do you think this 1794 $1 is upgrade candidate?

LanceNewmanOCC · March 18, 2022 12:10PM

.
.
not sure where the reverse image ran off to.

braddick · March 18, 2022 12:12PM

I am pretty confident that is a counterfeit/fake PCGS slab. Thus, NO. I don't think it'll upgrade.

braddick · March 18, 2022 12:13PM

(((Fake coin too.)))
::Check the spacing of the date among other tells::

MFeld · March 18, 2022 12:16PM

@braddick said:
I am pretty confident that is a counterfeit/fake PCGS slab. Thus, NO. I don't think it'll upgrade.

@braddick said:
I am pretty confident that is a counterfeit/fake PCGS slab. Thus, NO. I don't think it'll upgrade.

I was saying “counterfeit” to myself before I got to your post. The strength of the date and/or the stars (to its left, in particular) were all I needed to see.

Floridafacelifter · March 18, 2022 12:32PM

And the nose is awful

Genuine XF 40

amwldcoin · March 18, 2022 1:31PM

The whole dang thing is too strong to be real! Is there any example with the stars and hair details that strong? Maybe if you combine several examples you could couple and obv. with all the stars that strong.

FlyingAl · March 18, 2022 2:22PM

Is that a plug in the center of the neck? I'm thinking just toning, but it'd be very interesting if the counterfeiters tried to add that.

LJenkins11 · March 18, 2022 2:27PM

The cert checks out... but the Trueview just doesn't look the same, strange. If PCGS opens a counterfeits grading department I think its a candidate for an upgrade.

https://www.pcgs.com/cert/04154731

cardinal · March 18, 2022 3:46PM

Totally a fake, a billion times only!!

Victa · March 18, 2022 3:58PM

The nose job is just totally wrong.

MFeld · March 18, 2022 3:59PM

@amwldcoin said:
The whole dang thing is too strong to be real! Is there any example with the stars and hair details that strong? Maybe if you combine several examples you could couple and obv. with all the stars that strong.

Hair, yes, but stars, no, not even if you combined the sharpest from all known examples. See exhibit one and only:

There’s a poster to this thread, who happens to be fairly well versed in 1794 dollars, including the one above.😉

alaura22 · March 18, 2022 4:47PM

@braddick said:
I am pretty confident that is a counterfeit/fake PCGS slab. Thus, NO. I don't think it'll upgrade.

Braddick
What gives it away on the holder?

MsMorrisine · March 18, 2022 5:14PM

@alaura22 said:

Braddick
What gives it away on the holder?

There are a number of different styles for the holders and label, and even the hologram.

Instead of simply pointing out details, I figure better to have you on a voyage of discovery.

This label and holder is quite common.
1. Finding the same holder on eBay will be easy
2. Check every detail of the holder
3. Are the stackable corners shaped right
4. Is the hologram right (virtually always ok)
5. Is the font right
6. Is the font weight right
7. Is the kerning (space between letters) right
8. Is the space between “words” right
9. Is the vertical line spacing right
10. Is the printing on the label crooked?
11. Is the barcode right (there are 2 generations of barcodes)
12. Is the gasket right (gaskets can warp &/or discolor from intense heat. learn what this looks like)
13. Does the grade on the label match the grade of the coin
14. Do a cert check to see if things match
15. Finally, on a six figure coin that probably just got reholdered, check auction houses to see if they have previously sold the coin. (It is possible an online dealer has the real one on sale, too) Is it the same coin (even if toning or conservation has changed the surfaces.)

Here, I’ll just point out #5 and leave the rest to you. This one has another easy to spot flaw.

cardinal · March 18, 2022 5:36PM

Truly, the one in the first photo is an early fake out of China.

I remember that a south California dealer bought one like this, thinking it was a new discovery coin. (He figured that since it wasn't listed in my book, it HAD to be a new one.) I debunked it immediatly, and the dealer didn't even get the name of the "good old guy" who sold it to him.

MsMorrisine · March 18, 2022 7:57PM

@FlyingAl said:
Is that a plug in the center of the neck? I'm thinking just toning, but it'd be very interesting if the counterfeiters tried to add that.

Yes that is a solid silver plug
And those scrape looking things on the periphery are adjustment marks. All to get it just right.

FlyingAl · March 18, 2022 9:04PM

@MsMorrisine said:

@FlyingAl said:
Is that a plug in the center of the neck? I'm thinking just toning, but it'd be very interesting if the counterfeiters tried to add that.

Yes that is a solid silver plug
And those scrape looking things on the periphery are adjustment marks. All to get it just right.

Are you mentioning the counterfeit or the genuine example? I think we may be mentioning different coins.

oreville · March 18, 2022 9:09PM

Bad hair styling ….bad nose job…..even if it were somehow authentic it would not be an upgrade candidate at all.

MasonG · March 18, 2022 9:14PM

@oreville said:
Bad hair styling ….

200 years too early for spaghetti hair...

MsMorrisine · March 18, 2022 9:42PM

@FlyingAl said:

@MsMorrisine said:

@FlyingAl said:
Is that a plug in the center of the neck? I'm thinking just toning, but it'd be very interesting if the counterfeiters tried to add that.

Yes that is a solid silver plug
And those scrape looking things on the periphery are adjustment marks. All to get it just right.

Are you mentioning the counterfeit or the genuine example? I think we may be mentioning different coins.

MFeld · March 19, 2022 4:15AM

@MsMorrisine said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MsMorrisine said:

@FlyingAl said:
Is that a plug in the center of the neck? I'm thinking just toning, but it'd be very interesting if the counterfeiters tried to add that.

Yes that is a solid silver plug
And those scrape looking things on the periphery are adjustment marks. All to get it just right.

Are you mentioning the counterfeit or the genuine example? I think we may be mentioning different coins.

He was asking about the counterfeit, as I hadn’t even posted the picture of the genuine example at the time he asked about a plug.😉

DoubleEagle59 · March 19, 2022 4:39AM

Fake......date numbers are always 'off'.

amwldcoin · March 19, 2022 5:54AM

@MFeld said:

@amwldcoin said:
The whole dang thing is too strong to be real! Is there any example with the stars and hair details that strong? Maybe if you combine several examples you could couple and obv. with all the stars that strong.

Hair, yes, but stars, no, not even if you combined the sharpest from all known examples. See exhibit one and only:

There’s a poster to this thread, who happens to be fairly well versed in 1794 dollars, including the one above.😉

That's not fair throwing the specimen strike up there! Here is the 66+

MFeld · March 19, 2022 7:11AM

@amwldcoin said:

@MFeld said:

@amwldcoin said:
The whole dang thing is too strong to be real! Is there any example with the stars and hair details that strong? Maybe if you combine several examples you could couple and obv. with all the stars that strong.

Hair, yes, but stars, no, not even if you combined the sharpest from all known examples. See exhibit one and only:

There’s a poster to this thread, who happens to be fairly well versed in 1794 dollars, including the one above.😉

That's not fair throwing the specimen strike up there! Here is the 66+

Why was it unfair to post the picture of the “Specimen” coin?
I was addressing the part of your post that said: “Maybe if you combine several examples you could couple and obv. with all the stars that strong.”
My point was that if even the stars on the “Specimen” aren’t as sharp as the ones on the counterfeit, combining several examples still wouldn’t produce stars as sharp as seen on the latter.

MFeld · March 19, 2022 7:50AM

@oreville said:
Bad hair styling ….bad nose job…..even if it were somehow authentic it would not be an upgrade candidate at all.

Sure it would - at a minimum, it’s an easy AU.

fathom · March 19, 2022 8:08AM

This thread has run its course IMO.

But its always nice to see the SP66. Can't get enough of that icon.

amwldcoin · March 19, 2022 8:47AM

That's a one off!

@MFeld said:

@amwldcoin said:

@MFeld said:

@amwldcoin said:
The whole dang thing is too strong to be real! Is there any example with the stars and hair details that strong? Maybe if you combine several examples you could couple and obv. with all the stars that strong.

Hair, yes, but stars, no, not even if you combined the sharpest from all known examples. See exhibit one and only:

There’s a poster to this thread, who happens to be fairly well versed in 1794 dollars, including the one above.😉

That's not fair throwing the specimen strike up there! Here is the 66+

Why was it unfair to post the picture of the “Specimen” coin?
I was addressing the part of your post that said: “Maybe if you combine several examples you could couple and obv. with all the stars that strong.”
My point was that if even the stars on the “Specimen” aren’t as sharp as the ones on the counterfeit, combining several examples still wouldn’t produce stars as sharp as seen on the latter.

logger7 · March 19, 2022 8:52AM

A fake, phony two-bit fraud of a coin.

MFeld · March 19, 2022 9:15AM

@amwldcoin said:
That's a one off!

@MFeld said:

@amwldcoin said:

@MFeld said:

@amwldcoin said:
The whole dang thing is too strong to be real! Is there any example with the stars and hair details that strong? Maybe if you combine several examples you could couple and obv. with all the stars that strong.

Hair, yes, but stars, no, not even if you combined the sharpest from all known examples. See exhibit one and only:

There’s a poster to this thread, who happens to be fairly well versed in 1794 dollars, including the one above.😉

That's not fair throwing the specimen strike up there! Here is the 66+

Why was it unfair to post the picture of the “Specimen” coin?
I was addressing the part of your post that said: “Maybe if you combine several examples you could couple and obv. with all the stars that strong.”
My point was that if even the stars on the “Specimen” aren’t as sharp as the ones on the counterfeit, combining several examples still wouldn’t produce stars as sharp as seen on the latter.

I know that. And again, if even it’s stars aren’t as sharp as those on the counterfeit, then obviously, no theoretical combining of stars from other examples would match those seen on the counterfeit. I’be been addressing YOUR post on that issue and now officially give up trying.

LanceNewmanOCC · March 19, 2022 9:35AM

so really what you guys and gals are saying is that a gold sticker is not in the future for me or my little 1794? i mean, c'mon just be honest now.

MFeld · March 19, 2022 9:37AM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
so really what you guys and gals are saying is that a gold sticker is not in the future for me or my little 1794? i mean, c'mon just be honest now.

A sticker would be apropos, providing that it had “Counterfeit,” marked on it.

LanceNewmanOCC · March 19, 2022 9:58AM

@MFeld said:
A sticker would be apropos, providing that it had “Counterfeit,” marked on it.

.
i have self-awarded this coin of the highest quality, not only signifying its grandeur far and beyond the quality of its counterparts, the elusive and esteemed "Fake" gold sticker. i deny any bias on my part being the sticker recipient and issuer and let the item stand upon its own merit.

@Floridafacelifter

she vehemently denies having ANY work done on that fantastic sniffer of hers!

jesbroken · March 19, 2022 10:05AM

Besides all the fun, that is a dangerous coin to have. Looks more than real enough to fool a lot of people that could be duped into purchasing. Be nice to know the provenance, especially the person who created it.
Jim

shorecoll · March 19, 2022 10:18AM

About 15 years ago, ANA was warning about high grade counterfeits that were going for $3-400 from China. Is this one of those, or another $20 "hey, look what I found"? If it's just a cheapo, whatever happended to those high grade examples? Are they still floating around.

numisma · March 19, 2022 10:25AM

@braddick said:
I am pretty confident that is a counterfeit/fake PCGS slab. Thus, NO. I don't think it'll upgrade.

It is a genuine PCGS slab, but not from our host. This one belongs to Professional Counterfeit Grading Scam (PCGS)

numisma · March 19, 2022 10:28AM

@FlyingAl said:
Is that a plug in the center of the neck? I'm thinking just toning, but it'd be very interesting if the counterfeiters tried to add that.

Good catch, but they could have made a better effort to put the plug in the center of the planchet!

alefzero · March 19, 2022 12:14PM

Someone took this guy's bait. He had it in auction with an opening bid of $250 OBO. I sent him an offer of $20 for the novelty of a counterfeit 1794.

https://ebay.com/itm/304401876035

amwldcoin · March 19, 2022 2:48PM

Here are my parting thoughts. I gave my 1st impression of the coin and it was absolutely correct....even to the hair details! You are just picking nits!

@MFeld said:

@amwldcoin said:
That's a one off!

@MFeld said:

@amwldcoin said:

@MFeld said:

@amwldcoin said:
The whole dang thing is too strong to be real! Is there any example with the stars and hair details that strong? Maybe if you combine several examples you could couple and obv. with all the stars that strong.

Hair, yes, but stars, no, not even if you combined the sharpest from all known examples. See exhibit one and only:

There’s a poster to this thread, who happens to be fairly well versed in 1794 dollars, including the one above.😉

That's not fair throwing the specimen strike up there! Here is the 66+

Why was it unfair to post the picture of the “Specimen” coin?
I was addressing the part of your post that said: “Maybe if you combine several examples you could couple and obv. with all the stars that strong.”
My point was that if even the stars on the “Specimen” aren’t as sharp as the ones on the counterfeit, combining several examples still wouldn’t produce stars as sharp as seen on the latter.

I know that. And again, if even it’s stars aren’t as sharp as those on the counterfeit, then obviously, no theoretical combining of stars from other examples would match those seen on the counterfeit. I’be been addressing YOUR post on that issue and now officially give up trying.

MsMorrisine · March 19, 2022 4:35PM

@numisma said:

@braddick said:
I am pretty confident that is a counterfeit/fake PCGS slab. Thus, NO. I don't think it'll upgrade.

It is a genuine PCGS slab, but not from our host. This one belongs to Professional Counterfeit Grading Scam (PCGS)

You can find the real one on heritage

It is no doubt a counterfeit slab

greatcollection · March 20, 2022 2:54AM

I'd buy that as a fake. What a coin!

ricko · March 20, 2022 3:36AM

Well, I have learned a bit from this thread....stars, hair - and especially nose features... Not to mention fake slab features. Very informative. Cheers, RickO

cameonut2011 · March 20, 2022 7:48AM

That’s one botched rhinoplasty… that’s for sure.

cardinal · March 20, 2022 8:33AM

Here's the reverse of the "coin."

DoubleEagle59 · March 20, 2022 4:56PM

do you think this 1794 $1 is upgrade candidate?

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