Im sure there is a reason, but explain how there could be such a wide either/or.
Here's the reason that I sometimes consider two such different grade guesses... Often, it's difficult to tell from pictures (and sometimes in-person, as well), whether a coin has rub/very slight wear. If the coin in this thread does, than it looks to be AU58. On the other hand, if what we're seeing is slight weakness in strike, rather than rub/very slight wear, based on the coin's flaws, it looks approximately 63 to me, with a shot at Ms64.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Im sure there is a reason, but explain how there could be such a wide either/or.
Here's the reason that I sometimes consider two such different grade guesses... Often, it's difficult to tell from pictures (and sometimes in-person, as well), whether a coin has rub/very slight wear. If the coin in this thread does, than it looks to be AU58. On the other hand, if what we're seeing is slight weakness in strike, rather than rub/very slight wear, based on the coin's flaws, it looks approximately 63 to me, with a shot at Ms64.
Below is a photo of the slab. Here are some comments on why I bought this coin:
1. I'm putting together the four coin Twenty Cent Business Strike set (virtually all of the Carson City mintage of 1876 was melted at the mint, so it's "accepted" to omit that issue).
2. I WILL be upgrading this coin to MS63 - MS65 once I see a coin in one of those grades that I like. Hasn't happened so far! 1-1/2 weeks ago there was an MS64 on auction, graded by PCGS with a CAC, but I didn't like it! It went for "cheap" money, but a cheap price doesn't make me like a coin any better if it doesn't appeal to me.
3. I acknowledge that it's not smart to buy a coin just to plug a hole if one knows it will be upgraded. However, for the grade, I LIKE this coin, even though most others in our hobby prefer more toning. Yes, the scratches in the field is what causes the grade to be as it is.
4. I recognize this coin HAS been dipped at some point in time, but apparently gently and quickly enough that CAC deemed it still merited their sticker, due to the high luster.
5. Since it's in an OGH, and with a CAC, bidding in the auction was active, and I had to pay 62 money for it (a few hundred dollars more than 61 money).
6. By the way, this is the ONLY 1876 graded by PCGS or NGC as MS61 with a CAC! Only one MS61 has a CAC, and this one is it!
7. When the time comes that I get the upgrade I'm looking for, I'll sell this coin. I believe that one of the collectors like me that prefers coins not too heavily toned, graded by PCGS, in an OGH, and one of the few in that grade with a CAC (over time others in this grade MIGHT get a CAC), I should have no trouble finding someone to pay somewhat close to what I paid for it. Obviously, those that "guessed" lower than MS will have no interest, and that's OK. Even if it sells for less than I paid, I'm OK with that, as I had the pleasure of having custody of this pleasing coin (to me) for the time I have it!
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
I honestly didn’t see any rub….just a lot of scratches and hairlines, which led me to believe that it was lightly circulated. I was fully expecting the possibility of a low MS grade. Keep it in the rattler with a sticker on it. It’s worth a lot more that way, as I don’t think it will upgrade. Thanks for sharing…. It’s a nice piece.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
Think of how many posters greatly overrated this coin.
I don't like the coin and would pass on it. The light scratches on the obverse are very distracting and I still think it has wear on the obverse as well.
@291fifth said:
Think of how many posters greatly overrated this coin.
I don't like the coin and would pass on it. The light scratches on the obverse are very distracting and I still think it has wear on the obverse as well.
I for one definitely did go overboard with speculation because my photogrphy skills suck and there lies the margin of error with this one being huge, and also fueled by the fact that OP has great taste in coins and would not settle for anything lesser when it comes to grade.
Most people who aren’t the best graders never know how to weight impacted mint surfaces (frost loss) that is shy of luster impact. all people who do know how to grade struggle with photo conditions. And some of us just get lucky
@291fifth said:
Think of how many posters greatly overrated this coin.
I don't like the coin and would pass on it. The light scratches on the obverse are very distracting and I still think it has wear on the obverse as well.
That is a small coin blown up way big, I bet it is lovely in hand. If what you said was true there would be a 99% Chance JA would pass on it. IMHO there is very few in this hobby with the bonafides to be more selective than him
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@jayPem said:
Is it just me or is liberty kind of goofy looking on the 20c...?
🤔
In the opinion of some this seated design is considered goofy looking, especially the awkward bend in the wrist holding the flag.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@emeraldATV said:
61 ...- strike
- reverse spotty @ 6 o'clock.
Just for giggles being a freshman.
For what it’s worth, the strike isn’t subpar for a business strike and I don’t see anything “spotty” on the reverse that would negatively impact the grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Forum members are all over the map on this one. Of course we don’t have the coin in hand, just doing the best we can based on images.
But even in hand, I think it’s tricky.
If it were resubmitted multiple times, I’d bet a wide range of grade outcomes would occur.
Comments
Au58
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Here's the reason that I sometimes consider two such different grade guesses... Often, it's difficult to tell from pictures (and sometimes in-person, as well), whether a coin has rub/very slight wear. If the coin in this thread does, than it looks to be AU58. On the other hand, if what we're seeing is slight weakness in strike, rather than rub/very slight wear, based on the coin's flaws, it looks approximately 63 to me, with a shot at Ms64.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What would be your reason for "UNC details"?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Makes sense!! Thanks
MS61
My YouTube Channel
I can't see that it would grade above MS62 with all the chatter; though it has a lot of fresh eye appeal for these 20c pieces.
Thanks for posting this Steve. I will go with 63+ CAC for my guess.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
The first rule of GTG is there must be a grade
The 2nd rule of GTG is there must be a grade (eventually)
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
62
My guess would be 63. I like it
Collector, occasional seller
It's time to post the grade!
64+
Ok did anyone else immediately think ‘CC?’
63
Understood, but I have some insights to share, and I'm tied up at work.
Will post it this afternoon (Eastern Time)
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
My guess is 63 due to field scratches.
63
What did I win?
BHNC #203
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Below is a photo of the slab. Here are some comments on why I bought this coin:
1. I'm putting together the four coin Twenty Cent Business Strike set (virtually all of the Carson City mintage of 1876 was melted at the mint, so it's "accepted" to omit that issue).
2. I WILL be upgrading this coin to MS63 - MS65 once I see a coin in one of those grades that I like. Hasn't happened so far! 1-1/2 weeks ago there was an MS64 on auction, graded by PCGS with a CAC, but I didn't like it! It went for "cheap" money, but a cheap price doesn't make me like a coin any better if it doesn't appeal to me.
3. I acknowledge that it's not smart to buy a coin just to plug a hole if one knows it will be upgraded. However, for the grade, I LIKE this coin, even though most others in our hobby prefer more toning. Yes, the scratches in the field is what causes the grade to be as it is.
4. I recognize this coin HAS been dipped at some point in time, but apparently gently and quickly enough that CAC deemed it still merited their sticker, due to the high luster.
5. Since it's in an OGH, and with a CAC, bidding in the auction was active, and I had to pay 62 money for it (a few hundred dollars more than 61 money).
6. By the way, this is the ONLY 1876 graded by PCGS or NGC as MS61 with a CAC! Only one MS61 has a CAC, and this one is it!
7. When the time comes that I get the upgrade I'm looking for, I'll sell this coin. I believe that one of the collectors like me that prefers coins not too heavily toned, graded by PCGS, in an OGH, and one of the few in that grade with a CAC (over time others in this grade MIGHT get a CAC), I should have no trouble finding someone to pay somewhat close to what I paid for it. Obviously, those that "guessed" lower than MS will have no interest, and that's OK. Even if it sells for less than I paid, I'm OK with that, as I had the pleasure of having custody of this pleasing coin (to me) for the time I have it!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I really had no idea what to guess, so I didn't even try. Nice explanation and worth waiting for. Thanks.
I honestly didn’t see any rub….just a lot of scratches and hairlines, which led me to believe that it was lightly circulated. I was fully expecting the possibility of a low MS grade. Keep it in the rattler with a sticker on it. It’s worth a lot more that way, as I don’t think it will upgrade. Thanks for sharing…. It’s a nice piece.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Wow, I think that looks really nice for a 61!
I thought 63.
Nice win, and you get an A for the extra comments you just posted.
Hard to guess 61 on a coin, and tough photos to judge as well. Kudos to those who nailed it.
Thanks to OP for a great write up as well!
Successful BST Transactions with: PerryHall, MrSlider, Cent1225, SurfinxHI, Blu62vette, robkool, gowithmygut, coinlieutenant, Downtown1974, MilesWaits, Shrub68, justindan
Think of how many posters greatly overrated this coin.
I don't like the coin and would pass on it. The light scratches on the obverse are very distracting and I still think it has wear on the obverse as well.
I for one definitely did go overboard with speculation because my photogrphy skills suck and there lies the margin of error with this one being huge, and also fueled by the fact that OP has great taste in coins and would not settle for anything lesser when it comes to grade.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Hairlines present in the fields around Liberty.
I know if I submitted that coin, it would come back 'details' as I've had less than that come back without a grade.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
I did too but seeing as it was in a rattler, I figured it was a lower grade at that point in time.
Most people who aren’t the best graders never know how to weight impacted mint surfaces (frost loss) that is shy of luster impact. all people who do know how to grade struggle with photo conditions. And some of us just get lucky
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
That is a small coin blown up way big, I bet it is lovely in hand. If what you said was true there would be a 99% Chance JA would pass on it. IMHO there is very few in this hobby with the bonafides to be more selective than him
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I got the important part correct, it's a CAC
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
While I don’t see the coin the same way you do, I appreciate the reply - thank you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Lighting angles can and do overemphasize light scratches.
Does 61 plus the CAC make my guess at 62 correct?
Late but would have said ms64+. Send it to cac for sticker reconsideration.
Jbknifeandcoin.com
IG: jb_rarities
Is it just me or is liberty kind of goofy looking on the 20c...?
🤔
In the opinion of some this seated design is considered goofy looking, especially the awkward bend in the wrist holding the flag.
61 ...- strike
- reverse spotty @ 6 o'clock.
Just for giggles being a freshman.
For what it’s worth, the strike isn’t subpar for a business strike and I don’t see anything “spotty” on the reverse that would negatively impact the grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was in the 63 crowd, incredible coin for a 61!
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
Forum members are all over the map on this one. Of course we don’t have the coin in hand, just doing the best we can based on images.
But even in hand, I think it’s tricky.
If it were resubmitted multiple times, I’d bet a wide range of grade outcomes would occur.