@blitzdude said:
CACS is like cabbage patch beanie babies. Another few years and it will be completely irrelevant. By far the dumbest thing I've seen in my multiple decades of coin collecting. RGDS!
OK, I see @blitzdude taking his lumps here but isn't there a layer of truth in the idea CAC is unnecessary? If your coin comes back MS64 and you genuinely feel it's grade is incorrect and should be MS65, send it back for regrade or cross-over to another TPG. If it comes back as MS64 I would assume it would not have stickered anyway...
I understand CAC is widely recognized and will probably not be going any place any time soon. Their stickers ARE now pretty well ingrained into the hobby.
That being said, I kind of feel all the emphasis on stickers muddies the real pricing on graded coins. Would one really want an MS64 CAC coin over one that gets regraded at MS65 if it genuinely deserves the higher grade?
Mark
I get what you are saying. CAC is not necessary. I am still trying to identify who is being forced to use CAC. The standard response is that you won’t get as strong a price if a coin is not stickered. But, then, getting the best price when selling isn’t required (read necessary), just wise.
What mystifies me is just why CAC lives torturously rent free 24/7/365 in the minds of those who think it worthless? I mean, I laugh every time some place tries to sell me an extended warranty on something, as I feel those offers are worthless money grabs, but I don’t ruminate on the topic to no end. Especially to the point of damaging my enjoyment of a favored hobby.
A seller who wants to receive top dollar for many classes of coins is indeed forced to use CAC. Sellers who don't fall into that category are the exception. So I don't see a lot of merit in your argument.
The extended warranty analogy is also misplaced, as the existence of same is actually beneficial to those who routinely decline them, because they have the effect of covering some of a store's overhead and keeping baseline prices lower.
As to "living rent free" in people's heads, I can assure you that I never think about CAC except when it gets brought up on the forum. I suspect that's true for a lot of people. And for the record, I don't think CAC is worthless, although I was happier overall as a collector before its existence.
The extended warranty analogy fits perfectly. You admit it yourself. The existence of a CAC sticker gives buyer and seller benefit by bringing strong buy money and reducing buyer ‘overhead’ lost buying coins that were less strong for the grade. If the sticker makes me more when I sell have I not benefited at the expense of all those selling non stickered coins of the same type for less? I have. That extra money up for grabs goes to me, no?
Because you used the term ‘also’ it is clear that you didn’t read my post carefully about CAC being necessary. There is no dispute that having CAC increases what you might get out of a coin. It is not necessary OR required for a seller to have a coin graded, or to use PCGS or NGC as opposed to ANACS or ICG to have the coins graded, or to sell them through a well known auction house like HA or Legend, or Stacks as opposed to consigning them to Jimmy Joe Bob to sell at his stall at the local flea market. And it is not necessary to have a CAC sticker. Necessary and advisable are two different things.
These are not requirements or necessities. These are intelligent choices to maximize potential sale prices. Choose incorrectly at any juncture and you may cost yourself money. You state that CAC isn’t living rent free in your head. Great. Maybe you can help blitzdude.
No, the extended warranty analogy is exactly wrong. I benefit from the fact that other people buy extended warranties while I ignore it. I don't benefit from CAC if I ignore it. I lose money by doing so.
If you want to achieve top dollar in today's US coin marketplace, you (or an agent) will have to submit to CAC prior to sale. That is a fact that I think we can agree on. So while ignoring CAC is an option, one pays a price for doing so. The best venue in which to sell a coin is orthogonal to whether it has a sticker.
And finally, I don't really care if blitzdude has a CAC obsession or not. I find his comments humorous in general. Mainly because he seems to be living rent free inside the CAC lovers' heads. (See what I did there?) LOL!!!
@jkrk said:
Just curious ......Do many collectors still hold coins that have never been to a grading service much less CAC?
Oh yes, the vast, vast majority. I'd say that most collectors have never heard of TPGs and are happy with their proof sets (either special occasions or annual) or statehood quarters in other display cases. WAG half of coin collectors have never paid above face for an item in their collections.
@blitzdude said:
CACS is like cabbage patch beanie babies. Another few years and it will be completely irrelevant. By far the dumbest thing I've seen in my multiple decades of coin collecting. RGDS!
OK, I see @blitzdude taking his lumps here but isn't there a layer of truth in the idea CAC is unnecessary? If your coin comes back MS64 and you genuinely feel it's grade is incorrect and should be MS65, send it back for regrade or cross-over to another TPG. If it comes back as MS64 I would assume it would not have stickered anyway...
I understand CAC is widely recognized and will probably not be going any place any time soon. Their stickers ARE now pretty well ingrained into the hobby.
That being said, I kind of feel all the emphasis on stickers muddies the real pricing on graded coins. Would one really want an MS64 CAC coin over one that gets regraded at MS65 if it genuinely deserves the higher grade?
Mark
I get what you are saying. CAC is not necessary. I am still trying to identify who is being forced to use CAC. The standard response is that you won’t get as strong a price if a coin is not stickered. But, then, getting the best price when selling isn’t required (read necessary), just wise.
What mystifies me is just why CAC lives torturously rent free 24/7/365 in the minds of those who think it worthless? I mean, I laugh every time some place tries to sell me an extended warranty on something, as I feel those offers are worthless money grabs, but I don’t ruminate on the topic to no end. Especially to the point of damaging my enjoyment of a favored hobby.
A seller who wants to receive top dollar for many classes of coins is indeed forced to use CAC. Sellers who don't fall into that category are the exception. So I don't see a lot of merit in your argument.
The extended warranty analogy is also misplaced, as the existence of same is actually beneficial to those who routinely decline them, because they have the effect of covering some of a store's overhead and keeping baseline prices lower.
As to "living rent free" in people's heads, I can assure you that I never think about CAC except when it gets brought up on the forum. I suspect that's true for a lot of people. And for the record, I don't think CAC is worthless, although I was happier overall as a collector before its existence.
The extended warranty analogy fits perfectly. You admit it yourself. The existence of a CAC sticker gives buyer and seller benefit by bringing strong buy money and reducing buyer ‘overhead’ lost buying coins that were less strong for the grade. If the sticker makes me more when I sell have I not benefited at the expense of all those selling non stickered coins of the same type for less? I have. That extra money up for grabs goes to me, no?
Because you used the term ‘also’ it is clear that you didn’t read my post carefully about CAC being necessary. There is no dispute that having CAC increases what you might get out of a coin. It is not necessary OR required for a seller to have a coin graded, or to use PCGS or NGC as opposed to ANACS or ICG to have the coins graded, or to sell them through a well known auction house like HA or Legend, or Stacks as opposed to consigning them to Jimmy Joe Bob to sell at his stall at the local flea market. And it is not necessary to have a CAC sticker. Necessary and advisable are two different things.
These are not requirements or necessities. These are intelligent choices to maximize potential sale prices. Choose incorrectly at any juncture and you may cost yourself money. You state that CAC isn’t living rent free in your head. Great. Maybe you can help blitzdude.
No, the extended warranty analogy is exactly wrong. I benefit from the fact that other people buy extended warranties while I ignore it. I don't benefit from CAC if I ignore it. I lose money by doing so.
If you want to achieve top dollar in today's US coin marketplace, you (or an agent) will have to submit to CAC prior to sale. That is a fact that I think we can agree on. So while ignoring CAC is an option, one pays a price for doing so. The best venue in which to sell a coin is orthogonal to whether it has a sticker.
And finally, I don't really care if blitzdude has a CAC obsession or not. I find his comments humorous in general. Mainly because he seems to be living rent free inside the CAC lovers' heads. (See what I did there?) LOL!!!
Comments
No, the extended warranty analogy is exactly wrong. I benefit from the fact that other people buy extended warranties while I ignore it. I don't benefit from CAC if I ignore it. I lose money by doing so.
If you want to achieve top dollar in today's US coin marketplace, you (or an agent) will have to submit to CAC prior to sale. That is a fact that I think we can agree on. So while ignoring CAC is an option, one pays a price for doing so. The best venue in which to sell a coin is orthogonal to whether it has a sticker.
And finally, I don't really care if blitzdude has a CAC obsession or not. I find his comments humorous in general. Mainly because he seems to be living rent free inside the CAC lovers' heads. (See what I did there?) LOL!!!
Oh yes, the vast, vast majority. I'd say that most collectors have never heard of TPGs and are happy with their proof sets (either special occasions or annual) or statehood quarters in other display cases. WAG half of coin collectors have never paid above face for an item in their collections.
I award a gold bean to @CoinJunkie for using ‘orthogonal’ in a sentence. 🥸
I will simply state I disagree!