1920 Pilgrim Half MS65
Came across this yesterday - any premium? Or maybe a discount because it's not in PCGS plastic?
What time period did they grade coins? Thank you for any help
Comments
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I have not seen that one. Very cool. They didn't skimp on the staples, that's for sure.
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Definitely needs more staples.
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Looks mid-1980s. Don't think they graded coins as a TPG just in house for their auctions I believe. I have a (1959) Washington born medal restrike in one of these graded flips.
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To me, until it is in a real top TPG slab it is just another Unc. Commemorative half.
All glory is fleeting.0 -
This thread has some info:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1052329/someone-who-posted-some-amazing-bowers-and-ruddy-gallery-coins-he-inheritedThe estimated time period is 1980-1983 (could be even a bit earlier). You would likely get at least a small premium from those that like to collect old flips/slabs.
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Did they put the staples there? I don't recall seeing them use cardboard 2x2s. The owner must have done that. No?
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I love the patina on the staples
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@jmlanzaf said:
Did they put the staples there? I don't recall seeing them use cardboard 2x2s. The owner must have done that. No?I was a Bowers and Ruddy retail customer beginning in 1973, and bought also from their auctions. I started wholesaling with them in 1976 shuffling coins between them, Jimmy Halperin, Bob Rose and Kevin Lipton.
No, Bowers and Merena did not EVER use two-by-two's with staples. They were NOT nitwit brick and mortar dealers and didn't set up at the Amer4ican Legion Hall very third Saturday. They were selling coins in PVC-rich mylar flips long before any of us saw the coins and flips start to turn green.
That's right! Flips!!!!!! That's what the old farts used to call them.... Groundbreaking technological breakthrough that made 2x2 manila envelopes as obsolete as buggy-whips a decade after Farouk
The coin will likely 66 but needs some PVC removed first.
If the OP would like to contact me, I'll be happy to coach him through it. It's easy.
Note: none of the holders in the linkified thread didn't need no steenkin' staples
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell3 -
Cool and collectible holder
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
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@ColonelJessup said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Did they put the staples there? I don't recall seeing them use cardboard 2x2s. The owner must have done that. No?I was a Bowers and Ruddy retail customer beginning in 1973, and bought also from their auctions. I started wholesaling with them in 1976 shuffling coins between them, Jimmy Halperin, Bob Rose and Kevin Lipton.
No, Bowers and Merena did not EVER use two-by-two's with staples. They were NOT nitwit brick and mortar dealers and didn't set up at the Amer4ican Legion Hall very third Saturday. They were selling coins in PVC-rich mylar flips long before any of us saw the coins and flips start to turn green.
That's right! Flips!!!!!! That's what the old farts used to call them.... Groundbreaking technological breakthrough that made 2x2 manila envelopes as obsolete as buggy-whips a decade after Farouk
The coin will likely 66 but needs some PVC removed first.
If the OP would like to contact me, I'll be happy to coach him through it. It's easy.
Note: none of the holders in the linkified thread didn't need no steenkin' staples
Merry Christmas.
Our 1st agreement of the year... just in time for New Year!
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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If triple-banned Alan and triple-banned Laurie could see us now, they'd probably believe there'll be peace on Earth on Sunday morning.
FWIW, Ms. Sperber is enduring a long thrice-weekly dialysis and holding a good thought for her over the Christian holiday is a karmic gift that we Jews easily practice along with the Buddhists.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell1 -
maybe you can get it slabbed by our Host and have them insert the label into the slab, I know some were made for both the Boy Scouts and Girl scouts that had a Stamp placed in the back of the slab, The Girl scout slab was given out only one time and is very scarce.
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@ColonelJessup said:
They were selling coins in PVC-rich mylar flips long before any of us saw the coins and flips start to turn green.
There were never "PVC rich mylar flips". PVC and Mylar are two different materials. The early flips were PVC and proved to be unsafe for long term coin storage. Saflips came later and were made with Mylar which were safe for long term coin storage.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire0 -
@PerryHall said:
@ColonelJessup said:
They were selling coins in PVC-rich mylar flips long before any of us saw the coins and flips start to turn green.
There were never "PVC rich mylar flips". PVC and Mylar are two different materials. The early flips were PVC and proved to be unsafe for long term coin storage. Saflips came later and were made with Mylar which were safe for long term coin storage.
The early flips may or may not have had mylar in some proportion. They were not made from PVC exclusively, but PVC- bearing plastic.. And now that we have mutually assured the further degeneration of the other's street cred, do you have any more trival and perversely picayune "corrections" that will further my barfing despair?>
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell2 -
New England Rare Coin Galleries also had flips like these, with the coin side sealed. I think I still have one somewhere for an 1883 NC nickel in MS60. Paid $20 for it.
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The staples are rusting, but the coin itself looks free of tarnish. I could not see any PVC that the good Colonel referred to.... may be my computer.... but if it were my coin, I would definitely take him up on his offer of guidance. Cheers, RickO
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@ricko said:
The staples are rusting, but the coin itself looks free of tarnish. I could not see any PVC that the good Colonel referred to.... may be my computer.... but if it were my coin, I would definitely take him up on his offer of guidance. Cheers, RickOI'm making an assumption about there being PVC on the coin.
I do not see any hint of a greenish tinge that would indicate thick layers of it, but it's dingy off-white, while this issue comes blazing white if "optimally" stored.I'm also basing this on rarely if ever seeing Bowers selling dipped commems (or much else)
How many layers of plastic am I looking through? I see a yellowish suggestion of tone that could be refraction.
Despite those caveats, there are a few minor ticks on the reverse that don't have shiny bottoms.
But it was in one of those flips for years or decades. I'd say more likely than not there's PVC there.
How much?
Should it be taken off?DO NOT TOUCH THOSE STAPLES - Puncture the outer rim of the cellophane and the coin will slide right out.
Much easier to diagnose raw using the John Albanese Water Trick, a conservation tool he taught me in about 1985.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell1 -
Mylar flips were indeed used, without staples. Here’s mine. Certainly not a slab, just an interesting memento from some great numismatic icons.
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To add, B&R became B&M Galleries in 1982, so these are likely circa late ‘70s very early ‘80’s.
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@ColonelJessup said:
@ricko said:
The staples are rusting, but the coin itself looks free of tarnish. I could not see any PVC that the good Colonel referred to.... may be my computer.... but if it were my coin, I would definitely take him up on his offer of guidance. Cheers, RickOI'm making an assumption about there being PVC on the coin.
I do not see any hint of a greenish tinge that would indicate thick layers of it, but it's dingy off-white, while this issue comes blazing white if "optimally" stored.I'm also basing this on rarely if ever seeing Bowers selling dipped commems (or much else)
How many layers of plastic am I looking through? I see a yellowish suggestion of tone that could be refraction.
Despite those caveats, there are a few minor ticks on the reverse that don't have shiny bottoms.
But it was in one of those flips for years or decades. I'd say more likely than not there's PVC there.
How much?
Should it be taken off?DO NOT TOUCH THOSE STAPLES - Puncture the outer rim of the cellophane and the coin will slide right out.
Much easier to diagnose raw using the John Albanese Water Trick, a conservation tool he taught me in about 1985.
Two layers of plastic in pic... the flip and then the plastic of the cardboard holder. I can take it out of the flip, and maybe even the cardboard holder for a clear pic on Monday.
2
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