Impact of Sotheby's on 1933 double eagle
Gazes
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I think almost everyone thinks that the record setting price of the 1933 double eagle was a success. It got me thinking about whether the result would have been the same if it had been consigned to one of the traditional coin auction houses? In a thread it was rumored the coin was purchased by a non collector. If true, would the winning bidder have bought the coin if it had been sold by a "coin" auction house? And if we think Sotheby's added value to this coin should others who own coins valued in the millions follow suit?
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He/she would have found out about it in any auction assuming he/she had an interest in such a rarity. I don't think the place mattered, only the availability/opportunity to own one of the greatest American coins known.
Lots of money has been made these days, so people can be spending their stupid money winnings and buy anything under these highly inflationary times. Lets see what happens when she/he sells it assuming they are not a collector and tires of it quicker than a true collector. Story isn't over by any means yet.
I don’t know. But I do believe that none of the regular coin auction houses would have felt the need to backstop the coin with an irrevocable bid costing $600k+ in this market. They all would have had better feel for the coin’s market value than Sotheby’s did. With that said, if the winning bidder got interested in the coin as a result of Sotheby’s approaching him to backstop it, it may have worked out well for all involved. Legend had a bidder in the low teens, heritage had bidders at $14M and $15M all in. If the underbidder would have won the coin at $15.5M or $16M then the backstopper being interested raised the price realized by several million.
We don't think of Sotheby's as numismatic auctioneers and they don't compete with Heritage much on coins. But on other art and antiques, Heritage has become competitive with Sotheby's and Christie's. Sotheby's has customers that Heritage doesn't, but Heritage is broadening their customer base.
How do you define a “true collector”? There are a number of well known collectors whom most would say are “true collectors”, but who have sold numerous coins after a rather brief time.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Funny, I could own a single coin and be quite happy with my “collection” but the 1933 Saint isn’t on the list.
Please don’t leave me hanging😉 - what coins would be candidates for such a list?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Well, there are tons! Those that come to mind immediately include:
I could probably think of many others. The whole thing with the government's actions surrounding the '33 Saint make it smell bad in my book.
Well, if you get a 64-D Peace dollar, you BETTER keep it quiet.
I would include an extra $1 in my tax return (for monetization purposes). That should do it, right?
It worked once!
Ugh...the "true collector" rears its ugly head.
I think the venue did have an effect on the price. Certainly all coin people were aware of the auction.... However, if not on Sotheby's, perhaps non-coin people would not have been aware of the sale. And if indeed, as speculated, a non-coin collector purchased it, that would lend some possible credence to my theory. Cheers, RickO
The large coin auction houses have plenty of their own quirks. Think of how some of Pogue’s ultra rarities were handled (e.g. original passed auction of Child’s 1804 dollar, fire sale COVID sale of the 1854-S $2.50, etc.).
I believe we have many so-called "true collectors" right here on the forum. I would list the names but all one would have to do to save time is look at the list of those online and one could get a great idea.
I have wondered this too. I suspect there is a lot more that goes on behind the scenes courting buyers and sellers in the high-end art market. Though there is the occasional flyer, coin prices are pretty well established due to thousands of "comparable" sales. Being unique items, high-end art probably has more wiggle room. Sothebys and Christies must be the best in the world at that game, and maybe they were able to use their wiles to attract someone who would not have bid at Heritage or Stacks.
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There are many marvelous collectors here. But people toss around the phrase "true collector" to denigrate those who do things that the poster dislikes and are, therefore, not true collectors.
So allow me to define a so-called true collector in my own words. Most on this forum are what I call true collectors.
The few that aren't are not true collectors, and there won't nothin wrong with that either, just another motivation, that is all. Nobody is better than anybody else.Where there are differences , they amount to the motivation ie those who collect and those who flip ie who don't collect. Both are fine in my book. I personally don't flip because I am enamored with everything I am gunning for, when the enjoyment is over or when I need funds for an important matter I have been known to sell.
The coin sold for what it sold for. It makes no difference if it sold to a collector , or a speculator, or an investor at the end of the day. It will sell again, by auction or by private treaty, in the future. Maybe for more or maybe for less. It is really not important that a "collector" bought it. Let alone a "true collector". Question is: Are there coins that are worth more than what a collector might pay?
How much did it sell for $22 million dollars?