Adjustment Marks ?

Johnscott6443 · February 1, 2022 7:46AM

I’d like everyone’s opinion as to whether or not these are adjustment marks made on my 1834 Half Eagle ?
I believe they are !
I think that after 1840 the practice of adjusting in the fields was virtually stopped because adjustments could be made on the rims easier and without affecting the queens look.
Thoughts ?
Thanks

Johnscott6443 · February 1, 2022 7:49AM

Terribly sorry I guess I should’ve figured out how to upload a picture before I sent the discussion

Johnscott6443 · February 1, 2022 8:28AM

Hope you can see this

Johnscott6443 · February 1, 2022 8:35AM

Darn

Johnscott6443 · February 1, 2022 8:35AM

I give up 😞

MsMorrisine · February 1, 2022 8:50AM

You are not a full member yet

Give it a couple of days and see if you are given it

asheland · February 1, 2022 12:43PM

Welcome to the forums Just try again with the picture in a few days...

ricko · February 2, 2022 7:25AM

@Johnscott6443.... Welcome aboard... Do not give up.... You will be able to post shortly... Forum protocol prevents new members from posting pictures right away. Cheers, RickO

Johnscott6443 · February 3, 2022 12:47PM

I am a full-fledged member as of today yippee 👌

I would appreciate members thoughts on my posting of the picture of my half eagle with what I believe are adjustment Marks

Nysoto · February 3, 2022 1:16PM

Sorry, they appear to be pin scratches, because they begin and end abruptly, and are fairly uniform in depth. Adjustment marks generally taper in severity where they end, and often climb devices. They also vary in depth, and are not curved at all. I have a couple of coins imaged that explain:

jmlanzaf · February 3, 2022 1:24PM

@Johnscott6443 said:

I am a full-fledged member as of today yippee 👌

I would appreciate members thoughts on my posting of the picture of my half eagle with what I believe are adjustment Marks

Scratches. Not adjustment marks

Johnscott6443 · February 3, 2022 1:27PM

Thank you for your input, it appears to me that all the lines are perfectly straight some have a little diagonal angle. The two coins you provided pictures of are significantly earlier than this 1834 is it possible the method changed over the years or between mints ?
The marks seem so straight and calculated I can’t imagine who would want to scratch a coin like that for no apparent reason. I appreciate your obvious expertise and thank you for your time.
Scott

MFeld · February 3, 2022 1:32PM

@Johnscott6443 said:
Thank you for your input, it appears to me that all the lines are perfectly straight some have a little diagonal angle. The two coins you provided pictures of are significantly earlier than this 1834 is it possible the method changed over the years or between mints ?
The marks seem so straight and calculated I can’t imagine who would want to scratch a coin like that for no apparent reason. I appreciate your obvious expertise and thank you for your time.
Scott

Unfortunately, the marks on your coin are scratches, not adjustment marks.

Johnscott6443 · February 3, 2022 1:42PM

I guess I can look on the Bright side of things and figure it’s still worth over $400 lol

golden · February 3, 2022 1:46PM

PMD.

AMRC · February 3, 2022 1:53PM

The only thing those lines are adjusting is the coin's desirability.

Nysoto · February 3, 2022 2:02PM

I used to collect the classic head gold series, quarters and $5 by die variety, and I don't recall any adjustment marks, and a quick search of the Heritage archives don't show any. There are adjustment marks on capped bust and capped head $5's, at least through the 1820's. The adjustment marks are finer and generally found on the rim and dentils. The Mint apparently changed from rasp cut or cross cut files to finer b(a)stard cut files around 1807, which leave finer adjustment marks. The Mint employed adjusters until the late 1800's and it appears all of the adjusting was done on the edge after about 1830. There could be a few exceptions.

The TPG's generally don't lower grades for adjustment marks (check out current Heritage 1795 half dollar PCGS 40) but on MS coins they might drop a point or two.

ThreeCentSilverFL · February 3, 2022 4:18PM

When do scratches become graffiti? Honest question folks, relates to the OP coin. Thanks…

MasonG · February 3, 2022 4:24PM

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:
When do scratches become graffiti?

My personal opinion- when the scratches create an intentional design.

MFeld · February 3, 2022 4:33PM

@MasonG said:

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:
When do scratches become graffiti?

My personal opinion- when the scratches create an intentional design.

I don’t necessarily agree that intent should matter, but I agree that the above stated distinction seems to be the case.

kaz · February 3, 2022 5:09PM

I'll just add that adjustment marks will generally "tone in" and collect dirt like the rest of the surface; scratches are mostly brighter since they cut through the coin's surface patina.

ThreeCentSilverFL · February 3, 2022 5:29PM

@MasonG said:

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:
When do scratches become graffiti?

My personal opinion- when the scratches create an intentional design.

Or maybe an intentional defacement of the coin? Some designs are to be questioned.

MFeld · February 3, 2022 5:37PM

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:

@MasonG said:

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:
When do scratches become graffiti?

My personal opinion- when the scratches create an intentional design.

Or maybe an intentional defacement of the coin? Some designs are to be questioned.

If it’s not some type of design, how do you know if it’s intentional?

moursund · February 3, 2022 5:40PM

@MFeld said:

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:

@MasonG said:

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:
When do scratches become graffiti?

My personal opinion- when the scratches create an intentional design.

Or maybe an intentional defacement of the coin? Some designs are to be questioned.

If it’s not some type of design, how do you know if it’s intentional?

And if it is some type of design, how do you know if it's just pareidolia?

ThreeCentSilverFL · February 3, 2022 5:44PM

@MFeld said:

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:

@MasonG said:

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:
When do scratches become graffiti?

My personal opinion- when the scratches create an intentional design.

Or maybe an intentional defacement of the coin? Some designs are to be questioned.

If it’s not some type of design, how do you know if it’s intentional?

Of course I don’t know it’s intentional. Sure looks like it to me though.

moursund · February 3, 2022 5:50PM

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:

@MFeld said:

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:

@MasonG said:

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:
When do scratches become graffiti?

My personal opinion- when the scratches create an intentional design.

Or maybe an intentional defacement of the coin? Some designs are to be questioned.

If it’s not some type of design, how do you know if it’s intentional?

Of course I don’t know it’s intentional. Sure looks like it to me though.

What if the scratches spell out the words "these scratches are not intentional"?

MFeld · February 3, 2022 5:51PM

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:

@MFeld said:

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:

@MasonG said:

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:
When do scratches become graffiti?

My personal opinion- when the scratches create an intentional design.

Or maybe an intentional defacement of the coin? Some designs are to be questioned.

If it’s not some type of design, how do you know if it’s intentional?

Of course I don’t know it’s intentional. Sure looks like it to me though.

If you’re talking about the coin in the first post, regardless of whether it would be considered “scratches” or “graffiti”, I doubt it would straight grade. But to your point about “intentional” - the reason I’d prefer that intent not be taken into consideration, is because many times, we can’t determine intent.

MasonG · February 3, 2022 5:52PM

@MFeld said:

@MasonG said:

@ThreeCentSilverFL said:
When do scratches become graffiti?

My personal opinion- when the scratches create an intentional design.

I don’t necessarily agree that intent should matter, but I agree that the above stated distinction seems to be the case.

I see it as more of a guideline than a hard-and-fast rule. Kind of like the difference between natural and artificial toning.

Johnscott6443 · February 3, 2022 5:53PM

After seeing all the comments my feelings are this. What a shame it’s been defaced and for what reason who will ever know.
It’s too uniform and intentional to be graffiti or to be conveying any type of message or meaning.
Aside from that it’s a really pretty Coin.

ThreeCentSilverFL · February 3, 2022 6:10PM

@MFeld said:

If you’re talking about the coin in the first post, regardless of whether it would be considered “scratches” or “graffiti”, I doubt it would straight grade. But to your point about “intentional” - the reason I’d prefer that intent not be taken into consideration, is because many times, we can’t determine intent.

Agree. Intent would have to be Standardized. I sit on 2 ASTM committees and it’s hard enough to agree on anything close to something like that…

Adjustment Marks ?

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