GTG'ers Threads
MOS0231
Posts: 108 ✭✭✭
I've seen a lot of these threads posted here. Many of you guys can look at a coin and be within one grade, plus or minus. Plus, know if it's been damaged or cleaned.
I enjoy testing my novice grading skills. When I first see the coin the member posted, I give it a grade in my mind without scrolling down to see your opinions. Then I grab my Red Book and compare the grading description to my initial guess. After that, I scroll down and compare my guess with you guys.
Just my mode of trying to learn.
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you can also use this: https://www.pcgs.com/photograde
and browse specific coins to see the grade ranges assigned: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts
It's sort of fun trying to grade from photos, but it has significant limitations. Luster and hairlines are really hard to evaluate. So much depends on the photo technique.
You're much better off looking through a bunch coins with an expert grader (if you can corner one) and learning the why behind the grades. The slope of your learning will be much steeper.
If you want to try a few, search through some of my threads on this. Over the last year, I did several series of 3-coin GTGs and explained why I thought they got the grades they did.
@MOS0231 I've been playing the grading game since before the TPG's took control. Back then we learned "coin grading" by argueing, barganing over grade and price at local coin shops and shows. I was lucky enough to have a shop that enjoyed encouraging us young collectors and would spend hours showing and explaining to us why a coin was xf or au or ms. That is something coin collecting has lost with all those little mom and pop coin shops gone..
even with 40+ years of coin collecting under my belt I'm still often lucky to be within a point of the TPG grades
lastly a lot of those GTGs are posted looking for an opinion of the "TPGs" given grade on the coin. I think most of us believe we own at least one "undergraded" coin.
and the eternal question.... Should I send it in to be regraded? 
https://www.cointalk.com/media/albums/the-2020-20-large-cent-set.1855/
Most of us understand the limitations of grading a photograph but that's what we are being asked to do in a GTG thread. No need to repeat "I need to see the coin". If there are discrepancies between the actual grade and your guess the difference isn't necessarily a shortcoming in your grading skill although sometimes you might missing things in the photograph others spot. Even TPG have more than one person assessing the grade because sometimes things get missed by one person and picked up by another.
As others have mentioned, I also started learning to grade from a mom n pop coin shop when I was about 11 or 12 years old... unfortunately, these are fewer and further between. I took a long hiatus from coins and by the time I got back into it, grading from photos became a necessity. This is a completely different learning curve to mount. In today's market, being able to assess a coin from photos and being able to grade one in hand are both needful skills...
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I agree with you that looking in hand will hone your skills a lot quicker. A coin show is a great way to see a lot of graded coins quickly if you don't have a trusted mentor. Plus they can be a good way to meet people who can help you.
That being said, being able to grade from pictures of varying quality is an essential survival skill for collectors these days. Online purchasing is becoming a larger part of our hobby all the time. Ebay sold items is a virtual graveyard of people who think they know how to interpret pictures of raw coins. Therefore, I think the GTG threads here are definitely a valuable resource. I also really appreciate it when people take the time to explain WHY they agree or disagree with a grade, like you do in your threads. We have some great teachers here for sure.
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Yes, obviously pictures and in-hand grading are to different animals. I guess it's incumbent for the OP to post the best pictures he can, lighting, size of pictures, close-up details, focus, etc.. Although, the True View pictures here look good enough to eat!!
Grading from pictures can be tricky, as stated above. Also (as mentioned), TPG's have several graders and a finalizer before assigning a grade. This is because there are no true standards. So, yes, you can become proficient at grading. At least up to a point... since usually there will be differing opinions on any given coin - even slabbed coins. Continue to study (resources mentioned above and others) and you will get better. Cheers, RickO
Yes, I guess the main word that comes to mind here would be SUBJECTIVE.
Thanks for the feedback guys.
The best way to learn about grading from photos is to be a coin photographer. It’s very interesting to know what you can display and what you can hide. If I get a minute later today I’ll post some examples.
If utilized to their maximum advantage, such threads can be very good learning experiences.
However, all that the participants have to go on is the images provided, so if those images aren’t representative of the coin’s true appearance, the thread is typically of far less value. And unfortunately, that’s often the case. If someone can’t post reasonably representative pictures, there’s not much point to the “guess the grade”.
There are times when a member guesses the grade correctly, but they’re “wrong”. That’s because, based on the images, themselves, the coin shouldn’t have received that grade and the person just got lucky. Other times, someone guesses the grade incorrectly, but they were “right”, based on what showed in the images. My point is, the reasoning, discussions and learning from such threads are far more important than guessing the grade “correctly”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
OK, as threatened, here are some examples I've pulled from my own photo endeavors.
This $10 Indian is particularly nice as the photo shows, and it might even be tempting to assign it a fairly high MS grade. In the photo it's tremendous, especially for the assigned MS62 CAC grade.
When you photograph it at a certain angle, you can pick up something that is easily seen in-hand, but EASY to hide in a photo:
The coin has had a light wipe, which is pretty common on gold, but it's an otherwise STELLAR coin. So.... what to do? I think the MS62 "net" grade is perfect, and obviously CAC agrees. It's an easy coin to sell on the Internet at MS62 though!
Here's another. This is a key-date coin that looks pretty darn clean in this photo. Perhaps an upgrade candidate? Again, from this photo it's pretty easy to sell this one.
Turn the light a different direction, and voila..... now we know why it isn't in a gem holder. The light graze is unfortunately perfectly centered on the cheek - the key focal point of a Peace dollar.
Great examples, Bryce!
Sometimes flaws are unintentionally hidden in images, due to lighting and/or angles. But other times, they’re intentionally manipulated, in order to hide problems. It can help if you know the seller and can get a feel for his imaging.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thanks for sharing those Bryce.