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The Branch Mint 3 cent silver

CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 15, 2021 5:42AM in U.S. Coin Forum

The 3 cent series was a fairly long lived 1851-1873 with silver overlapping the redesigned nickel 1865-1889 making it an almost 40 run as a denomination. It appears the government tried to make it a thing with mixed success. I even find that they used three different metal compositions over that time fascinating form 75% silver(1851-53) to 90% coin silver (54-73) to CN (75%copper-25% nickel)

My question to the historians is it was clearly authorized for the branch mint to make minors with the prolific out of half dimes, dimes and quarters made at the New Orleans mint up until the Civil War but does anyone know why the trimes were one and done after their inaugural year? My current example out of the half dozen I have owed since a kid. It always grabbed my attention even as a kid reading the red book.



Angle shot that shows the brown toning turning translucent coppery with light

Comments

  • planetsteveplanetsteve Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭✭

    Great post and great question. Like you, I think it's a fascinating government effort with mini-mysteries like composition changes and this New Orleans one-off. The way the O mint mark sits on this denomination, seemingly as an element of the design, makes this coin look like something else. Nice coin! I gotta find one.

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I should have done a GTG. good luck with this series :D

  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,645 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm guessing the New Orleans silver depositors simply didn't want the 3c pieces, after the initial order in 1851. Same thing happens in Philadelphia, after the first wave the mintages fall sharply.

    Congress got one thing right, which was debasing the coin. Had this coin been full weight they would have all been melted immediately and it would be much scarcer today.

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    It always cost most money to make coins at the New Orleans Mint than it did at the Philadelphia facility. Perhaps the mint officials decided that they could make enough Three Cent Silver coins at Philadelphia to satisfy the demand. Perhaps it was cheaper to make them in Philadelphia and ship them around the country than make them at the "O Mint."

    I too have long been fascinated by the 1851-O trime and have owned a couple of them as a collector. My first one was graded Fine, but probably graded VF. It had a weakly struck date. Here is the piece that is now in my collection.

    I suspect you’re right about demand vs supply
    MS63 ?

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinosaurus said:
    I'm guessing the New Orleans silver depositors simply didn't want the 3c pieces, after the initial order in 1851. Same thing happens in Philadelphia, after the first wave the mintages fall sharply.

    Congress got one thing right, which was debasing the coin. Had this coin been full weight they would have all been melted immediately and it would be much scarcer today.

    Interesting point about the debasing but the 75% silver weighs .8 grams so that is .6 grams of silver vs the type 2 which is .75 grams of 90% silver which is .675 grams of silver.

    So while the rest of the coinage was having their weights reduced made famous by the arrows by the date of 1853+, the mint actually added content to the trime if only .075 grams. But to your point the type 2 and 3 times are much scarcer

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coins!

    I've always been confused about the Branch Mint (BM) designations TPGs place on some coins and not others.

    Are all New Orleans coins "BM" coins? Or only some, or none?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2021 8:39AM

    @Zoins said:
    Nice coins!

    I've always been confused about the Branch Mint (BM) designations TPGs place on some coins and not others.

    Are all New Orleans coins "BM" coins? Or only some, or none?

    I finally looked it up! PCGS uses "BM" only for proof coins before 1968. Circulation coins and those struck after 1968 aren't included.

    https://www.pcgs.com/news/what-does-the-pcgs-bm-grade-designation-mean

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    BM only means a branch of the central division being the headquarters which is in Philadelphia. They are branches off the central tree.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2021 8:43AM

    @Crypto said:
    BM only means a branch of the central division being the headquarters which is in Philadelphia. They are branches off the central tree.

    Generally "Branch Mint" means any mint which is a branch of the Philadelphia Mint, but I was confused by why PCGS only had "BM" for some coins and not others from the same mint. It turns out, it's only used for proof coins.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,067 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Nice coins!

    I've always been confused about the Branch Mint (BM) designations TPGs place on some coins and not others.

    Are all New Orleans coins "BM" coins? Or only some, or none?

    As Roger Burdette explained to me as he was reviewing the article that Dan Owens and I wrote about the never-struck 1873-S Seated Liberty Dollars, the non-Philadelphia Mints established in 1838, 1854 and 1870 were officially called "Branch Mints," so that San Francisco was "United States Branch Mint, San Francisco," but the Mint Act of 1873 eliminated that title and it became the "United States Mint (at) San Francisco."

    That said, common usage when I started collecting coins (slightly later than 1873) was to call everything not Philadelphia a branch mint. The TPG's can use that term or not as they choose.

    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," due out late 2025.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2021 9:40AM

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Zoins said:
    Nice coins!

    I've always been confused about the Branch Mint (BM) designations TPGs place on some coins and not others.

    Are all New Orleans coins "BM" coins? Or only some, or none?

    As Roger Burdette explained to me as he was reviewing the article that Dan Owens and I wrote about the never-struck 1873-S Seated Liberty Dollars, the non-Philadelphia Mints established in 1838, 1854 and 1870 were officially called "Branch Mints," so that San Francisco was "United States Branch Mint, San Francisco," but the Mint Act of 1873 eliminated that title and it became the "United States Mint (at) San Francisco."

    That said, common usage when I started collecting coins (slightly later than 1873) was to call everything not Philadelphia a branch mint. The TPG's can use that term or not as they choose.

    Good info. They were Branch Mints because they were called that by Congress. Here's an act from July 4 during the Civil War.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 33,067 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's a Sept. 3, 1872 newspaper clipping from Carson City:

    Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," due out late 2025.
  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 6,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2021 10:36AM

    I wonder if the change in silver content might explain why I couldn’t find any colorful type 1 silver trimes to match my type 3 for my circulated type set? Here’s my type 3 which I’ve had for a very long time

    I was looking for quite a while for a similarly toned type 1 but couldn’t find one I liked, so I just recently purchased this one. I figured the New Orleans mint Mark made it just as cool looking as my toned type 3. I haven’t had time to photograph it properly yet, these are the auction pictures.

    Mr_Spud

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,016 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It''s been my experience that the Type I trimes are prone to unattractive spots and toning because of their 75% silver, 25% composition. The Type II's became "key type coins" back in the 1970s when someone noticed that the mintage was limited. A lot of those coins have been dipped over the years which did away with a lot of toning. They were also issued prior to the Civil War which met that they circulated for a while before the Civil War hoarding kicked in. The Type III trimes were mostly saved by collectors or hoarders. That left room for more Mint State coins and more toned pieces.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 6,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2021 10:12AM

    @BillJones said:
    It''s been my experience that the Type I trimes are prone to unattractive spots and toning because of their 75% silver, 25% composition. The Type II's became "key type coins" back in the 1970s when someone noticed that the mintage was limited. A lot of those coins have been dipped over the years which did away with a lot of toning. They were also issued prior to the Civil War which met that they circulated for a while before the Civil War hoarding kicked in. The Type III trimes were mostly saved by collectors or hoarders. That left room for more Mint State coins and more toned pieces.

    Thanks, that makes total sense, and also helps me understand why I can’t find a circulated type 2 that I like either

    Mr_Spud

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2021 2:41PM

    In large part they didn't need the branch mint capacity for the trimes.

    The entirety of the 11.4m minted in 1853 was minted in Philly from January 12th through March 31st.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
    Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,301 ✭✭✭✭✭





    I have 2 of these. I don't have an answer to Crypto's original question, either. I think the "O" can just as easily stand for Orphan

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