, we can segregate the list into these 3 categories.
John, it is your list so it can run as you like. my thoughts were meant to be thought provoking only. what would be of most help is for long term collectors or dealers to provide any biographical information or links to the Provenance names so far on the list. some we know, others appear to be almost unknown to everyone with only a few certs, if that many.
No worries Al. They are good thoughts and thanks to everyone here, the list has evolved quite nicely. In my mind, it's only because we have all these names, we can and should move to the next stage of describing the collections. Ideally, we could get to the point of tracking provenances better for individual pieces by going through old catalogs like for the Friedman and Gotham collections.
PCGS now recognizes Jeff Shevlin @SoCalledGuy:
Here's a HK-402 PPIE Alabama piece from Don Ensley, photo courtesy of Jeff @SoCalledGuy.
I'm glad he did all this slabbing. It's a great way to keep track of all these pieces and have high resolution photos now.
two new names I had never heard of, currently being offered by DLC Auctions:
--- the Broad Bay Collection.
--- the Salvatore Falcone Collection.
Good info @keets!
Thinking back to what you wrote on better and less well-known provenances, given that many So-Called collections are noted by how broad they are, perhaps a public registry where anyone can add a HK number for any collector is the way to go, like Ancestry.com. The collections could be known for and ranked by their breadth. Of course this could take into account quality and specialist collections of certain SCDs.
Salvatore Falcone is a dealer here in California... i've met him several times at the Long Beach Show as well as at one of the smaller Western States Numismatics Shows in Jackson, CA
Here's a new one .... JEM Collection... new to me....
A So-Called Dollar and Slug Collector... Previously "Pioneer" on this site...
Great info. Looks like Salvatore Falcone sold his collection via Fred Holabird back on March 7, 2019. Holabird doesn't have full slab photos so I can't tell is Falcone is on the slab inserts.
I added him to the list in the OP. Is he still collecting?
Here's the auction listing:
https://holabirdamericana.liveauctiongroup.com/Wigwam-Auction-March-2019_as57512_p5
1906 Harrisburg, PA - New State Capital Dedication - HK-Unlisted - NGC MS66BN - $450 - Ex. Salvatore Falcone
This looks like to be a highlight of the collection from a realized price perspective.
https://holabirdamericana.liveauctiongroup.com/New-State-Capitol-Medal-91150_i32591231
1907 Jamestown Tercentennial Exposition - HK-347 - NGC MS64 - $150 - Ex. Salvatore Falcone
This one looks nice:
https://holabirdamericana.liveauctiongroup.com/HK-347-89196_i32591235
1915 Panama Canal Completion Exposition - State Expo Dollar - HK-414 - NGC MS64DPL - Ex-EPN
I just ran across this and am impressed it sold for $1,410! Eric Newman had some nice So-Called Dollars!
1893 World's Columbian Expo - Official Medal - HK-154 - Unc Details Cleaned - Ex-EPN
My Newman SCD isn't nearly as impressive, but I got it to go with my MS67 pop 1/0 and 10% off center specimens.
Just ran across what seems to be a significant collection from Tim and Marlee Gabriele sold at various times on Stack's.
An interesting thing is that all the So-Called Dollar sales are attributed to Tim and Marlee while his Merchant Token collection sold this year was only attributed to Tim. Seems like his wife is an active So-Called Dollar collector!
1882 Pennsylvania Bicentennial Upland-Chester Dollar - Silver - HK-141b - NGC MS64 POP 0/1/0 - Ex-Tim and Marlee Gabriele
This silver piece sold for $9,200 in 2010!
1896 Tennessee Centennial Exposition, Andrew Jackson Dollar - Bronze - HK-275 - NGC MS67BN POP 5/1/0 - Ex-Tim and Marlee Gabriele
This sold for $1,410 in 2015 and is from The Tim and Marlee Gabriele Collection, Part 2.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/1-1BHUW/1896-tennessee-centennial-exposition-andrew-jackson-dollar-bronze-35-mm-hk-275-rarity-6-ms-67-bn-ngc
I was just going through Stack's and looking at some of the Tim and Marlee Gabriele pieces. They had quite a few top pops which is very impressive. Also interesting is that a number of them didn't meet the reserve.
Thanks for having the Ostheimer pedigree added. It's so important to track these!
I was just looking at HK-23 plate coin which has the Ostheimer pedigree on the holder but isn't mentioned by Stack's at all in the lot description. So a huge thanks for adding these and a reminder of how important the pedigree is on the holders!
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/1-1HMKK/1876-us-centennial-exposition-liberty-bell-independence-hall-dollar-silver-38-mm-hk-23-rarity-8-ms-63-ngc
There is a HUGE difference between someone who is a discerning "COLLECTOR" and someone who simply makes a market in them.
Just my 2¢
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
I agree there is a huge difference between the two, but what are your thoughts about tracking each?
The great coins are tracked by both collectors and dealers.
I personally hold little to no value in the pedigree. While some would argue that certain pedigrees carry weight because the collector was world famous for his/her quality collection, there are totally unknown collectors that have a great eye but not the budget.
Take Eliasberg, for example. How many rolls of V Nickels did PCGS slab from his hoard of rolls? Not many were terribly noteworthy, but they trade high because his name is on the label.
Coins, medals, etc. should stand on their own merits.
Does that make this 4¢?
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
It makes sense that you, and others, would feel that way, so thank you for your thoughts. At the same time, it also makes sense that others would feel differently. A great thing about this hobby is that people can enjoy the hobby in different ways.
I will say that a great thing about the provenances on this list is that many otherwise unknown collectors can be recognized for their names on the inserts, so I think ATS is doing the hobby a huge service here. A great thing here is that otherwise unknown collectors can be recognized for their great eye, even for low budget items, since some So-Called Dollars are very rare and were very inexpensive for many decades.
Check out this list for the 1913 Liberty Head Nickels:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1040148/1913-liberty-nickel-pedigrees
Here's another one from D.C. Daniels.
Here's an HK-430 and HK-431 Panama-California / San Diego Expo So-Called Dollar from Richard Stuart. Anyone know him? He has a nice insert!
The HK-430 was offered in the Richard Stuart Collection in 2017 and subsequently from the Tim Gabriele Collection in 2021.
I just ran across the Broad Bay Collection again while searching for Leshers.
It would be great to know more about these collections. It seems to be mentioned on just 2 pages with references to just 2 pieces of the over 100 sold. The pedigree isn't listed in the lot descriptions so it may be difficult to connect them.
Ref: https://blog.davidlawrence.com/leshers-so-called-dollars/
And a reference from DLRC in CoinWeek:
Ref: https://coinweek.com/auction-news/david-lawrence-offers-more-than-100-so-called-dollars-1909-s-vdb/
Here are the two Lesher Dollars with linked lot pages from the article.
Here's another one from Salvatore Falcone. It's really nice to have the pedigree on the slabs for tracing purposes.
Always great to add another noted collector to the So-Called Dollar club!
Here's the HK-134 Newburgh Dollar from John Doyle DeWitt's collection!
More on DeWitt is available on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Doyle_DeWitt