I have another idea for the circular file.... (update - the idea already exists!)

ms70 · August 16, 2021 9:45AM

Regarding major coin shows like ANA, FUN, etc.....

If there was a website where registered dealers could load their show inventory in advance of shows (pics, prices, etc) and on the day of the show it goes live. People who can't make the show can buy or make offers through the site. Maybe the dealers can have an app that notifies them of purchases/offers and they can respond in a timely fashion.

Possibly the site can break down the inventory by dealer, type of coin, certification, etc...

Dealers can add inventory they take in as well. At the end of the show the ability to purchase ceases and loose ends get wrapped up between the dealer and customer.

Is it a win/win idea for dealers & customers or no?

I would have loved to been at the ANA but was unable to go. This might have helped me find some of my want list items.

Aercus · August 16, 2021 9:54AM

This seems like an area where PCGS could try and leverage some sort of brand advantage. Let dealers scan in inventory via the app, spreadsheet, or manual type in. Restrict to PCGS coins and tie it to collectors corner or something. Boom, now you have a bunch of customers searching out pcgs coins specifically. Of course, to be useful, you would need a critical mass of dealers and buyers...

gumby1234 · August 16, 2021 3:19PM

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of a coin show?

rmorgan · August 16, 2021 3:20PM

I assume this adds a significant burden to a dealer (who may be bringing thousands of coins). photography of inventory, entering info per coin, managing the list when something sells, etc.
If a dealer is willing take the time to do this, then they will get their own site where they list what they have, take down items that sell, and basically sell it online and ship the coins. Some have, most haven't.
At the beginning of a show, dealers sell between themselves. How are they going to manage the online list with lots of fast moving in-and-out of inventory? Are they going to disappoint those showing up if the coin got moved to another dealer and is then who-knows-where?

Sure, as a consumer this sounds great. I suspect it introduces the dealer to a whole lot of extra energy+time which would force the dealer to either raise rates or just not do it.

ms70 · August 16, 2021 4:48PM

@gumby1234 said:
Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of a coin show?

Not for those who can't get there.

gumby1234 · August 16, 2021 4:51PM

I am one who can't get there so I understand what you are saying. However posting all the dealers coins online in advance would make people less inclined to go to a show. I think it would be more like an online auction.

ms70 · August 16, 2021 6:07PM

@gumby1234 said:
I am one who can't get there so I understand what you are saying. However posting all the dealers coins online in advance would make people less inclined to go to a show. I think it would be more like an online auction.

They would post them in advance but the site doesn't go live until day one of the show.

jesbroken · August 16, 2021 6:15PM

@gumby1234 said:
Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of a coin show?

What selling more coins and reaching a group of collectors without the method or ability to travel. A large portion of our coin hobby members are elderly and only have access to ebays and the sort, but still love the atmosphere of coin shows. I think it would be a wonderful idea and might even grow the hobby.
Jim

Edited to add: The opportunity for buyer seller relationships to be formed could only enhance a buyer and a seller's growth potential.

gumby1234 · August 16, 2021 6:21PM

@jesbroken I am one who can't make it to any of the large coin shows with all the awesome coins like the ANA or FUN shows. The people who can't make the shows and have internet can view and buy coins from most of the dealers that attend these shows anyways. Posting a preview of all the coins for a show would be a great amount of extra work for dealers it also makes it feel like a preview for those large auction houses. What incentive would you have to go to the show if you could do it all from your kitchen table with your coffee. I personally like going to the shows that I can. and meeting new people.

EDIT- Also what about collectors selling coins and trading coins? I always sell a few and then buy a few.

Along · August 16, 2021 6:25PM

If everything was online and I was at the show, I would just look at my phone all day?

jesbroken · August 16, 2021 6:28PM

@gumby1234 said:
@jesbroken I am one who can't make it to any of the large coin shows with all the awesome coins like the ANA or FUN shows. The people who can't make the shows and have internet can view and buy coins from most of the dealers that attend these shows anyways. Posting a preview of all the coins for a show would be a great amount of extra work for dealers it also makes it feel like a preview for those large auction houses. What incentive would you have to go to the show if you could do it all from your kitchen table with your coffee. I personally like going to the shows that I can. and meeting new people.

Gumby, I live in Southern WVA and also attend very few coin shows since the end of them in Appalachia in the early 80s, where I woud attend as many as 30 or more local shows each year since the 60's. Now its been 12 years since my last major show and I only have one dealer left near me and he doesn't carry much in the last couple of years that I buy. We have done a lot of business in the past but not lately. I, therefore, must utilize the internet for most purchases and sales. It would be wonderful to have a preview from the various dealers attending whom might even eventually have live broadcasts from their sales tables via youtube or some other venue. You would also feel like you participated in the event. Yes most sellers would look at it as an additional cost of money and time, but I think they would benefit from the additional sales participation from buyers possibly selling to them as a new inventory venue they had not previously had. Just an opinion.
Jim

gumby1234 · August 16, 2021 6:34PM

@jesbroken I know what you are saying. I went to my first coin show in over 20 years recently. the Bay State coin show. I brought about 10-12 coins to sell. Sold 8 coins. Bought 5 coins and had $140 more cash than I went with. Im just saying the coin show environment is different and it would be hard for dealers to keep up with live contact and internet. They already have a tough time just keeping up with the people at the show sometimes. And making sure nobody is stealing stuff. Theres always at least 1 shady character looking to rip some stuff off.

winesteven · August 16, 2021 7:39PM

@ms70 , your wish has (mostly) been granted!

If you go to collectorscorner.com, look at the 8th tab near the top, it says “Shows”. About one week before the major show starts (Long Beach is the next one) participating dealers list their inventory, showing photos and prices. While not all dealers at a show participate, many of the large and mid size dealers do.

If I plan on going to that show, I use the filters to quickly and easily peruse that list to drill down to the coins on my “Want List”. I then contact the dealers, and either make the purchase(s), or arrange with them to hold the coins for me for when I then see them opening morning to look at the coins in hand.
2. I was not at the ANA show, but I arranged and completed the purchases of 10 real nice coins for my new Indian Head Cent set. To make the set challenging, in addition to each coin being problem-free and with nice eye appeal, I’m requiring each coin to be graded by PCGS, have a CAC, AND also have Rick Snow’s Eagle Eye Photo Seal. Using the steps in #1 above, I located three nice coins that fit the bill with one dealer and completed the purchases before she arrived at the show. I then used the filters and found 10 coins among two different dealers, graded by PCGS with CAC’s with nice eye appeal but no Photo Seal. I then let them know that Rick Snow was having a table at the show, and I would buy the coins at our negotiated prices (plus $15 per coin that succeeded for the cost of the Photo Seal) that Rick said merited his Photo Seal. Six of the 10 coins got it (one of the four that didn’t had a Simpson pedigree on the label). Rick then took those six coins home with him to Tucson to apply the Photo Seals and to create the plasticized cards for each coin. Rick Snow is also on the lookout for me, and he called me from the show when he bought a nice PCGS Indian with a CAC, letting me know he’ll be applying his Photo Seal, so I bought that coin too. Getting 10 nice coins meeting my challenging needs without even being there shocked even me. Here’s a hotlink to the beginnings of this set:

https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/half-cents/indian-cents-major-sets/indian-cents-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1859-1909/publishedset/266583

Steve

jesbroken · August 16, 2021 9:10PM

@winesteven
Nice set you have going. Thanks for sharing the details of your transactions and the CollectorsCorner access site. I will give that a try. I have bought coins before thru CC, but was not aware of the coins show connection.
Jim

ricko · August 17, 2021 4:40AM

Interesting idea. Though not for all dealers, no doubt it could enhance business for many that have the capabilities to deal with simultaneous live and online action. It has been a long time since I have been to a show. So I do a lot of online viewing/buying anyway. As long as the functionality exceeds that of the U.S. Mint, it could work well. Cheers, RickO

ms70 · August 17, 2021 1:42PM

@gumby1234 said:
Posting a preview of all the coins for a show would be a great amount of extra work for dealers it also makes it feel like a preview for those large auction houses. What incentive would you have to go to the show if you could do it all from your kitchen table with your coffee. I personally like going to the shows that I can. and meeting new people.

EDIT- Also what about collectors selling coins and trading coins? I always sell a few and then buy a few.

It seems some people are not accurately reading my original post. I never mentioned any sort of "preview". I said the dealers could load their inventory in advance of the show and on the day of the show the website goes live.

ms70 · August 17, 2021 1:56PM

@winesteven said:
@ms70 , your wish has (mostly) been granted!

If you go to collectorscorner.com, look at the 8th tab near the top, it says “Shows”. About one week before the major show starts (Long Beach is the next one) participating dealers list their inventory, showing photos and prices. While not all dealers at a show participate, many of the large and mid size dealers do.
Steve

All the times I've been to collectorscorner.com I've never clicked on the "Shows" link just thinking it was only going to bring me to a list of shows they go to. Thank you @winesteven for bringing this to my (and everyone else's) attention! It needs to be advertised a little bit more! It's pretty much what I was thinking about but it has a preview which personally is the only thing I'd do different. I'll be looking forward to checking it out as the shows get closer!

Link to collectorscorner.com shows: https://www.collectorscorner.com/TradeShow/

ColonelJessup · August 17, 2021 6:08PM

@ms70 said:

@gumby1234 said:
Posting a preview of all the coins for a show would be a great amount of extra work for dealers it also makes it feel like a preview for those large auction houses. What incentive would you have to go to the show if you could do it all from your kitchen table with your coffee. I personally like going to the shows that I can. and meeting new people.

EDIT- Also what about collectors selling coins and trading coins? I always sell a few and then buy a few.

It seems some people are not accurately reading my original post. I never mentioned any sort of "preview". I said the dealers could load their inventory in advance of the show and on the day of the show the website goes live.

Why would any dealer want to wait until the day of the show? The coins are already in inventory. What rationale could there be that doesn't do disservice to his own interest in selling whatever he can whenever he can?

ms70 · August 18, 2021 5:52AM

@ColonelJessup said:

@ms70 said:

@gumby1234 said:
Posting a preview of all the coins for a show would be a great amount of extra work for dealers it also makes it feel like a preview for those large auction houses. What incentive would you have to go to the show if you could do it all from your kitchen table with your coffee. I personally like going to the shows that I can. and meeting new people.

EDIT- Also what about collectors selling coins and trading coins? I always sell a few and then buy a few.

It seems some people are not accurately reading my original post. I never mentioned any sort of "preview". I said the dealers could load their inventory in advance of the show and on the day of the show the website goes live.

Why would any dealer want to wait until the day of the show? The coins are already in inventory. What rationale could there be that doesn't do disservice to his own interest in selling whatever he can whenever he can?

That's like asking why are their auction previews when they can just sell the coin. There wouldn't be a coin show if the coins were gone in advance.

ColonelJessup · August 18, 2021 6:44AM

@ms70 said:

@ColonelJessup said:

@ms70 said:

@gumby1234 said:
Posting a preview of all the coins for a show would be a great amount of extra work for dealers it also makes it feel like a preview for those large auction houses. What incentive would you have to go to the show if you could do it all from your kitchen table with your coffee. I personally like going to the shows that I can. and meeting new people.

EDIT- Also what about collectors selling coins and trading coins? I always sell a few and then buy a few.

It seems some people are not accurately reading my original post. I never mentioned any sort of "preview". I said the dealers could load their inventory in advance of the show and on the day of the show the website goes live.

Why would any dealer want to wait until the day of the show? The coins are already in inventory. What rationale could there be that doesn't do disservice to his own interest in selling whatever he can whenever he can?

That's like asking why are their auction previews when they can just sell the coin. There wouldn't be a coin show if the coins were gone in advance.

But ALL the coins are never gone in advance. And many good ones come home without a buyer.

The auction preview is a false analogy, There is one discrete opportunity to purchase at an auction. It doesn't matter when the auction is posted. From a dealer's standpoint, he costs himself money because he loses am opportunity to serve his entire customer base to theoretically favor a smaller segment.

A dealer comes to a show to sell to people at the show. Think of a two-person operation doing this. It's the first day at the show. The highest impact point for new sales. The busiest traffic and the best bonding opportunities are the time when a dealer is least inclined to expend time filling online orders. I don't think you can realistically expect someone to spend their time on an online order that may be returned when there's a live cash buyer for the coin sitting in front of them.

I have several other reasons the overall concept is flawed, but enlightened self-interest on the part of the dealer seems reason enough.

ms70 · August 18, 2021 6:46AM

@ColonelJessup said:

@ms70 said:

@ColonelJessup said:

@ms70 said:

@gumby1234 said:
Posting a preview of all the coins for a show would be a great amount of extra work for dealers it also makes it feel like a preview for those large auction houses. What incentive would you have to go to the show if you could do it all from your kitchen table with your coffee. I personally like going to the shows that I can. and meeting new people.

EDIT- Also what about collectors selling coins and trading coins? I always sell a few and then buy a few.

It seems some people are not accurately reading my original post. I never mentioned any sort of "preview". I said the dealers could load their inventory in advance of the show and on the day of the show the website goes live.

Why would any dealer want to wait until the day of the show? The coins are already in inventory. What rationale could there be that doesn't do disservice to his own interest in selling whatever he can whenever he can?

That's like asking why are their auction previews when they can just sell the coin. There wouldn't be a coin show if the coins were gone in advance.

But ALL the coins are never gone in advance. And many good ones come home without a buyer.

The auction preview is a false analogy, There is one discrete opportunity to purchase at an auction. It doesn't matter when the auction is posted. From a dealer's standpoint, he costs himself money because he loses am opportunity to serve his entire customer base to theoretically favor a smaller segment.

A dealer comes to a show to sell to people at the show. Think of a two-person operation doing this. It's the first day at the show. The highest impact point for new sales. The busiest traffic and the best bonding opportunities are the time when a dealer is least inclined to expend time filling online orders. I don't think you can realistically expect someone to spend their time on an online order that may be returned when there's a live cash buyer for the coin sitting in front of them.

Apparently they like doing it over at collectorscorner.com. I guess it works for them.

mr1931S · August 18, 2021 6:50AM

Yours truly is a collector who goes to coin show to get away from the internet.

ColonelJessup · August 18, 2021 7:04AM

@ms70 said:

@ColonelJessup said:

@ms70 said:

@ColonelJessup said:

@ms70 said:

@gumby1234 said:
Posting a preview of all the coins for a show would be a great amount of extra work for dealers it also makes it feel like a preview for those large auction houses. What incentive would you have to go to the show if you could do it all from your kitchen table with your coffee. I personally like going to the shows that I can. and meeting new people.

EDIT- Also what about collectors selling coins and trading coins? I always sell a few and then buy a few.

It seems some people are not accurately reading my original post. I never mentioned any sort of "preview". I said the dealers could load their inventory in advance of the show and on the day of the show the website goes live.

Why would any dealer want to wait until the day of the show? The coins are already in inventory. What rationale could there be that doesn't do disservice to his own interest in selling whatever he can whenever he can?

That's like asking why are their auction previews when they can just sell the coin. There wouldn't be a coin show if the coins were gone in advance.

But ALL the coins are never gone in advance. And many good ones come home without a buyer.

The auction preview is a false analogy, There is one discrete opportunity to purchase at an auction. It doesn't matter when the auction is posted. From a dealer's standpoint, he costs himself money because he loses am opportunity to serve his entire customer base to theoretically favor a smaller segment.

A dealer comes to a show to sell to people at the show. Think of a two-person operation doing this. It's the first day at the show. The highest impact point for new sales. The busiest traffic and the best bonding opportunities are the time when a dealer is least inclined to expend time filling online orders. I don't think you can realistically expect someone to spend their time on an online order that may be returned when there's a live cash buyer for the coin sitting in front of them.

Apparently they like doing it over at collectorscorner.com. I guess it works for them.

You just heard about the collectorscorner.com feature yesterday. I haven't researched it at all. Are you now telling me that you're seeing everything you want there? Dealers posting coins and refusing to sell them until what is, for the dealer, conceivably the least optimal time?

Is your problem now solved?
If yes, your point is now moot.
If yes or no, I, as a regular customer of that dealer (rather than a unvetted newbie) will give that dealer a piece of my mind when he refuses to service my needs.

"Rick, I know you want that coin, and I have it, but you'll have to snipe for it the minute the show opens. My hypothetical future customer must be served equally...." - that's not a likely conversation. At all. Not for someone who wants to stay in business.

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"

ms70 · August 18, 2021 7:05AM

@mr1874 said:
Yours truly is a collector who goes to coin show to get away from the internet.

The point of the thread is for those who can't get to coin shows.

ColonelJessup · August 18, 2021 7:47AM

@ms70 said:

@mr1874 said:
Yours truly is a collector who goes to coin show to get away from the internet.

The point of the thread is for those who can't get to coin shows.

They should reconcile themselves to the fact that, whatever their virtues, in this competition, they are second-class citizens. Always have been. The internet has made it better for them, but they are always at a disadvantage.

Let me put it in my inimitable most gentle voice. You're screwed.

edited to add: If your amended title is correct, why are we still discussing this?

ms70 · August 18, 2021 9:32AM

@ColonelJessup said:

@ms70 said:

@mr1874 said:
Yours truly is a collector who goes to coin show to get away from the internet.

The point of the thread is for those who can't get to coin shows.

They should reconcile themselves to the fact that, whatever their virtues, in this competition, they are second-class citizens. Always have been. The internet has made it better for them, but they are always at a disadvantage.

Let me put it in my inimitable most gentle voice. You're screwed.

edited to add: If your amended title is correct, why are we still discussing this?

I guess because you keep wanting the last word.

ColonelJessup · August 18, 2021 10:01AM

OK, I apologize... you said it was a pie-in-the-sky idea from minute one. I thought you or others might be interested in a different perspective that might illuminate some of the bottlenecks that make the relative unwieldiness and impracticality of the process you're suggesting more understandable.

I just looked at that site and I find no indication that the opening date for any sale is other than than at the moment of listing. This does not satisfy your requirement that no coins be posted for sale before a show, nor that they be withheld from potential sale until a specified later time.

@ms70 said:
It seems some people are not accurately reading my original post. I never mentioned any sort of "preview". I said the dealers could load their inventory in advance of the show and on the day of the show the website goes live.

Collectors Corner? The feature you have described is designed specifically as input for an app intended for attendees at show who can cruise attending dealers' posted inventory online while optimizing their time.

Just my dollar's worth of sense.

You were on target from minute one. Circular file.

I have another idea for the circular file.... (update - the idea already exists!)

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