@BigA said:
I kinda like managed payments now....cash sent right to my checking account (new account opened just for this) ...but....my shipping label fees are still being paid through PayPal
Any info on how to change it so everything is billed by Ebay?
IMO, the managed payment system is going to bite everyone in the ass in the end. Don't think for one second that ebay does ANYTHING to benefit ANYONE but themselves.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
@Soldi said:
You guys me to tell me that a coin selling for say $13000. costs the "bigger dealers" 19.5 % to Ebay? That seems huge to me.
This is NOT the case.
Thanks for clearing that up for me
The numbers are all in earlier posts. I didn't know that you wanted me to go through them all again.
There are only TWO possible coin rates. [There is a separate, cheaper, bullion rate] You either pay 8.5% +30 cents if you have a store or 12.35% + 30 cents if you don't have a store. Period. That rate applies to the first $4000 of the sale for the store or the first $7500 if you don't have a store. On a $13,000 coin, you would have to be an idiot to not have a store, so let's stick to that rate.
Now, you could CHOOSE to pay for promotion or listing enhancements or donate proceeds to charity and you can probably make your total costs over 100% of the sale price. But the ONLY mandatory charge is the 8.5% + 30 cents
On a $2 item, 8.5% + 30 cents is 47 cents so then your total fees are 23.5%. But for a $13,000 coin the fees are 8.5%+30cents on the first $4000 of the sale and 2.35% of the $9000. That makes the total eBay fees charged on the $13,000 coin equal to $551.80 which is 4.2%
So, big or little dealer, your cost to sell a $13,000 coin is 4.2%. If you'd like to add the store fees to that, add another $30 which is $581.80 which is 4.5%
If you insist on not having a store, you would pay 12.35%+30 cents on the first $7000 and 7% on the amount over $7000. That makes the non-store costs = $1284.80 which is 9.88%
In the words of the legendary @MasonG it's not rocket surgery or (@Mfeld) brain science.
All the fees are laid out, by category here (no store):
@Samuel8 said:
I think eBay should let seller to choose either bank or Paypal.
Paypal will lose a lot of business which is bad for my pypl stock.
Paypal only loses business if buyers choose to not use it to pay. The only change is that buyers are not held hostage by eBay/ paypal and forced to use it.
Remember when people complained about paypal/ eBay holding them hostage? I do.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
Went very smoothly for me. No problem. Works magnificently.
Same thing here, pretty much. Aside from an initial hiccup when eBay had trouble confirming my bank account (possibly because it wasn't on their list), everything has worked fine.
@BigA said:
I kinda like managed payments now....cash sent right to my checking account (new account opened just for this) ...but....my shipping label fees are still being paid through PayPal
Any info on how to change it so everything is billed by Ebay?
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
You are wrong as the PayPal payment had the email contact this year up until I was forced to do harm to my business by eBay
Are you sure?
May 22, 2018:
May 23, 2018:
Note that the email address of the buyer was provided on May 22 and it was not provided on May 23. But hey- maybe you're special and you got that contact info longer than other people?
@BigA said:
I kinda like managed payments now....cash sent right to my checking account (new account opened just for this) ...but....my shipping label fees are still being paid through PayPal
Any info on how to change it so everything is billed by Ebay?
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
You are wrong as the PayPal payment had the email contact this year up until I was forced to do harm to my business by eBay
Are you sure?
May 22, 2018:
May 23, 2018:
Note that the email address of the buyer was provided on May 22 and it was not provided on May 23. But hey- maybe you're special and you got that contact info longer than other people?
Actually, I know what @ErrorsOnCoins on coins is talking about. I could directly email customers through PayPal. The email address wasn't visible, but if I replied to the payment verification it went to the customer directly.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
Actually, I know what @ErrorsOnCoins on coins is talking about. I could directly email customers through PayPal. The email address wasn't visible, but if I replied to the payment verification it went to the customer directly.
Ok- fair enough. I was understanding him to mean that PayPal provided the buyer's email address in the payment notice.
@jedm said:
I think that when you say: "But paid what? They just tell me that I will receive $92. 35 on a $110(includes S/H) sale."
You need to note that on a $110 sale there is probably about $8 in taxes and $3 in shipping that the 12.35% fee is figured from. So it may be more like $121 x .1235 = $14.94 then add the 30 cents which comes to $15.24 and now add the $3 for shipping that they're charging you and you have $18.24.... Does this make sense?
About $8 in taxes for what? Are they collecting sales tax from the seller instead of the buyer?
@jedm said:
I think that when you say: "But paid what? They just tell me that I will receive $92. 35 on a $110(includes S/H) sale."
You need to note that on a $110 sale there is probably about $8 in taxes and $3 in shipping that the 12.35% fee is figured from. So it may be more like $121 x .1235 = $14.94 then add the 30 cents which comes to $15.24 and now add the $3 for shipping that they're charging you and you have $18.24.... Does this make sense?
About $8 in taxes for what? Are they collecting sales tax from the seller instead of the buyer?
No. They collect sales tax from the buyer but they do provide an accounting to the seller of all fees including taxes, VAT, import duties, etc.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
and the loss of email contacts with buyers ....... not worth the percentage saved.
That contact was lost before managed payments was available to sellers in the coins category.
You are wrong as the PayPal payment had the email contact this year up until I was forced to do harm to my business by eBay
I think you mean right up until ebay stopped your doing harm to THEIR business.
THIS.
BUT long term, because I put all of my inventory on eBay and if I grow my outside of eBay business significantly, I would thus be putting more inventory on eBay making them more in the long run.
I must be in the minority , becuase I like it. I was skeptical at first, as I merely hate change.
But in all honesty, been easy and straight forward. I dont have to worry about remembering to transfer funds over from paypal during the appropriate times, it auto does it on tuesday, usually in bank wed.
I dont know about you, but prices realized on ebay are off the charts, lots better that I can get from the cheap as customers I have locally.
@jdimmick said:
I must be in the minority , becuase I like it. I was skeptical at first, as I merely hate change.
But in all honesty, been easy and straight forward. I dont have to worry about remembering to transfer funds over from paypal during the appropriate times, it auto does it on tuesday, usually in bank wed.
I dont know about you, but prices realized on ebay are off the charts, lots better that I can get from the cheap as customers I have locally.
I love it also.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@jedm said:
I think that when you say: "But paid what? They just tell me that I will receive $92. 35 on a $110(includes S/H) sale."
You need to note that on a $110 sale there is probably about $8 in taxes and $3 in shipping that the 12.35% fee is figured from. So it may be more like $121 x .1235 = $14.94 then add the 30 cents which comes to $15.24 and now add the $3 for shipping that they're charging you and you have $18.24.... Does this make sense?
About $8 in taxes for what? Are they collecting sales tax from the seller instead of the buyer?
No. They collect sales tax from the buyer but they do provide an accounting to the seller of all fees including taxes, VAT, import duties, etc.
Keep in mind that it remains to be seen if Ebay, as PP was doing, will include these items in the gross income reported on the end of the year 1099. Likely so since they are reporting them to you now as income with each sale. Would not hurt to have a record of these items so that you know your actual gross income from ebay sales and can prove the difference between the two gross incomes in the event of an IRS audit.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
for those who miss having paypal provide them the buyer's email address (they stopped doing this long ago) the managed payment purchase details (click on order number) provides you the buyer's phone number. Text away.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
@Lazybones said:
IMO, the managed payment system is going to bite everyone in the ass in the end. Don't think for one second that ebay does ANYTHING to benefit ANYONE but themselves.
So do you believe that eBay acts differently and has different motivations as compared to PayPal?
@Lazybones said:
IMO, the managed payment system is going to bite everyone in the ass in the end. Don't think for one second that ebay does ANYTHING to benefit ANYONE but themselves.
So do you believe that eBay acts differently and has different motivations as compared to PayPal?
You mean "always free" PayPal isn't a charity?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
So do you believe that eBay acts differently and has different motivations as compared to PayPal?
No. What I mean is that eBay will eventually take more and more and their requirements will become more onerous. Fees will continue to increase and you can only up charge your buyers so much before they bail.
I’m all for capitalism, but I’m tired of people continually dipping into my pockets.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
So do you believe that eBay acts differently and has different motivations as compared to PayPal?
No. What I mean is that eBay will eventually take more and more and their requirements will become more onerous. Fees will continue to increase and you can only up charge your buyers so much before they bail.
I’m all for capitalism, but I’m tired of people continually dipping into my pockets.
Actually, this works both ways. eBay can only up charge their customers (ME!) so much. Why are eBay fees not double what they currently are? Why are the managed payment fees not HIGHER than they were in the PayPal days? Why weren't PayPal fees double the 2.9%?
You are entitled to your paranoia. But it may well be nothing but misplaced paranoia.
At least for now, you might actually give eBay credit for saving you money that you were giving to PayPal.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
and the loss of email contacts with buyers ....... not worth the percentage saved.
That contact was lost before managed payments was available to sellers in the coins category.
You are wrong as the PayPal payment had the email contact this year up until I was forced to do harm to my business by eBay
I think you mean right up until ebay stopped your doing harm to THEIR business.
THIS.
BUT long term, because I put all of my inventory on eBay and if I grow my outside of eBay business significantly, I would thus be putting more inventory on eBay making them more in the long run.
You'll be very successful if you can somehow convince eBay of this.
I have no problem with managed payments. Haven’t had any issues.
As far as collecting email addresses from PayPal, I never really did it anyway. I put a business card in every package with my website and other contact info. I figure if people want to hear from me they’ll sign up for my email list or follow me on social media. Or just call. Im probably missing out on business but don’t like adding to the spam people already deal with.
@bigjpst said:
I have no problem with managed payments. Haven’t had any issues.
As far as collecting email addresses from PayPal, I never really did it anyway. I put a business card in every package with my website and other contact info. I figure if people want to hear from me they’ll sign up for my email list or follow me on social media. Or just call. Im probably missing out on business but don’t like adding to the spam people already deal with.
I do the same. I used to send them an email also with shipping notification and my contact info. But now I don't do that, just the note in the package.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
According to the managed payments system, my selling costs are up 6.1% points compared to the prior time period without the system. Note: that is percentage points, not percent. Which is closer to a 40% increase in costs.
@mach1ne said:
According to the managed payments system, my selling costs are up 6.1% points compared to the prior time period without the system. Note: that is percentage points, not percent. Which is closer to a 40% increase in costs.
This is a meaningless number without specifics. Ebay managed payments is cheaper than ebay/PayPal. Total costs can include things like postage, monthly subscriptions, import duties, sales tax.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Well, I have apparently been dodging bullets for quite a while, but eventually one found me. I just tried to list an item and was told that I must sign up for managed payments, and that all transactions must be through my bank account. I'm not at all interested in doing this, so after 23 years of selling on eBay, the party is over. Guess smalltime sellers like me were the last to fall.
So I know BST is good for many things, but what other auction sites are you all using now that eBay is defunct?
PM me for coin photography equipment, or visit my website:
@rmpsrpms said:
Well, I have apparently been dodging bullets for quite a while, but eventually one found me. I just tried to list an item and was told that I must sign up for managed payments, and that all transactions must be through my bank account. I'm not at all interested in doing this, so after 23 years of selling on eBay, the party is over. Guess smalltime sellers like me were the last to fall.
So I know BST is good for many things, but what other auction sites are you all using now that eBay is defunct?
Great Collections and DLRC for me.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
@rmpsrpms said:
Well, I have apparently been dodging bullets for quite a while, but eventually one found me. I just tried to list an item and was told that I must sign up for managed payments, and that all transactions must be through my bank account. I'm not at all interested in doing this, so after 23 years of selling on eBay, the party is over. Guess smalltime sellers like me were the last to fall.
So I know BST is good for many things, but what other auction sites are you all using now that eBay is defunct?
I still don't understand why people let PayPal connect to their bank account but are paranoid about eBay do the same thing.
Just get a second checking count at your current bank and connect to that. Keep no money in it. It's really not that big of a deal.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf
I still don't understand why people let PayPal connect to their bank account but are paranoid about eBay do the same thing.
Just get a second checking count at your current bank and connect to that. Keep no money in it. It's really not that big of a deal.
While I'm still less than satisfied with Ebay, things change beyond our control and I agree with jmlanzaf(this time), I didn't trust paypal so I got a separate account with very little funds kept in it for paypal and now use it for both paypal and ebay. Be sure NOT to get a guaranteed account overdraft protection on the new account.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@BigA said:
I kinda like managed payments now....cash sent right to my checking account (new account opened just for this) ...but....my shipping label fees are still being paid through PayPal
Any info on how to change it so everything is billed by Ebay?
toggle switch on the pay for shipping page. Once I switched it, it stayed switched.
@jmlanzaf said:
I still don't understand why people let PayPal connect to their bank account but are paranoid about eBay do the same thing.
I don't get it, either. Do people think eBay is just going to take money out of their accounts? What's the upside for eBay? People would certainly notice that, and there are probably more than just a few lawyers who would be happy to dip into eBay's deep pockets with a lawsuit that demonstrated theft from their clients' accounts.
Comments
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/labels-packaging-tips/buying-printing-shipping-labels?id=4157&st=3&pos=4&query=Printing and voiding shipping labels&intent=payment source for eBay shipping labels&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1118
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
IMO, the managed payment system is going to bite everyone in the ass in the end. Don't think for one second that ebay does ANYTHING to benefit ANYONE but themselves.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
The numbers are all in earlier posts. I didn't know that you wanted me to go through them all again.
There are only TWO possible coin rates. [There is a separate, cheaper, bullion rate] You either pay 8.5% +30 cents if you have a store or 12.35% + 30 cents if you don't have a store. Period. That rate applies to the first $4000 of the sale for the store or the first $7500 if you don't have a store. On a $13,000 coin, you would have to be an idiot to not have a store, so let's stick to that rate.
Now, you could CHOOSE to pay for promotion or listing enhancements or donate proceeds to charity and you can probably make your total costs over 100% of the sale price. But the ONLY mandatory charge is the 8.5% + 30 cents
On a $2 item, 8.5% + 30 cents is 47 cents so then your total fees are 23.5%. But for a $13,000 coin the fees are 8.5%+30cents on the first $4000 of the sale and 2.35% of the $9000. That makes the total eBay fees charged on the $13,000 coin equal to $551.80 which is 4.2%
So, big or little dealer, your cost to sell a $13,000 coin is 4.2%. If you'd like to add the store fees to that, add another $30 which is $581.80 which is 4.5%
If you insist on not having a store, you would pay 12.35%+30 cents on the first $7000 and 7% on the amount over $7000. That makes the non-store costs = $1284.80 which is 9.88%
In the words of the legendary @MasonG it's not rocket surgery or (@Mfeld) brain science.
All the fees are laid out, by category here (no store):
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/selling-fees?id=4822
and here (store):
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-fees/store-fees?id=4809
For a $13,000 bullion sale, the fee is 4.5%
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Yes eBay selling costs can be 19 pct. of sales I simply apply to markup equation accordingly.
The costs of a show can be much higher if bad selling show.
If one has many items one can get Gross Margin 50-100 pct or more these can be the rising tide that floats any beached boats lol.
Not on a $13000 coin it can't...unless you hire Justin Bieber to hand deliver it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
eBay does not provide fee breakdown?
Sure they do.
I think eBay should let seller to choose either bank or Paypal.
Paypal will lose a lot of business which is bad for my pypl stock.
Any seller that wants to have PayPal hold their money instead of their bank can transfer their money from their bank to their PayPal account.
The worst was the rollout.
I felt like I was in a "Hostage" situation with zero control of my business on eBay.
A horrible introduction to the dreaded Managed Payments.
Went very smoothly for me. No problem. Works magnificently.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Paypal only loses business if buyers choose to not use it to pay. The only change is that buyers are not held hostage by eBay/ paypal and forced to use it.
Remember when people complained about paypal/ eBay holding them hostage? I do.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Same thing here, pretty much. Aside from an initial hiccup when eBay had trouble confirming my bank account (possibly because it wasn't on their list), everything has worked fine.
and the loss of email contacts with buyers ....... not worth the percentage saved.
The COST of acquiring new customers just went up big time
That contact was lost before managed payments was available to sellers in the coins category.
You are wrong as the PayPal payment had the email contact this year up until I was forced to do harm to my business by eBay
I got that....no problem printing labels but how can I change the billing to managed payments from PayPal
BTW...thanks for your help
Are you sure?
May 22, 2018:
May 23, 2018:
Note that the email address of the buyer was provided on May 22 and it was not provided on May 23. But hey- maybe you're special and you got that contact info longer than other people?
The instructions are in that document to change the payments. When you go to print the label, there's a button to select the payment source.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Actually, I know what @ErrorsOnCoins on coins is talking about. I could directly email customers through PayPal. The email address wasn't visible, but if I replied to the payment verification it went to the customer directly.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I think you mean right up until ebay stopped your doing harm to THEIR business.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Ok- fair enough. I was understanding him to mean that PayPal provided the buyer's email address in the payment notice.
About $8 in taxes for what? Are they collecting sales tax from the seller instead of the buyer?
No. They collect sales tax from the buyer but they do provide an accounting to the seller of all fees including taxes, VAT, import duties, etc.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
THIS.
BUT long term, because I put all of my inventory on eBay and if I grow my outside of eBay business significantly, I would thus be putting more inventory on eBay making them more in the long run.
I must be in the minority , becuase I like it. I was skeptical at first, as I merely hate change.
But in all honesty, been easy and straight forward. I dont have to worry about remembering to transfer funds over from paypal during the appropriate times, it auto does it on tuesday, usually in bank wed.
I dont know about you, but prices realized on ebay are off the charts, lots better that I can get from the cheap as customers I have locally.
I love it also.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Keep in mind that it remains to be seen if Ebay, as PP was doing, will include these items in the gross income reported on the end of the year 1099. Likely so since they are reporting them to you now as income with each sale. Would not hurt to have a record of these items so that you know your actual gross income from ebay sales and can prove the difference between the two gross incomes in the event of an IRS audit.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
for those who miss having paypal provide them the buyer's email address (they stopped doing this long ago) the managed payment purchase details (click on order number) provides you the buyer's phone number. Text away.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
So do you believe that eBay acts differently and has different motivations as compared to PayPal?
You mean "always free" PayPal isn't a charity?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
No. What I mean is that eBay will eventually take more and more and their requirements will become more onerous. Fees will continue to increase and you can only up charge your buyers so much before they bail.
I’m all for capitalism, but I’m tired of people continually dipping into my pockets.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
Actually, this works both ways. eBay can only up charge their customers (ME!) so much. Why are eBay fees not double what they currently are? Why are the managed payment fees not HIGHER than they were in the PayPal days? Why weren't PayPal fees double the 2.9%?
You are entitled to your paranoia. But it may well be nothing but misplaced paranoia.
At least for now, you might actually give eBay credit for saving you money that you were giving to PayPal.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Fifteen years ago, a 1 oz bubble envelope was 37 cents at the post office. Now, it's ten times as much. Everybody wants more.
Including every person who posts on here.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Yeah, but that's different.
People dipping into your pockets is an "ism" but it's not capitalism.
You'll be very successful if you can somehow convince eBay of this.
I have no problem with managed payments. Haven’t had any issues.
As far as collecting email addresses from PayPal, I never really did it anyway. I put a business card in every package with my website and other contact info. I figure if people want to hear from me they’ll sign up for my email list or follow me on social media. Or just call. Im probably missing out on business but don’t like adding to the spam people already deal with.
My Ebay Store
I do the same. I used to send them an email also with shipping notification and my contact info. But now I don't do that, just the note in the package.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
According to the managed payments system, my selling costs are up 6.1% points compared to the prior time period without the system. Note: that is percentage points, not percent. Which is closer to a 40% increase in costs.
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
This is a meaningless number without specifics. Ebay managed payments is cheaper than ebay/PayPal. Total costs can include things like postage, monthly subscriptions, import duties, sales tax.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Well, I have apparently been dodging bullets for quite a while, but eventually one found me. I just tried to list an item and was told that I must sign up for managed payments, and that all transactions must be through my bank account. I'm not at all interested in doing this, so after 23 years of selling on eBay, the party is over. Guess smalltime sellers like me were the last to fall.
So I know BST is good for many things, but what other auction sites are you all using now that eBay is defunct?
http://macrocoins.com
Great Collections and DLRC for me.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Ebay is a better and safer place to sell and to buy than it has ever been.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I still don't understand why people let PayPal connect to their bank account but are paranoid about eBay do the same thing.
Just get a second checking count at your current bank and connect to that. Keep no money in it. It's really not that big of a deal.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf
I still don't understand why people let PayPal connect to their bank account but are paranoid about eBay do the same thing.
Just get a second checking count at your current bank and connect to that. Keep no money in it. It's really not that big of a deal.
While I'm still less than satisfied with Ebay, things change beyond our control and I agree with jmlanzaf(this time), I didn't trust paypal so I got a separate account with very little funds kept in it for paypal and now use it for both paypal and ebay. Be sure NOT to get a guaranteed account overdraft protection on the new account.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
toggle switch on the pay for shipping page. Once I switched it, it stayed switched.
I don't get it, either. Do people think eBay is just going to take money out of their accounts? What's the upside for eBay? People would certainly notice that, and there are probably more than just a few lawyers who would be happy to dip into eBay's deep pockets with a lawsuit that demonstrated theft from their clients' accounts.