Common Auction Participants
OldIndianNutKase
Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭✭✭
On most all significant auctions with Heritage, Stacks Bowers or Legend, I see a troubling indication that one or two bidders seem to be the successful bidder in many lots. IN fact a HUGE amount of lots, that all track back to their bidder or paddle number. In the latest Stacks auction, Session 2 bidder no. 666 made a lot of purchases of lots that do not make sense that 666 is a collector or a dealer. Same for bidder no. 9831.
I am concerned that one of these bidders is the house bidding to establish an unpublished reserve. And the other is the consignor bidding to maintain the value of his consignment.
I find both practices both dishonest and unethical. Reminds of how gold mines used to be "salted" back in the day. The consignor/auction house are working together to artificially drive the value of the consignor's coins.
Do you think that auctions should be factually represented as unreserved auctions?
OINK
Comments
No way is that happening!
peacockcoins
I have no basis on which to judge the specific bidders you refer to, but I think the house and consignor should stay out of the bidding (as a general statement). The option for a reserve exists and I’m opposed further manipulation.
The actual numbers for wins for bidder no. 666 were 43+ and the actual number of wins for bidder no. 9831 were 33+, and I was not counting everything in the auction as I took time out for dinner etc. And I have no record as to the bids they were pushing, only the ones that they "won". That is at least 76 lots out of 263 in the Byers Collection.
You do not think that this happening????
Dear @OldIndianNutKase ,
I can confirm that neither of the bidders you reference were the consignor or house. Its quite common for top collectors and dealers to be very active in specialized collections such as Byers. Feel free to call or email me if you'd like to discuss.
I appreciate you watching and participating in the sale.
Brian
If it is, and that is a very big if, then the consignor is doing a terrible job of it. I'm just really unhappy if 76 (or more) of my 263 lots go unsold due to my antics. Not to mention that no matter how generous the contract is I'm still paying BP on at least 33 lots. Let's say that the consignor has negotiated a -10% seller fee. That is he gets a net 110% of hammer. Let's say further that bidder no. 666 was the secret reserve and that it was negotiated that there be no fees for lots where the reserve is not met. Note that I have my doubts that any collection could be so attractive that any AH would agree to all of them. This would mean that the consignor would pay 12.5% (net) on at least 33 of the items he offers and have to keep them. Horrible deal for the consignor.
Well, ya know that tree does have to have a bidder number!
Many dealers are also bidding for their clients. So that one bidder number could in essence be buying for several different people.
nothing more than paranoid conspiracy thinking, but that is representative of the era we are in.
At my last unclaimed property auction I saw one guy buy 100+ lots of every description (often beating me by 1 increment). He was definitely not a plant, as I know his shop. Some guys bid a lot.
Aercus Numismatics - Certified coins for sale
who was the old guy, maybe Ford, that used to stand at the front of auctions and just hold his paddle in the air??
Pittman
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
That was the famous "Statue of Liberty" sale where Pittman did that when a Proof Type II Gold Dollar went up for sale. That could work two ways. #1 you could intimidate the competition. #2 the competition get PO'd and runs you up for spite.
Ford was much too savvy to do something like that.
thanks guys.
There was a Washingtoniana(?) sale a couple of years back in which Forum member @Dwight_M likely bought 90% of the lots. I was at the sale of the Byers Half Dollars 15 years ago. Admittedly ancient history. Not a turkey shoot (mostly), but definitely unreserved.
The more specialized the collection, the smaller the group of specialists contending. If anything gets bought back in, that group of specialists know its value was initially inflated beyond what any would have paid initially. Even with a free buyback, stigma attaches.