Why did this trade $ get an ms60 grade?

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goldrealmoney79
goldrealmoney79 Posts: 417 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I know grading standards have changed over the years but even an older ms60, wonders what the problem is on the coin, I cant see it and was wondering if anyone can tell me why it got an ms60? And what do you think it would grade today?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275053495099?hash=item400a77433b:g:tP4AAOSwHhhhrQhk

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  • 291fifth
    291fifth Posts: 25,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Who knows? The photos are useless.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks like a counterfeit in a non-recognized flip

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,133 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Because that was the grade assigned by the original seller. How would you expect a meaningful assessment of the coin from those pictures?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • logger7
    logger7 Posts: 9,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Hard to tell from the images; uncertified, someone may have called it that but since no active certification exists for it the seller should not be listing it as such. An MS60 coin can have a lot of problems.

  • pmh1nic
    pmh1nic Posts: 3,503 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    My assessment from the pictures is the seller hasn't got a clue about selling coins or anything else on Ebay.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • VanHalen
    VanHalen Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Clear listing violation if nothing else. MS60 in the auction heading with no approved grading company in sight.

  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Who was “its/cts” ?

    Could not find anything at all on them

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • moursund
    moursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @VanHalen said:
    Clear listing violation if nothing else. MS60 in the auction heading with no approved grading company in sight.

    Really? You can't put a grade in the listing without TPG?!? I cannot believe that...

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    You can’t put a numerical grade in a listing that is not from an eBay approved TPG

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • Fishpro
    Fishpro Posts: 389 ✭✭✭
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    Is it real? the C -C ‘s don’t line up, might be cleaned too.

  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Color looks like pot metal. Maybe it has been worked over instead.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • moursund
    moursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MsMorrisine said:
    You can’t put a numerical grade in a listing that is not from an eBay approved TPG

    Interesting... Learn something every day... 👍

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • DoubleEagle59
    DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Could be a copy and paste.

    His other listing, a gold Dutch coin looks fake to me.

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • gumby1234
    gumby1234 Posts: 5,901 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    In the item description it says PR60 and certified by NGC. Its definitely not proof and doesn't appear to be certified either.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • kaz
    kaz Posts: 9,378 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    1 bidder "won" at 2400$. Can't tell diddly squat from those photos.

  • DDR
    DDR Posts: 1,686 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Can't tell the grade, or even if it is genuine, from the sellers pics.

    However, Crypto is right, way back when, MS-60 just kind of meant that the coin was a baseline, unattractive UNC, not choice or gem. That could very well have been the case with this coin.

    David
    Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
    Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
  • 1madman
    1madman Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Net graded 60 because of the scratch extending from Liberty’s knee cap up to the branch in her hand?

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Scratch, rim damage, poor pictures... No way I would bid on that...and $2400???? Wow.... Should have had services before the burial.... Cheers, RickO

  • Che_Grapes
    Che_Grapes Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I agree, 2400 is crazy for that coin ... wow
    Recently a common date GSA (ungraded even!) cc Morgan went for over 3k ... what is going on these days?? That’s a 350 dollar coin that sold for 10X value on eBay..!! I think this will all end badly and the reason I am not buying coins right now - sellers market!!

  • alefzero
    alefzero Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Fishpro said:
    Is it real? the C -C ‘s don’t line up, might be cleaned too.

    I think it is real. Don't have time to compare but it is close to a die pair I have seen with pretty low frequency. They were struck with a 14° relative die rotation. If it was holdered, that could be discriminated. Last one I saw in auction was a few years ago.

    https://greatcollections.com/Coin/487879

    Just not sure that the date is in the right position. But the mintage was high enough to not have seen all of the re-pairing of dies that was done.

  • Crypto
    Crypto Posts: 4,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Che_Grapes said:
    I agree, 2400 is crazy for that coin ... wow
    Recently a common date GSA (ungraded even!) cc Morgan went for over 3k ... what is going on these days?? That’s a 350 dollar coin that sold for 10X value on eBay..!! I think this will all end badly and the reason I am not buying coins right now - sellers market!!

    2400 isn't crazy at all for an UNC 74cc. Not saying that will UNC but I don't think anyone could say it wont. It is real and with EBAY protection I could see a dealer taking a flyer to get it in hand to judge for themselves.

    11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set

  • YoloBagels
    YoloBagels Posts: 169 ✭✭✭
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    Fraudulent listing, seller listed the coin as NGC graded when it is actually raw.

    Very common with sellers of raw coins to overgrade cleaned junk as "Choice AU/ Choice BU." They know what they are doing and I have absolutely no sympathy for them.

    My eBay page: https://www.ebay.com/usr/alvareznumismatics

  • mannie gray
    mannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @moursund said:

    @VanHalen said:
    Clear listing violation if nothing else. MS60 in the auction heading with no approved grading company in sight.

    Really? You can't put a grade in the listing without TPG?!? I cannot believe that...

    Well, believe it.
    You can say "Very Fine, very good, Uncirculated, etc. But when you assign a numerical grade to a raw coin or list a coin in a non-recognized holder...... that's a no-no.

  • alefzero
    alefzero Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    They really push the envelope in sneaking grades and even TPGs into lot titles and descriptions for raw and unapproved holders. But this is bolder than most these days. And you just know the buyer us going to end up in a shop or on a show bourse calling a real dealer a goniff because he will not offer more than a couple hundred bucks for it.

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