Anyone have dealings with.... rare coins?
gtstang
Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭✭✭
I bought and paid for a coin he had listed on his site which was attributed incorrectly which I am fine with. Based on what I paid the coin was worth about $50 to $75 more.
I got a "your coin is shipping notice " and two minutes later I got another message saying I got a refund and a message saying he is required by his contract with pcgs to return the coin to them. Never heard of that but if true I asked him to get it reattributed and honor his listed price.
Of course I have heard nothing more from him.
As a dealer, in my opinion, you should still honor your deals especially when full disclosure is noted and the customer is good with it.
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That stinks. I would be upset too.
I bought a coin from him earlier this year and had no problem with the sale or the coin.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I bought this Half Dime from him in the past month and had no problems.
It was not clear, did you point out to the seller the coin was incorrectly attributed?
Successful BST Transactions: erwindoc, VTchaser, moursund, robkool, RelicKING, Herb_T, Meltdown, ElmerFusterpuck, airplanenut
Never an issue with Bob Paul
I did not and do not think it was necessary. It was listed for sale, I purchased it and in the end was told he is required to return to pcgs per his contract with pcgs.
And no follow up answer to my question about still wanting the coin.
Some dealers just can’t live with you cherry-picking them. If he is a good dealer he will give it to you. Time will tell you will see. I told a story a long time ago about a dealer that I ask if I show you something will you honor the price on the flip he said yes and he had 3 of them they where 1914/3 Buffalo nickels. He took them from me looked at them open the cherry picker looked back at me put them on the back table and said they are not for sale. So that is when I started picking dealer and not saying anything about what they have or what I found they should know what they are selling. I have a lot of good dealer friends but I have zipped lips from now on. Good luck getting it back at the price you paid don’t say anything till you have the coin in hand Rule #1.
Hoard the keys.
Sounds like a legit beef! What contract stipulation would require a coin to be sent back - doesn't make sense to me; like pcgs would be monitoring the sale of this coin and then claim some contract wrongdoing?
Successful BST Transactions: erwindoc, VTchaser, moursund, robkool, RelicKING, Herb_T, Meltdown, ElmerFusterpuck, airplanenut
I imagine that grading companies prefer to have misattributed coins returned to them so that they can make the appropriate corrections. From time to time, auction companies discover or are informed of such errors and send the coins to the grading companies for that purpose.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thanks for the clarification, Mark! My simple point was that the seller may have been better off honoring the sale, as it would be easy to claim he was unaware of the misattribution - which he apparently was until examining the coin after it was purchased (my interpretation of the course of events, which could be incorrect).
Successful BST Transactions: erwindoc, VTchaser, moursund, robkool, RelicKING, Herb_T, Meltdown, ElmerFusterpuck, airplanenut
I had a similar problem recently with a big dealer. Paid for the coin , had a receipt and tracking. Only for a tip off from Andy an a forum post.
I suggest calling the ANA. I definitely wasn’t satisfied with the PNG. It was rather sickening.
Donna the executive assistant was absolutely wonderful at the ANA. I took a different avenue and will post something after there’s a decision and I get my coin I paid for.
The PCGS dealer contract probably does require dealers to send mechanical errors back for reholdering. First, because some mechanical errors could enable fraudulent sales, and second, because they make PCGS and the entire industry look bad. For an example, consider a normal 1955 cent accidentally slabbed as a Doubled Die.
As for the OP, what if, for example, the coin was a 1921 Peace Dollar holdered as a Morgan Dollar, and the mistake was not caught before the coin was posted online? Yes, the dealer may have been correct to say that he's required to return the coin to PCGS. But it might have been better just to say that it was an honest employee error, and that he's not obligated to sell the coin, which would be true. Same principle as when a price is accidentally missing a zero or two.
Anyway, enough guessing at what really happened. What was the coin???
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
And how long ago did this occur?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This is one of those threads that should be removed.
Call the ANA
This is the PNG’s code of Ethics that didn’t apply to my case.
“ no dealer should lose that much” was there excuse. But know they opened the case back up.
BTW The coin was bought at there advertised price.
Paid for the coin
Had a receipt from the dealer
Credit card was billed by the dealer.
Tracking was provided by the dealer.
Tracking was Canceled by the dealer.
But no code of ethics was broken yeah ok
I would call Bob and speak with him again. If it doesn’t go anywhere call the ANA
It’s just getting juice.😉
Hoard the keys.
I dont know about some of the above statements, but a dealer friend of mine mistakenly bought a misatrributed double die lincoln as the real deal, mis attributed on the holder as the real one, not the minor variety it is, he called to see about sending it back for correction, and they said he would have to pay for the correction attribution, and (he said) they acted like they could care less if he sent it back .
@type2 you can LOL all you want but this discussion could have taken place without any names involved and then it wouldn't be rushing a rule violation.
Rule #2 , folks.
I named the website I purchased the coin from and included all facts of the transaction details.
Pickwickjr got robbed. Still don't know how that coin made it into an NGC holder and past a dealer without being attributed.
gtstang got picked.
Lame excuse from dealer.
For $50 I would give him a pass.
If their is one coin, there is a second coin waiting to be picked.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
I don't want to argue, but there was no need to name the website to solicit opinions. And the facts are based on your uncorroborated testimony. These threads are just asking for trouble if the other party comes in with a different version of events.
I will never buy from the dealer that screwed Pickwick. And they are not a small dealer. Could have easily done the right thing.
Cannot wait for that story to come out.
As to OPs question, I have sold some stuff to this dealer with no problem in the past. I'd call him and try to have a discussion about it. If he's required to send it back, he should be willing to honor the deal after he gets it fixed. If not, then I'd contact the ANA.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
If he left out the name every one would ask for it anyway. You bet if I did this my name would be put out there. This is why when dealing with any one it will be known if you do wrong you better make it right. I have lost money many times here to do the right thing and not $50 or $75 bucks. I pre bought coins for way over the market price just to see them drop but kept the price I agreed on. I just don’t get how some dealers want to win all the time and think this is okay to do if it’s true. Hopefully he does come on so we know if he is on the up,up, I’d like to know who are the good dealers and who isn’t.
Hoard the keys.
I did ask him to still honor his price if he had to send it back through email. He never responded to my inquiry.
For the poster that said threads like this should never be a thing, please tell me why?
If you can post about sellers and positive transactions, why would deals that that did not go well not be allowed?
Call him on the phone and talk to him. Let us know what he says.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
PCGS FORUM RULE #2
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.
It's not rocket science folks. PCGS provides this free forum. If people make posts that damage the reputation of an individual or company, then they might well come after PCGS for allowing the defamation.
Just recently we had a forum member BANNED for starting multiple threads complaining about a deal gone bad from another forum member.
A year or so ago, we had someone start a thread complaining about a deal gone bad only to have the other party show up and refute the original story.
A positive comment will not yield anything actionable. A negative comment, whether true, false or somewhere in between, could lead to something actionable.
Uncorroborated accusations should simply never be allowed on this forum and are a VIOLATION OF RULE #2.
Did I mention, there's a forum rule against it?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1009079/pcgs-forum-rules-and-guidelines-updated-4-19-2021#latest
I wonder what happens if I call him and tell him his ethics are being impugned on this forum...
I bought a coin from Bob Paul several months ago and I made a mistake when I typed my shipping info in a rush. I sent several emails right after seeking to correct the mistake and followed up with a voicemail. The next morning I got a call from Bob letting me know that he had just shipped the coin and just listened to my vm. He had not seen my emails. The takeaway is that he may not check email very often, so I would suggest calling.
Hey tell us more
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Redacted.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
jmlanzaf hasn’t limited his comments just to dealers. And he didn’t post the rules, which appear to prohibit threads of this nature.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I see nothing in my post that violate any rules of the forum. Nothing libelous, accusatory, or attacking.
My opinion is when you set a price, someone makes a purchase and completes payment online, it is like a digital handshake of a completed deal.
If the seller offers a return policy then let the buyer decide if they want that option to return.
If you've been paying attention, I also object when dealers start threads bashing customers. This isn't the place for it.
Enough bunk house lawyering…call him
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I'm not trying to get anyone banned or even warned. I have not reported this thread to Heather. I was just trying to get the OP to remove the name... for his own good.
You don't have to be a lawyer to read the forum rules and obey them.
flagged
The call him was directed at the OP JM
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
You are right probably safer to leave name out of thread and then PM requesters if interested in the seller
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Shame on you for jumping to a conclusion when only hearing one side of a story.
I've known Bobby Paul for 40 years and he's "straight up". Doesn't mean he may not have made a mistake.
Ask any CAC collector-member who's asked JA for advice. Ask any Forum member who knows a national dealer (like me) and you will get a free favor. I'm certainly open to PMs. Everyone has a phone nowadays.
And, to the OP and others: any time you've got a complaint with a dealer, start off by telling him about the coin you visualized before you trash anything else about the transaction (including your "in-hand" opinions).
So I edited the title and I've stated my opinion on what responsibilities a dealer should have to clients on sales.
Here is a screenshot of communication for clarity to those that questioned the facts of the sale situation.
So if he has to return it, why can’t he still complete the transaction when the coin returns? Why not give the buyer the chance to choose to keep the coin or “make it right on the next one”?
So if I personally vouched for him, would you think there was a possibility of good will on his side?
See @MrEureka's post above.
I'm making it specific and personal (albeit rhetorical). Would you trust me? Ask yourself why I'm here. Not to promote or protect dealers, but to help collectors raise their games. FWIW, I'd ship Mr. Paul a $250K coin on approval. If you want to compare local or even regional piss-ants with high-end dealers, you really should get out more.
I'm quite sure he is a good guy and the coin in question is $300 plus coin. Not going to make you or break you and I would bet he would still have made profit from what he paid vs. my purchase price.
Sometimes folks should be made accountable and maybe it will make them better for it.
I mean, I did a $25k deal with BP on the word of a friend and walked away happy, so I trust him, and I'm sure there's something weird going on here. It's not a quarter million dollars, but it also isn't chump change to me.
Still has nothing to do with my commentary about jm taking BP's side without hearing the full story. I think OP has pretty conclusively proven a deal has been walked back, it's just a question as to if the reasoning why it was walked back stands up to muster or not. My commentary was more targeted at jm's track record of taking the dealers side by default rather than considering both sides before backing a horse, and I apologize if it came off as an attack on BP, as it certainly wasn't meant that way.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Neither $250K or $25K is chump change to me.
OP has proved he has a problem. How severe is yet to be seen.
@jmlanzaf is a pain is the ass sometimes. I can be too.
Like now.
To summarize: After reading @MrEureka's post above delineating the PCGS policy on misattribution all PCGS dealers are contractually required to honor, you went totally off topic.
jm doesn't take the dealers side by default. He often stands up for buyers who get named in "block this bidder" posts.
Just sayin'.
I missed that particular post, mea culpa.
I still think the dealer in question should have probably reached out first, explained the situation, and offered to honor the price after the mechanical error was corrected, rather than just outright refunding him and cancelling the sale.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Sorry, I've decided to shut up rather than enable a thread I flagged as abusive.
I did NOT take anyone's side. I simply suggested that this entire discussion could take place without names involved. Show me one quote of mine that indicated that I did not believe the OP or that the dealer was in the right...I'll wait.
If you'd like, I'll also find links to all the eBay threads where I suggested NOT posting names and telling people to block the BUYERS for the exact same reasons I've given here.
At least be accurate in your criticism of me. So far you have not.