Is this Seated Dollar real or fake?

comma · August 7, 2021 11:59AM

Need some help determining if this seated dollar is real.

-It is non-magnetic
-It tings true (sounds like a bell) compared to other silver dollars
-the story it came with is that it was found while plowing in 1949.
-There appears to be some kind of sticker residue or something on both sides that can only be seen at a certain angle (see last photo)

I've always wanted a low grade seated dollar I could pocket carry, put on a keychain, or wear on a chain. I'm only concerned with if the coin is authentic or fake at this point.

Here are some detailed photos:

MrBluster · August 7, 2021 12:13PM

Is this a trick question?

comma · August 7, 2021 12:15PM

@MrBluster said:
Is this a trick question?

No, why would it be? Just trying to make sure it's a real seated dollar and I don't know enough about them to tell

kaz · August 7, 2021 12:24PM

It's actually a Seated Liberty Dollar, as opposed to a Trade Dollar which has a different design and was first issued in 1873.
That being said, the obverse showing so much less detail than the reverse makes me lean towards "fake" but there is a lot of damage going on too.

comma · August 7, 2021 12:31PM

@kaz said:
It's actually a Seated Liberty Dollar, as opposed to a Trade Dollar which has a different design and was first issued in 1873.
That being said, the obverse showing so much less detail than the reverse makes me lean towards "fake" but there is a lot of damage going on too.

Thanks, that was a typo on the trade dollar. Yeah, that's why I was torn. I hate that there are fakes out there. It caused me to get out of collecting several years back but trying to get back into it. I'm mostly into well worn coins so I don't like buying slabs. But it's hard knowing what is real anymore. Hoping somebody has some way to check for sure on these

291fifth · August 7, 2021 12:37PM

I hope it was really cheap. Even if real, which I suspect it is, it is little more than a melt coin. I personally would not have purchased it.

comma · August 7, 2021 12:40PM

@291fifth said:
I hope it was really cheap. Even if real, which I suspect it is, it is little more than a melt coin. I personally would not have purchased it.

I paid about 2.5x melt. I thought that was a good deal but I guess I don't really know the market. I was honestly looking for one with a hole and in rough condition so I didn't feel bad carrying or wearing it

291fifth · August 7, 2021 12:43PM

@comma said:

@291fifth said:
I hope it was really cheap. Even if real, which I suspect it is, it is little more than a melt coin. I personally would not have purchased it.

I paid about 2.5x melt. I thought that was a good deal but I guess I don't really know the market. I was honestly looking for one with a hole and in rough condition so I didn't feel bad carrying or wearing it

My opinion: 2 1/2 times melt is way too high for that piece. It is a cull's cull. I'd return it for a refund if you can.

comma · August 7, 2021 12:46PM

@291fifth said:

@comma said:

@291fifth said:
I hope it was really cheap. Even if real, which I suspect it is, it is little more than a melt coin. I personally would not have purchased it.

I paid about 2.5x melt. I thought that was a good deal but I guess I don't really know the market. I was honestly looking for one with a hole and in rough condition so I didn't feel bad carrying or wearing it

My opinion: 2 1/2 times melt is way too high for that piece. It is a cull's cull. I'd return it for a refund if you can.

I've never seen a cull seated dollar sell for less than $75. Where do they sell so low?
Honestly more concerned if it's real or not than what I paid. I personally feel like I got a good deal if it's real

TomB · August 7, 2021 12:56PM

Looks real to me.

MFeld · August 7, 2021 1:17PM

Looking just at the obverse, I would have strongly suspected that the coin was counterfeit. But considering the reverse, it looks like a badly messed up, genuine example.

291fifth · August 7, 2021 1:18PM

@comma said:

@291fifth said:

@comma said:

@291fifth said:
I hope it was really cheap. Even if real, which I suspect it is, it is little more than a melt coin. I personally would not have purchased it.

I paid about 2.5x melt. I thought that was a good deal but I guess I don't really know the market. I was honestly looking for one with a hole and in rough condition so I didn't feel bad carrying or wearing it

My opinion: 2 1/2 times melt is way too high for that piece. It is a cull's cull. I'd return it for a refund if you can.

I've never seen a cull seated dollar sell for less than $75. Where do they sell so low?
Honestly more concerned if it's real or not than what I paid. I personally feel like I got a good deal if it's real

It is not just a matter of price. The coin is just plain awful. Holed, harshly cleaned, severe rim damage.

comma · August 7, 2021 1:29PM

@291fifth said:

@comma said:

@291fifth said:

@comma said:

@291fifth said:
I hope it was really cheap. Even if real, which I suspect it is, it is little more than a melt coin. I personally would not have purchased it.

I paid about 2.5x melt. I thought that was a good deal but I guess I don't really know the market. I was honestly looking for one with a hole and in rough condition so I didn't feel bad carrying or wearing it

My opinion: 2 1/2 times melt is way too high for that piece. It is a cull's cull. I'd return it for a refund if you can.

I've never seen a cull seated dollar sell for less than $75. Where do they sell so low?
Honestly more concerned if it's real or not than what I paid. I personally feel like I got a good deal if it's real

It is not just a matter of price. The coin is just plain awful. Holed, harshly cleaned, severe rim damage.

You mentioned the price being too high, that's why I was referring to price. This is the kind of seated dollar I want, holed and damaged. I personally have not been able to ever find one for less than what I paid. But if anybody has any seated culls for sale for near melt please let me know!

comma · August 7, 2021 1:31PM

@MFeld said:
Looking just at the obverse, I would have strongly suspected that the coin was counterfeit. But considering the reverse, it looks like a badly messed up, genuine example.

Just out of curiosity, what looks wrong about the obverse?

Dave99B · August 7, 2021 1:40PM

PCGS MS64+, easy. Has that nice ‘freshly minted’ look serious collectors demand! Gold CAC too.

Dave

fathom · August 7, 2021 1:54PM

A coin dealer should not sell that coin. It's a giveaway or melt.

It's a good lesson.

comma · August 7, 2021 1:57PM

@fathom said:
A coin dealer should not sell that coin. It's a giveaway or melt.

It's a good lesson.

I'll take any of these you have or know of and pay over melt. Send me a message

MFeld · August 7, 2021 2:08PM

@fathom said:
A coin dealer should not sell that coin. It's a giveaway or melt.

It's a good lesson.

So coin dealers shouldn’t sell bullion coins for any premiums, either?

rec78 · August 7, 2021 2:11PM

@comma said:

@291fifth said:

@comma said:

@291fifth said:

@comma said:

@291fifth said:
I hope it was really cheap. Even if real, which I suspect it is, it is little more than a melt coin. I personally would not have purchased it.

I paid about 2.5x melt. I thought that was a good deal but I guess I don't really know the market. I was honestly looking for one with a hole and in rough condition so I didn't feel bad carrying or wearing it

My opinion: 2 1/2 times melt is way too high for that piece. It is a cull's cull. I'd return it for a refund if you can.

I've never seen a cull seated dollar sell for less than $75. Where do they sell so low?
Honestly more concerned if it's real or not than what I paid. I personally feel like I got a good deal if it's real

It is not just a matter of price. The coin is just plain awful. Holed, harshly cleaned, severe rim damage.

You mentioned the price being too high, that's why I was referring to price. This is the kind of seated dollar I want, holed and damaged. I personally have not been able to ever find one for less than what I paid. But if anybody has any seated culls for sale for near melt please let me know!

@comma said:

@291fifth said:

@comma said:

@291fifth said:

@comma said:

@291fifth said:
I hope it was really cheap. Even if real, which I suspect it is, it is little more than a melt coin. I personally would not have purchased it.

I paid about 2.5x melt. I thought that was a good deal but I guess I don't really know the market. I was honestly looking for one with a hole and in rough condition so I didn't feel bad carrying or wearing it

My opinion: 2 1/2 times melt is way too high for that piece. It is a cull's cull. I'd return it for a refund if you can.

I've never seen a cull seated dollar sell for less than $75. Where do they sell so low?
Honestly more concerned if it's real or not than what I paid. I personally feel like I got a good deal if it's real

It is not just a matter of price. The coin is just plain awful. Holed, harshly cleaned, severe rim damage.

You mentioned the price being too high, that's why I was referring to price. This is the kind of seated dollar I want, holed and damaged. I personally have not been able to ever find one for less than what I paid. But if anybody has any seated culls for sale for near melt please let me know!

If it is what you want at your price, why ask us? I think you paid too much. If you are patient you could find a less beat up coin for a lower cost. When you go to sell it, no dealer will give you more then a few dollars over melt, if that, for it. Go to a coin show and try to sell it and you will find out.

fathom · August 7, 2021 2:18PM

This is a lure to fish for uneducated buyers.

It's easy for a noob to figure what premium on a bullion or modern coin. Easier liquidity

Not so easy on a holed, damaged cleaned 150 year old dollar. Which the OP clearly expressed.

comma · August 7, 2021 2:23PM

@fathom said:
They are lures to fish for uneducated buyers.

It's easy for a noob to figure what premium on a bullion or modern coin. Easier liquidity

Not so easy on a holed, damaged cleaned 150 year old dollar. Which the OP clearly expressed.

I just don't really understand where you're seeing damaged Seated dollars sell for around melt. Cull/damaged Moargan and Peace dollars average for $35-40 on ebay and seated dollars are much scarcer.

Anyway, as stated a few times, really only concerned about if the coin is authentic or not. Never asked what people thought of the price...

fathom · August 7, 2021 2:28PM

@MFeld said:

@fathom said:
A coin dealer should not sell that coin. It's a giveaway or melt.

It's a good lesson.

So coin dealers shouldn’t sell bullion coins for any premiums, either?

@comma said:

@fathom said:
They are lures to fish for uneducated buyers.

It's easy for a noob to figure what premium on a bullion or modern coin. Easier liquidity

Not so easy on a holed, damaged cleaned 150 year old dollar. Which the OP clearly expressed.

I just don't really understand where you're seeing damaged Seated dollars sell for around melt. Cull/damaged Moargan and Peace dollars average for $35-40 on ebay and seated dollars are much scarcer.

Anyway, as stated a few times, really only concerned about if the coin is authentic or not. Never asked what people thought of the price...

OK if your OK with it then that is all that matters. I am just concerned that a new collector would be eventually discouraged with having that coin not knowing what else is out there at a reasonable cost.

al410 · August 7, 2021 2:39PM

Not everything about coin collecting is just about money, His main concern seems to be is it authentic. To me it looks authentic but I am not as versed as many on here about seated dollars. I say if you like it then it was a good deal as you did not buy it to resell and personally for the price It seems you got exactly what your looking for. Congrats!
Al

clarkbar04 · August 7, 2021 2:44PM

Looks real to me.
edit I’m not so sure now.

comma · August 7, 2021 3:06PM

Are there any tricks or things to look for to authenticate real silver dollars?

cheezhed · August 7, 2021 3:26PM

First thing is to weigh it.

coinbuf · August 7, 2021 3:44PM

I'm not sure that for your stated purpose that the authenticity is really all that important. You were looking for a holed damaged pocket piece and you found one at a price that you were willing to pay. The authenticity would only be an issue if you want to sell it as a numismatic item, as it is a cull and will most likely resell for around silver spot that is all moot really.

Enjoy carrying your new pocket piece as that is why you bought it.

MsMorrisine · August 7, 2021 3:49PM

I think anyone here would want a genuine pocket piece piece

comma · August 7, 2021 4:23PM

@coinbuf said:
I'm not sure that for your stated purpose that the authenticity is really all that important. You were looking for a holed damaged pocket piece and you found one at a price that you were willing to pay. The authenticity would only be an issue if you want to sell it as a numismatic item, as it is a cull and will most likely resell for around silver spot that is all moot really.

Enjoy carrying your new pocket piece as that is why you bought it.

Really don’t know how me wanting a pocket piece means it doesn’t matter if it’s authentic. It’s very important that it’s authentic. That’s literally what my original question was…

comma · August 7, 2021 4:23PM

@MsMorrisine said:
I think anyone here would want a genuine pocket piece piece

That’s what I thought too! Confused by some of these comments. Just wanted to know if this thing was authentic

Walkerfan · August 7, 2021 4:44PM

It would make a nice necklace!!

Mr_Spud · August 7, 2021 5:21PM

It would make a nice keychain

comma · August 7, 2021 5:22PM

@Mr_Spud said:
It would make a nice keychain

That was my original plan!
Still not sure if I should return it if there’s a chance it’s fake

coinbuf · August 7, 2021 5:30PM

@comma said:

@coinbuf said:
I'm not sure that for your stated purpose that the authenticity is really all that important. You were looking for a holed damaged pocket piece and you found one at a price that you were willing to pay. The authenticity would only be an issue if you want to sell it as a numismatic item, as it is a cull and will most likely resell for around silver spot that is all moot really.

Enjoy carrying your new pocket piece as that is why you bought it.

Really don’t know how me wanting a pocket piece means it doesn’t matter if it’s authentic. It’s very important that it’s authentic. That’s literally what my original question was…

Why, you cannot tell so what is your concern? Are you afraid that everyone at the golf course or the bowling alley is going to know the difference and talk behind your back? Given the amount of damage and condition of the coin I don't think anyone can give a 100% yes or no for your question. For something that damaged and of so little value it just would not matter to me for your purpose, but if it matters that much to you maybe you should return it and buy one from a source you trust.

If your really that concerned about the authenticity then why did you buy it from a source that you obviously do not trust in the first place?

MedalCollector · August 7, 2021 5:31PM

Definitely worth multiples of melt. In casually browsing seated dollars, I don’t think I’ve seen any genuine seated dollar sell for less than $75 recently, even the most abused examples.

The granularity on the obverse would normally indicate counterfeit, but it actually is probably just damage. Since the surfaces are harshly polished, you can’t really get many clues from the luster, but the details and date appear accurate. I’m leaning toward genuine. Maybe take it out of the 2x2 and do a ring test to see if it sound’s accurate.

clarkbar04 · August 7, 2021 5:34PM

There’s a porous looking area under the date which looks like it’s cast from a sand mold. Also it’s hard to tell from the pics but the 2nd 1 in the date looks off.

Aercus · August 7, 2021 5:39PM

Looks genuine to me. The coin is beat up but I see no obvious marks of a counterfeit. Please do know that it isn't easy to tell with the coin in this condition.

I wouldn't worry too much about the price. I haven't seen a seated dollar in any condition go for anywhere near melt. 100 bucks is often the minimum, even for damaged examples.

comma · August 7, 2021 5:42PM

@coinbuf said:

@comma said:

@coinbuf said:
I'm not sure that for your stated purpose that the authenticity is really all that important. You were looking for a holed damaged pocket piece and you found one at a price that you were willing to pay. The authenticity would only be an issue if you want to sell it as a numismatic item, as it is a cull and will most likely resell for around silver spot that is all moot really.

Enjoy carrying your new pocket piece as that is why you bought it.

Really don’t know how me wanting a pocket piece means it doesn’t matter if it’s authentic. It’s very important that it’s authentic. That’s literally what my original question was…

Why, you cannot tell so what is your concern? Are you afraid that everyone at the golf course or the bowling alley is going to know the difference and talk behind your back? For something that damaged and of so little value it just would not matter to me. Now if you had paid a significant amount of money then I would understand your concern, but for the price of a couple of happy meals I just don't see the issue.

If your really that concerned about the authenticity then why did you buy it from a source that you obviously do not trust in the first place?

Well I paid for a genuine coin so that’s what I want to make sure I got. I just feel like anybody here would feel the same, regardless of the value, so I’m confused.

I like well worn, holed, counterstamped etc coins and it’s hard to buy those from a “trusted” source. An eBay store with good feedback is unfortunately the best I can do.

comma · August 7, 2021 5:42PM

@clarkbar04 said:
There’s a porous looking area under the date which looks like it’s cast from a sand mold. Also it’s hard to tell from the pics but the 2nd 1 in the date looks off.

With the naked eye that porous looking area appears to be where the ridges of the edge were squished with damage (possibly from a plow) but I’ll try to get some more detailed photos tomorrow. What looks off with the second 1?

MsMorrisine · August 7, 2021 5:43PM

Take it out of the cardboard

comma · August 7, 2021 5:47PM

Thanks for all the input guys. I’ll take it out of the cardboard tomorrow and try to get some macro shots of each side

Walkerguy21D · August 7, 2021 6:37PM

I was originally going to warn that removing it from the holder may mean that you can’t return it….but that piece is so unique there’s no way the seller could say the coin was switched……

dcarr · August 7, 2021 11:13PM

There are some strange posts in this tread.

The coin is holed, damaged, polished, whizzed, etc. But it is genuine.
Even in that severely degraded state, I would think it is worth at least $50, and probably somewhat more than that.

Wahoo554 · August 7, 2021 11:58PM

I would not hesitate to buy any seated dollar at melt, no matter how ugly. I’ve never seen one that cheap and think the market recognizes that even the most beat up ones are worth more than bullion. It seems perfectly easy to understand the importance to the OP that the coin is genuine. He wants a genuine historic artifact that he can handle without caring if it gets further damage. He didn’t buy the coin for its beauty. It’s much cooler to handle a beat up 150 year old coin than it is to handle a modern counterfeit. Seems like a perfectly good reason to me.

shish · August 8, 2021 3:08AM

I can’t tell if it’s real but she's had a rough life. Save up and buy an example with with a bit less damage.

davewesen · August 8, 2021 3:26AM

I do not like the denticles and edge. If you already have it, get it out of the 2x2 and check reeding and get a weight.

If you like damaged coins, does it matter if it is fake ? (as long as it is silver - it should not stick to magnet)

MFeld · August 8, 2021 3:30AM

@shish said:
Appears to be real but she's had a rough life. Save up and buy an example with with a bit less damage.

Why? it seems that he bought what he was looking for.

ricko · August 8, 2021 3:47AM

Just have a jeweler check that it is real silver....If so, you got what you want...Looks authentic, but severely damaged. Cheers, RickO

DelawareDoons · August 8, 2021 4:42AM

LOL at people saying seated dollars will go for melt. C'mon guys. You can't touch even the most shitwrecked seated dollars for $50 or so unless you're lucky.

MFeld · August 8, 2021 5:14AM

@DelawareDoons said:
LOL at people saying seated dollars will go for melt. C'mon guys. You can't touch even the most shitwrecked seated dollars for $50 or so unless you're lucky.

Often, if someone dislikes or is disinterested in a coin (or other type of object), they have a hard time understanding why someone else might want it. As a result, they’re probably likely to undervalue it. Likewise, if someone loves a coin, they might not be able to fathom why others don’t feel the same way and they’re apt to overvalue it. My guess is that each of us is probably guilty on both counts, from time to time. But that’s OK.

Inspired70 · August 8, 2021 6:07AM

@clarkbar04 said:
There’s a porous looking area under the date which looks like it’s cast from a sand mold. Also it’s hard to tell from the pics but the 2nd 1 in the date looks off.

This.....

Is this Seated Dollar real or fake?

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