An exercise in coin pricing (two Morgans) (prices revealed in comments)

U1chicago · October 3, 2021 7:44PM

What do you think is the difference in the sales prices of the these two Morgans?
How much of a price difference do you think there should be between the two coins below?

(1)

(2)

david3142 · October 3, 2021 7:54PM

I don’t know what the first one looks like in hand but
1) probably about $10K
2) probably at least $10K

moursund · October 3, 2021 7:58PM

Smells like a CAC thread... 😱

gumby1234 · October 3, 2021 7:58PM

The second coin looks to have a lot more luster. Dont know what the price difference is but 2nd coin is definitely nicer.

U1chicago · October 3, 2021 7:59PM

@david3142 said:
I don’t know what the first one looks like in hand but
1) probably about $10K
2) probably at least $10K

Have you seen the second one in hand?

david3142 · October 3, 2021 8:00PM

@U1chicago said:

@david3142 said:
I don’t know what the first one looks like in hand but
1) probably about $10K
2) probably at least $10K

Have you seen the second one in hand?

No, but I have seen a good video of it and I was extremely impressed.

U1chicago · October 3, 2021 8:01PM

@david3142 said:

@U1chicago said:

@david3142 said:
I don’t know what the first one looks like in hand but
1) probably about $10K
2) probably at least $10K

Have you seen the second one in hand?

No, but I have seen a good video of it and I was extremely impressed.

Was it publicly posted somewhere? IG?

U1chicago · October 3, 2021 8:02PM

@moursund said:
Smells like a CAC thread... 😱

I should have edited it out.
To me it made very little difference but I know that is not true for everyone.

david3142 · October 3, 2021 8:02PM

@U1chicago said:

@david3142 said:

@U1chicago said:

@david3142 said:
I don’t know what the first one looks like in hand but
1) probably about $10K
2) probably at least $10K

Have you seen the second one in hand?

No, but I have seen a good video of it and I was extremely impressed.

Was it publicly posted somewhere? IG?

No, someone sent it to me privately.

DollarAfterDollar · October 3, 2021 8:04PM

I'd think the first coin went for a thousand dollars, The second one about 6 thousand. No real clue. Just a hunch.

U1chicago · October 3, 2021 8:04PM

@gumby1234 said:
The second coin looks to have a lot more luster. Dont know what the price difference is but 2nd coin is definitely nicer.

I'd post a video of the first coin but I don't have one of the second (and @david3142 mentioned it's not publicly available), so I'm keeping conditions as similar as possible (same as I had when considering my bids).

moursund · October 3, 2021 8:07PM

@U1chicago said:

@moursund said:
Smells like a CAC thread... 😱

I should have edited it out.
To me it made very little difference but I know that is not true for everyone.

Maybe you should have photoshopped it from one slab to the other... 🤔

TomB · October 3, 2021 8:20PM

Based upon the images, which appear to have been taken under very similar lighting conditions, I think the first coin neutral to slightly net positive toning due to the streakiness of the color and what I interpret as negative areas behind Ms. Liberty's portrait while the second coin appears to have much nicer, more uniform and vibrant color with perhaps better luster, as well.

Given this interpretation, I would think the second coin sold for multiples of the first coin.

SeattleSlammer · October 3, 2021 8:21PM

The 1st is just okay. Better than white but not exactly a sparkler.

The 2nd is no doubt a very sweet toner, but still went for too much $$$ IMO. Prices on toners lately are through the roof!

U1chicago · October 4, 2021 6:01AM

@SeattleSlammer said:
The 1st is just okay. Better than white but not exactly a sparkler.

The 2nd is no doubt a very sweet toner, but still went for too much $$$ IMO. Prices on toners lately are through the roof!

For those who have opined, here is the video and TrueView (I sent it in to regrade) of the first one:

https://instagram.com/p/CSsYlRKLb1z/embed/

TomB · October 4, 2021 6:16AM

Given the new images, I still think the second one went for multiples of the first one since the first one really doesn't strike me as being all that attractive either in video, in PCGS TV or with the first set of images. It is no doubt nicely toned and the obverse is quite thoroughly toned, but it presents as having a ruddiness or splotchiness that I don't care for.

I only have the one set of images to go by for the second coin, but again it seems to be multiples as nice as the first. Additionally, if the second coin is that much more deeply and dramatically toned in-hand than the first set of images implies (as appears to be the case with the first coin) then it might really pop in-hand with dramatic purple or fuchsia in Ms. Liberty's hair and deeper greens throughout.

WingedLiberty1957 · October 4, 2021 6:29AM

The color is much better on the 2nd one than the 1st, IMHO. Two things, a lot more green on the 2nd one and the 2nd one has really great elevation chromatics. I think the 2nd one should go 6x to 8x (maybe more who knows) of the 1st one. Parts of the 1st one look terminal.

291fifth · October 4, 2021 6:34AM

MS64 1881-S Morgans ... why anyone would pay premiums for common coins like that mystifies me. The pretty colors can't change my opinion of the value of such common coins.

airplanenut · October 4, 2021 6:41AM

@TomB said:
Given the new images, I still think the second one went for multiples of the first one since the first one really doesn't strike me as being all that attractive either in video, in PCGS TV or with the first set of images. It is no doubt nicely toned and the obverse is quite thoroughly toned, but it presents as having a ruddiness or splotchiness that I don't care for.

I only have the one set of images to go by for the second coin, but again it seems to be multiples as nice as the first. Additionally, if the second coin is that much more deeply and dramatically toned in-hand than the first set of images implies (as appears to be the case with the first coin) then it might really pop in-hand with dramatic purple or fuchsia in Ms. Liberty's hair and deeper greens throughout.

I agree with this and what Tom said prior, with the caveat that I do think the first coin looks much better in the second set of photos given I thought the area behind Liberty was previously dull on and off black, where now there's some life through it and the toning seems a bit smoother. That said, the other coin appears brighter, a much tougher color, and overall far more attractive and, as far as toning goes, rarer.

Cougar1978 · October 4, 2021 6:43AM

$115 & $130 for the CAC piece

moursund · October 4, 2021 9:47AM

@Cougar1978 said:
$115 & $130 for the CAC piece

Yeah, I'd give $250 for the pair. Shipping included?

SeattleSlammer · October 4, 2021 10:54AM

@U1chicago the TruView does do a better job of capturing the nice tones/luster on #1. Has some sparkle I’ll admit.

But what do you think of #2 bringing 10k ? Was that your consignment? If so, big congrats man!

tradedollarnut · October 4, 2021 11:09AM

Difference? 50

As in #2 50 times the amount of #1

U1chicago · October 4, 2021 11:53AM

@SeattleSlammer said:
@U1chicago the TruView does do a better job of capturing the nice tones/luster on #1. Has some sparkle I’ll admit.

But what do you think of #2 bringing 10k ? Was that your consignment? If so, big congrats man!

That was unfortunately not mine. I was surprised by the final result of $10,408. The first coin was picked up earlier this year for around $440 (which ended up being a nice win when I saw it in hand). I thought the second was better but not by that much (my evaluation is $1k for the first and $5k on the second). All I have is the photo, but I didn’t think the second coin would go over $5k when I initially saw it.

U1chicago · October 4, 2021 11:57AM

Note: the video I posted a few posts above this one is down because Instagram is currently down.

TONEDDOLLARS · October 4, 2021 12:01PM

This is somewhat amusing reading these answers. Without seeing a toned coin in hand no one can accurately set a price on these two coins.

U1chicago · October 4, 2021 12:10PM

@TONEDDOLLARS said:
This is somewhat amusing reading these answers. Without seeing a toned coin in hand no one can accurately set a price on these two coins.

Plenty of prices are set without seeing a coin in hand. We have all likely determined our max bids on at least some coins by just seeing a photo. That was more of the idea-see how people would price based on a photo if they were bidding on the coins.

Elcontador · October 4, 2021 12:20PM

My only comment is that in the first set of pics, the pic of the second coin is sharper, ignoring everything else.

TomB · October 4, 2021 1:10PM

$10K for the second coin!?!?!?!?! Holy Crud!!!

Obviously, I was not thinking that range for that coin...

Cougar1978 · October 4, 2021 1:35PM

I think $10k on that one piece is stunning. Again appears 2 well off bidders who just had to have it got in bid war. And this a common coin.

al410 · October 4, 2021 1:49PM

Buy the toning not the coin right? To each his own
Al

al410 · October 4, 2021 1:53PM

There is a syndrome called "TMM" You will figure it out
Al

MFeld · October 4, 2021 2:03PM

@al410 said:
Buy the toning not the coin right? To each his own
Al

The toning and the coin aren’t mutually exclusive - the toning is an extremely significant part of the coin.
Just out of curiosity, why didn’t you choose a color-free example for your profile picture?

YoloBagels · October 4, 2021 2:22PM

@291fifth said:
MS64 1881-S Morgans ... why anyone would pay premiums for common coins like that mystifies me.

For the same reason you would pay more for an MS68 than an MS64. 1881-S is a common date in that grade, but to have one with that level of eye-appeal is rare and in very high demand right now.

@291fifth said:

MS64 1881-S Morgans ... The pretty colors can't change my opinion of the value of such common coins.

Then your opinion is not in line with that of the numismatic market, which is 100% fine. Everyone has their preferences.

291fifth · October 4, 2021 2:27PM

@YoloBagels said:

@291fifth said:
MS64 1881-S Morgans ... why anyone would pay premiums for common coins like that mystifies me.

For the same reason you would pay more for an MS68 than an MS64. 1881-S is a common date in that grade, but to have one with that level of eye-appeal is rare and in very high demand right now.

@291fifth said:

MS64 1881-S Morgans ... The pretty colors can't change my opinion of the value of such common coins.

Then your opinion is not in line with that of the numismatic market, which is 100% fine. Everyone has their preferences.

1881-S Morgans tend to come very well struck and with excellent luster. If someone wants to spend big money on a common date like that it is their option. I am well aware that my opinion on premiums for "color" coins is not in line with today's market. Sorry, folks, but I just don't buy into the color premium bit.

MFeld · October 4, 2021 2:31PM

@291fifth said:

@YoloBagels said:

@291fifth said:
MS64 1881-S Morgans ... why anyone would pay premiums for common coins like that mystifies me.

For the same reason you would pay more for an MS68 than an MS64. 1881-S is a common date in that grade, but to have one with that level of eye-appeal is rare and in very high demand right now.

@291fifth said:

MS64 1881-S Morgans ... The pretty colors can't change my opinion of the value of such common coins.

Then your opinion is not in line with that of the numismatic market, which is 100% fine. Everyone has their preferences.

1881-S Morgans tend to come very well struck and with excellent luster. If someone wants to spend big money on a common date like that it is their option. I am well aware that my opinion on premiums for "color" coins is not in line with today's market. Sorry, folks, but I just don't buy into the color premium bit.

No one’s asking you to buy into it or change your opinion. Different people have different preferences and most are fine with that.

Catbert · October 4, 2021 2:46PM

@YoloBagels I knew there was a reason I felt younger! 😉

al410 · October 4, 2021 3:38PM

mfield, I like certain toned coins and was no way demeaning the coin , I was expressing my view on the price it brought and without the toning the coin brings no where near that price so "buy the toning not the coin". I am allowed my opinion just as you are and never do I question your opinion in the way you question others. Fact> without the toning that coin even if it was a MS66 only commands a fraction of that price.
Al

MFeld · October 4, 2021 5:20PM

@al410 said:
mfield, I like certain toned coins and was no way demeaning the coin , I was expressing my view on the price it brought and without the toning the coin brings no where near that price so "buy the toning not the coin". I am allowed my opinion just as you are and never do I question your opinion in the way you question others. Fact> without the toning that coin even if it was a MS66 only commands a fraction of that price.
Al

So that there’s no misunderstanding, I wasn’t questioning your opinion, just stating that the toning is part of the coin. And that’s regardless of how anyone (myself, included) happens to value it. I’m well aware that without the toning, the coin would only be worth a tiny fraction of the price.

SeattleSlammer · October 4, 2021 8:45PM

@U1chicago said:

@SeattleSlammer said:
@U1chicago the TruView does do a better job of capturing the nice tones/luster on #1. Has some sparkle I’ll admit.

But what do you think of #2 bringing 10k ? Was that your consignment? If so, big congrats man!

That was unfortunately not mine. I was surprised by the final result of $10,408. The first coin was picked up earlier this year for around $440 (which ended up being a nice win when I saw it in hand). I thought the second was better but not by that much (my evaluation is $1k for the first and $5k on the second). All I have is the photo, but I didn’t think the second coin would go over $5k when I initially saw it.

Seeing your vid and the TruView, $440 is indeed a nice price to pay for #1…I’d happily pay that if I ever saw it at a show for that price (unlikely).

I was thinking 1k for #1 and up to 4k for #2 with all that green, so we’re pretty close overall.

What would you guesstimate my 81-S might bring in a similar auction like GC? It’s got ridiculous dripping luster, plus the rarer OGH and bean. But a lower grade and a different range of tones. It’s one of my all time favorite coins. I bought it from Larry Shapiro years ago. I talked to him on the phone about it, and he told me that he really should charge me more for it, and I laughed…but he was insistent and said I’d understand when I got it in-hand…and indeed I agreed with him once it arrived. 🤓

Meltdown · October 5, 2021 5:09AM

That is sweet... even those crappy photo's, you can tell it's a gem.
Here's my tarnished old gal.
.

U1chicago · October 5, 2021 5:24AM

@SeattleSlammer said:

@U1chicago said:

@SeattleSlammer said:
@U1chicago the TruView does do a better job of capturing the nice tones/luster on #1. Has some sparkle I’ll admit.

But what do you think of #2 bringing 10k ? Was that your consignment? If so, big congrats man!

That was unfortunately not mine. I was surprised by the final result of $10,408. The first coin was picked up earlier this year for around $440 (which ended up being a nice win when I saw it in hand). I thought the second was better but not by that much (my evaluation is $1k for the first and $5k on the second). All I have is the photo, but I didn’t think the second coin would go over $5k when I initially saw it.

Seeing your vid and the TruView, $440 is indeed a nice price to pay for #1…I’d happily pay that if I ever saw it at a show for that price (unlikely).

I was thinking 1k for #1 and up to 4k for #2 with all that green, so we’re pretty close overall.

What would you guesstimate my 81-S might bring in a similar auction like GC? It’s got ridiculous dripping luster, plus the rarer OGH and bean. But a lower grade and a different range of tones. It’s one of my all time favorite coins. I bought it from Larry Shapiro years ago. I talked to him on the phone about it, and he told me that he really should charge me more for it, and I laughed…but he was insistent and said I’d understand when I got it in-hand…and indeed I agreed with him once it arrived. 🤓

That Morgan certainly has a pleasant look! It showcases a nice palette of colors. It doesn’t have the vivid greens that tend to push bidders to pay moon money but the eye appeal is still there. The old holder and clean surfaces (looks better than a 63) would help too. I think it would go for $500-$750 in a GC auction (quite possibly more if two people fall in love). If I was selling, I’d hold out for moon money as it’s too nice to let go at market/retail rates.

DollarAfterDollar · October 5, 2021 7:20AM

@Cougar1978 said:
$115 & $130 for the CAC piece

It's like bringing coins into a coin shop for an offer.

TONEDDOLLARS · October 5, 2021 3:09PM

@U1chicago said:

@TONEDDOLLARS said:
This is somewhat amusing reading these answers. Without seeing a toned coin in hand no one can accurately set a price on these two coins.

Plenty of prices are set without seeing a coin in hand. We have all likely determined our max bids on at least some coins by just seeing a photo. That was more of the idea-see how people would price based on a photo if they were bidding on the coins.

Only a fool would price and or buy a toned Morgan without seeing it in hand. I’ve been involved with toned Morgan’s since before they were popular and commanded these crazy premiums. There are those who have responded to this thread who know me and know exactly what I’m saying. A fool and his money are soon parted.

U1chicago · October 5, 2021 3:12PM

@TONEDDOLLARS said:

@U1chicago said:

@TONEDDOLLARS said:
This is somewhat amusing reading these answers. Without seeing a toned coin in hand no one can accurately set a price on these two coins.

Plenty of prices are set without seeing a coin in hand. We have all likely determined our max bids on at least some coins by just seeing a photo. That was more of the idea-see how people would price based on a photo if they were bidding on the coins.

Only a fool would price and or buy a toned Morgan without seeing it in hand. I’ve been involved with toned Morgan’s since before they were popular and commanded these crazy premiums. There are those who have responded to this thread who know me and know exactly what I’m saying. A fool and his money are soon parted.

I guess you can call me a fool then as 90% of my toners were bought from pictures online.

TONEDDOLLARS · October 5, 2021 3:15PM

@U1chicago said:

@TONEDDOLLARS said:

@U1chicago said:

@TONEDDOLLARS said:
This is somewhat amusing reading these answers. Without seeing a toned coin in hand no one can accurately set a price on these two coins.

Plenty of prices are set without seeing a coin in hand. We have all likely determined our max bids on at least some coins by just seeing a photo. That was more of the idea-see how people would price based on a photo if they were bidding on the coins.

Only a fool would price and or buy a toned Morgan without seeing it in hand. I’ve been involved with toned Morgan’s since before they were popular and commanded these crazy premiums. There are those who have responded to this thread who know me and know exactly what I’m saying. A fool and his money are soon parted.

I guess you can call me a fool then as 90% of my toners were bought from pictures online.

And I’m sure they look it

tradedollarnut · October 5, 2021 3:24PM

Video shows the colors so much better than the first picture

U1chicago · October 5, 2021 3:59PM

@TONEDDOLLARS said:

@U1chicago said:

@TONEDDOLLARS said:

@U1chicago said:

@TONEDDOLLARS said:
This is somewhat amusing reading these answers. Without seeing a toned coin in hand no one can accurately set a price on these two coins.

Plenty of prices are set without seeing a coin in hand. We have all likely determined our max bids on at least some coins by just seeing a photo. That was more of the idea-see how people would price based on a photo if they were bidding on the coins.

Only a fool would price and or buy a toned Morgan without seeing it in hand. I’ve been involved with toned Morgan’s since before they were popular and commanded these crazy premiums. There are those who have responded to this thread who know me and know exactly what I’m saying. A fool and his money are soon parted.

I guess you can call me a fool then as 90% of my toners were bought from pictures online.

And I’m sure they look it

Aren’t you lovely

An exercise in coin pricing (two Morgans) (prices revealed in comments)

Comments

Leave a Comment

Categories